sd cartridge for 7800?

[Jinks]

 

No list, no pre-orders, proof that it can be done at the moment. Which is something that Bob and RevEng will surely appreciate, even if I leave it in prototype stage. Some wicked stuff already built in.

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/266480-new-atari-console-that-ataribox/page-585?do=findComment&comment=4180647

 

Right on! That is the way to do it! Pre-orders suck! I like that on ur phone looks cool. I would just press the cheat button to really amp up the gamez. Edited December 20, 2018 by Jinks

[Andromeda Stardust]

will it be available for purchase befor most of us die? The XM took a decade and still ain't out.

[Shawn]

Have a bunch of savekeys now. CPUWIZ sent me 20 pcbs for them at at Xmas. $10 each. You pick the color of heat shrink from black, yellow, red or blue. Let me know if you want the shrink up on the edge of the connector like the yellow one or just over the pcb like the blue and black ones in the picture.

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I'll take a purple one!!! J/K...red please?

[Shawn]

I'll take a purple one!!! J/K...red please?

 

Sure thing. Shoot me a PM with your details

[+groundtrooper]

PM sent.

[bszarek001]

Forgive me, I've not been 100% invested in the boards at the moment, since my employer blocks the AA forums (DAMN YOU!). Anyway, I know there has been much desire over the possibility of the Harmony Concerto, and I see a few Betas out there. I also read that there are no preorders, etc. Does anyone have a definitive date of release, or if it is a self build, where to get the parts? Pardon my ignorance if already mentioned somewhere else. Thanks!

[Shawn]

Forgive me, I've not been 100% invested in the boards at the moment, since my employer blocks the AA forums (DAMN YOU!). Anyway, I know there has been much desire over the possibility of the Harmony Concerto, and I see a few Betas out there. I also read that there are no preorders, etc. Does anyone have a definitive date of release, or if it is a self build, where to get the parts? Pardon my ignorance if already mentioned somewhere else. Thanks!

 

There is no release date and there is no DIY build with parts to buy.

[John Stamos Mullet]

Forgive me, I've not been 100% invested in the boards at the moment, since my employer blocks the AA forums (DAMN YOU!). Anyway, I know there has been much desire over the possibility of the Harmony Concerto, and I see a few Betas out there. I also read that there are no preorders, etc. Does anyone have a definitive date of release, or if it is a self build, where to get the parts? Pardon my ignorance if already mentioned somewhere else. Thanks!

The betas that were released were a WIP and had some problems working on a few revisions of the 7800 console.

 

Batari, the guy who made them, has been radio silent/MIA on the Concerto for like 2 years now.

[bszarek001]

The betas that were released were a WIP and had some problems working on a few revisions of the 7800 console.

 

Batari, the guy who made them, has been radio silent/MIA on the Concerto for like 2 years now.

That's unfortunate. If he's not going to be able to produce them, he should release the schematics to someone who can build them. I'm sure there's another willing to pick it up!

[+-^CrossBow^-]

That's unfortunate. If he's not going to be able to produce them, he should release the schematics to someone who can build them. I'm sure there's another willing to pick it up!

 

The main issue is that Batari didn't want to release a product unless it could be made to work on most of the 7800s. I don't know how many of the beta versions were released and sold vs them working but it wasn't a high enough percentage for Batari to be willing to release any details about it.

 

Saint who created the Lynx SD cart has also decided to look into the 7800 once his Jag SD cart project is done. The only other cartridge flash option is the Mateos 16 in 1, but I believe he too has gone silent recently over the summer.

[SainT]

JagSD is getting close to completion now (CD games now booting, final PCB's in my hands), so sights are moving to the 7800 before long. I have a 7800 on the shelf next to me. It taunts me daily.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

JagSD is getting close to completion now (CD games now booting, final PCB's in my hands), so sights are moving to the 7800 before long. I have a 7800 on the shelf next to me. It taunts me daily.

 

Just watch out for the timing issues between all the variants...ugh. I think I see capacitor 64 and the rest of that additional timing circuit present more often than not.

[bszarek001]

JagSD is getting close to completion now (CD games now booting, final PCB's in my hands), so sights are moving to the 7800 before long. I have a 7800 on the shelf next to me. It taunts me daily.

 

I can't wait! I am considering picking up the Lynx SD cart as well. Some of the games are just so damn expensive, and for the most part, I just want to play the games (even though I am a collector). My concern is that I have a Lynx I and am concerned about damaging the cart if/when I have to pull the thing out.

