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wayne253

Commodore 1084s-P semi-newb question

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Hey Atari amigos

 

Just snagged an old Commodore 1084s from the UK for a good deal. Looking to use it for some classic gaming; hooking my anything from my NES to my Dreamcast for a small gaming corner in my house.

 

Would this monitor convert to NTSC easily or do I need to get something like SCART adapters. Anyone with experience using this particular monitor?

 

This is the one I bought.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/311167405499?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

 

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YMMV but my experience is that a PAL 1084 displays NTSC composite video only in greyscale. Sync tends not to be an issue, just lack of colour.

 

SCART would not fix NTSC/PAL, but indeed you've got two DIN sockets on the back of which one is TTL RGB (think CGA, BBC Micro and loads more) and the other is linear, analog RGB. For any device that outputs analog RGB and you would have a ready-made SCART cable, you need a custom reverse adapter. As you see, there is a plastic placeholder for a SCART connector on the back side, some 1084 models had it installed instead of one of the DIN sockets but I don't know if it is feasible to install a SCART socket.

 

Also it might be worth repeating that SCART is a connector, not a video mode. It can carry composite video, plus S-Video or analog RGB, as well as stereo audio in and out and some more obscure signals for communication with VCRs. It means just because a cable ends in a SCART connector, it doesn't mean you get a certain video signal without investigating how the cable is wired or which mode the TV is switched to view the picture.

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Okay. Sounds like I could use one of the din connections to get a good rgb display. Which means I need a means to connect those to my systemms by some means. I'm open to some quick ideas

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Which systems do you own that output RGB? Do you solder? Do you already have some cables? One "relatively" easy way would to obtain some SCART extention cable (female - male jack) if those exist, or perhaps an expansion box. You would need to do some gutting, and solder up a 6 or if it is 8 pin DIN (both are present on the monitor, one if for TTL and the other for analog but I'll leave it as an exercise to look up which is which) with a bit of cable to the corresponding R, G, B, sync pins plus ground of course. While you're onto it, you might want to connect the composite video in and audio in pins to RCA connectors so you could use this Frankenstein adapter to hook up any device that may originally have come with a SCART connector to the 1084.

 

It is possible that similar monsters already exist ready made, but the DIN connection might need to be checked.

 

Of course you could as well make several custom cables for each system, but it would involve more work for the same net result. The third idea would to actually look up if you can do internal mods on the monitor, but it might take more expertise and be dangerous to fool around even with the monitor safely discharged first.

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PAL/NTSC isn't an issue if you're using RGB. The lost colour problem occurs when a monitor expects the colour carrier to match it's native system, and that only applies when using Composite or Chroma+Luma inputs.

 

SCART can carry RGB as well as the other 2 mentioned signals, so you should check what you're dealing with there before making any assumptions to the device capabilities.

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I'm not the best at soldering. I wonder if I can get a composite to RGB (or a breakout box to hook this up) or gut the PAL circuit and find a suitable NTSC that'll fit...which also means gutting out the power supply since it's 240v....what a pain. Starting to feel like I bit off more than I could chew.

Edited by wayne253

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Those passive SCART breakout plugs will supply the relevant signal, but only if it exists from the source device, ie there's no tricks going on inside to convert signals.

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Exactly. I take it you live in the US or another NTSC region? In that case, wouldn't most of your video cables be of other types than the ones ending with a SCART connector?

 

If it was me, I'd aim at connecting devices that already output RGB, as I have understood it is not too common to find RGB monitors over there. The devices that output NTSC composite or S-Video perhaps can be connected to another display. At a later stage you can investigate about devices that convert NTSC composite video to PAL or even RGB but the results may vary depending on your expectations on image quality, clipping, colours, resolution, lag and so on. Also remember that if you import any PAL consoles or computers, you can connect their composite video directly to the 1084, which may be valuable.

 

You didn't yet list which systems you own or would like to connect, which makes most of this discussion general, on the verge of hypothetical in trying to find solutions.

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Oh okay, systems I own

 

NES

SNES

Master System

Genesis model 1 (Sega CD included)

Saturn

Turbo Duo

Dreamcast

PS1

PS2

Intellivision

 

looking to reacquire an Atari XL

Commodore 64

and an Amiga (whether it be 500 or 1200)

maybe a Colecovision since the new expansion and homebrews look really good.

Edited by wayne253
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Thanks!

 

The Intellivision and Colecovision natively only do RF, although there may be internal modifications to get other video output. Since the 1084 doesn't have a tuner, you would need to connect those to a TV until you had modifications performed. Several of the other systems of course also do RF, but it is not meaningful for this discussion.

 

As far as I understand, the NES needs an internal mod to output RGB so in the native edition you get composite video. The same applies to the C64 and I believe the Atari XL series; you only get NTSC composite or S-Video, so those three might not be usable on your PAL 1084.

 

SNES, SMS, Genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast, PS1, PS2, Amiga models and I presume the Turbo Duo should all be capable of RGB with the right cables, or perhaps it doesn't always apply to US sold units? However I don't know which leads those usually end with, for European consoles they'd probably be SCART which brings us back to the adapter idea above.

 

It means in theory you have 8 and might purchase a ninth system that all are capable of RGB. One of your existing and two of your forthcoming purchases will be of the composite video category, and another 1+1 consoles output RF before modifying them.

 

As you don't already own a C64, may I suggest you import a PAL one? Quite a lot of games and in particular modern demo stuff are made for PAL, so it wouldn't be as bad as it sounds. I don't know how much differences there are on the Atari 8-bit computer models, but the availibility of PAL models is rather low so not as obvious to import one just to match your 1084.

 

Of course, you might find a video converter or even another (NTSC) monitor to go next to the 1084, e.g. some Sony model so if space permits, you could have two monitors put into duty and use them as fits best.

 

Oh yes, you mentioned the 240V above. I suppose you've got or planned to use a step-up converter for the voltage? Some computer power supplies can be switchable between 115-120V and 230-240V but without studying the schematics - and as each 1084 tends to be slightly different from the other, one would need to be sure you study the right schematics - I don't know if they're easily servicable into 115V input.

Edited by carlsson

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