 

I may have to pick up a Lynx II and McWill one of those. Less worry about the carts and tearing off paint every time I open the damn cart door.

[Greg2600]

Weren't the Concerto's beta issues tied to 2600 games though? That seemed like the major complaint, and it wasn't an overwhelming faction either.

 

There's no concern with damaging the Lynx, though I'd just leave the Lynx SD in there. It plays every game! McWill if you can afford it, is a must!

 

That said, I think SainT has been stellar with his offerings so far and I'd be excited about ANY new (old) system he tackles. Obv 7800 even moreso as there's no alternative at this point. I look forward to see what types of features he can get to work! Gave saving for 2600/7800 would be quite interesting, as that's only technically available on the AtGames Flashback 8/9. I would figure he'd have enough hardware to cover what seems like ever increasing ROM sizes (Rikki & Vikki is 512KB with 256KB audio), while compatibility with the 7800XM should be trivial. Then you have the audio (yikes). Can he "emulate" the POKEY chip somehow? How about the new BupBoop audio from Rikki & Vikki?

Edited February 1, 2019 by Greg2600

[+DrVenkman]

Weren't the Concerto's beta issues tied to 2600 games though? That seemed like the major complaint, and it wasn't an overwhelming faction

Pretty sure there are folks with beta Concertos that had issues with POKEY being not recognized in some cases but others worked fine, some folks had some 7800 roms that crashed, etc. In other words, it wasn’t just an issue with 2600 rom compatibility.

 

Given Curt’s own issues with XM stability across various 7800 models (still no XM’s in users hands, you’ll note) this is not a trivial problem.

[John Stamos Mullet]

Pretty sure there are folks with beta Concertos that had issues with POKEY being not recognized in some cases but others worked fine, some folks had some 7800 roms that crashed, etc. In other words, it wasn’t just an issue with 2600 rom compatibility.

 

Given Curt’s own issues with XM stability across various 7800 models (still no XM’s in users hands, you’ll note) this is not a trivial problem.

I had one - sold it recently.

 

It worked with almost all of the commercially released 7800 games I tried, but depending on which 7800 I used it on, it would crash just after the BIOS/Title screen on Midnight Mutants, Basketbrawl, Alien Brigade, Fatal Run, and Motor Psycho.

 

If a POKEY was installed, Pokey sound worked on Commando and Ballblazer, but Beef Drop would randomly crash, and some other Homebrews that were supposed to have POKEY had no sound. Also - when a POKEY was installed, other non-pokey games crashed or glitched, most notably, Ninja Golf and Food Fight.

 

2600 games ran fine, but if you went from loading a 7800 game to loading a 2600 game, most times you would get a black screen on the first try and you would have to restart and try it again.

[SainT]

Weren't the Concerto's beta issues tied to 2600 games though? That seemed like the major complaint, and it wasn't an overwhelming faction either.

 

There's no concern with damaging the Lynx, though I'd just leave the Lynx SD in there. It plays every game! McWill if you can afford it, is a must!

 

That said, I think SainT has been stellar with his offerings so far and I'd be excited about ANY new (old) system he tackles. Obv 7800 even moreso as there's no alternative at this point. I look forward to see what types of features he can get to work! Gave saving for 2600/7800 would be quite interesting, as that's only technically available on the AtGames Flashback 8/9. I would figure he'd have enough hardware to cover what seems like ever increasing ROM sizes (Rikki & Vikki is 512KB with 256KB audio), while compatibility with the 7800XM should be trivial. Then you have the audio (yikes). Can he "emulate" the POKEY chip somehow? How about the new BupBoop audio from Rikki & Vikki?

 

Whether you can do save states etc depends a lot on how the hardware and cart port are setup -- not sure if the Flashback is just an emulator product like the newer "mini" stuff.

 

There are IP cores for the POKEY around, so, yes, I expect to include a version of that.

[SainT]

I had one - sold it recently.

 

It worked with almost all of the commercially released 7800 games I tried, but depending on which 7800 I used it on, it would crash just after the BIOS/Title screen on Midnight Mutants, Basketbrawl, Alien Brigade, Fatal Run, and Motor Psycho.

 

If a POKEY was installed, Pokey sound worked on Commando and Ballblazer, but Beef Drop would randomly crash, and some other Homebrews that were supposed to have POKEY had no sound. Also - when a POKEY was installed, other non-pokey games crashed or glitched, most notably, Ninja Golf and Food Fight.

 

2600 games ran fine, but if you went from loading a 7800 game to loading a 2600 game, most times you would get a black screen on the first try and you would have to restart and try it again.

 

It will be very interesting to find out. I'm not sure what the issues are with timing, etc, especially as I'd just basically hook up SRAM in place of the ROM and there basically is no timing. It just does what its told, as a ROM would do. The only possible issues you sometimes get in that case is the SRAM being too "fast" and actually reacting to bus glitches which the original ROMs would not be quick enough to deal with. Either way, you can scope those out, see what's happening, and work-around it.

 

I'm feeling optimistic at the moment. If I can get the Jaguar to comply, then I feel I can tackle almost anything.

[+KylJoy]

Pretty sure there are folks with beta Concertos that had issues with POKEY being not recognized in some cases but others worked fine, some folks had some 7800 roms that crashed, etc. In other words, it wasn’t just an issue with 2600 rom compatibility.

 

Given Curt’s own issues with XM stability across various 7800 models (still no XM’s in users hands, you’ll note) this is not a trivial problem.

 

I have two pokeys and they are different. One works in the SD cart and the other does not. I sent the info to Batari about it but he was probably already aware of it.

[Osgeld]

 

It will be very interesting to find out. I'm not sure what the issues are with timing, etc, especially as I'd just basically hook up SRAM in place of the ROM and there basically is no timing. It just does what its told, as a ROM would do. The only possible issues you sometimes get in that case is the SRAM being too "fast" and actually reacting to bus glitches which the original ROMs would not be quick enough to deal with. Either way, you can scope those out, see what's happening, and work-around it.

 

I'm feeling optimistic at the moment. If I can get the Jaguar to comply, then I feel I can tackle almost anything.

 

its kind of flakey with roms as well , I can take a home made cart with a game on it and have it work on one machine but not another of a different revision

[SainT]

its kind of flakey with roms as well , I can take a home made cart with a game on it and have it work on one machine but not another of a different revision

 

Assuming official carts work on all systems, this sounds very likely to be ROM speed issues. This is the same sort of behaviour you see putting fast EPROMS into an old revision ST for a TOS upgrades. Dodgy signal integrity causes all sorts of problems when you're using fast (like 60-70ns) EPROMS when the original system had 200ns. Glitches on the address or data bus which were effectively ignored by the slower ROM would actually be honoured with faster ROMS and cause incorrect data to be read.

[+Mitch]

Yes, using old slow EPROMs definitely makes life easier.

 

There are two revisions you will find in NTSC 7800s. Or three if you count the original.

 

Mitch

[RAShepherd]

Hi everybody,

 

I don't look thru these boards as often as I should but it's always great to see people developing hardware add-ons whether it gets to product stage or not.

The act of even trying to make some of this stuff increases knowledge in the community as to what works and what doesn't on some VERY old hardware. The oldest stuff I've seen is some extremely dedicated people at Bletchley park in England (https://bletchleypark.org.uk/) working on enigma code-breaking Bombe machines and the mighty Colossus last year when I visited. Colossus actually has valves in it! 100s if not 1000s!. Thank God for them and the peeps on here because they are keeping knowledge alive.

 

Back to 7800, Saint, I bought yer Lynx SD, I'll buy yer Jaguar SD solution and if you get there I'll buy yer 7800 SD too. But a thought crosses my mind... Now Atgames have made flashbacks with an SD card slot, couldn't they make a 7800 flashback with an SD card slot?

 

If that's too Niche, surely just next years model could take 7800 ROMS on the SD card as well as the 2600 ROMs and use a 7800 emulator as well as Stella. Of course this is all stuff the nuTARI could have done themselves years ago, but hey ho....

 

Any thoughts on Flashback 10 with SD 7800 capability? :-)

[Shawn]

Assuming official carts work on all systems, this sounds very likely to be ROM speed issues. This is the same sort of behaviour you see putting fast EPROMS into an old revision ST for a TOS upgrades. Dodgy signal integrity causes all sorts of problems when you're using fast (like 60-70ns) EPROMS when the original system had 200ns. Glitches on the address or data bus which were effectively ignored by the slower ROM would actually be honoured with faster ROMS and cause incorrect data to be read.

 

PLD speeds and flavors make a difference with compatibility also. 22v10b works on everything where as 22v10a, c & d only work on most 7800 systems. Lattice being the go to brand as well.