Male Privelage in Gaming

[Reaperman]

I suppose at the end of the day, women are broadly treated a bit differently in online gaming. Now I'm not saying I'm seeing a problem that needs any kind of heavy-handed 'fixing,' and generally think it's all a little silly to bring up. But since it has been, I suppose I can acknowledge it.

 

I see it show itself most readily in the 'mobbing' of anything vaguely female online in places males tend to congregate in superior numbers. Not necessarily just in gaming, but we're now doing that in larger groups of strangers than we previously have been. It was really obvious the few times I checked out PSN home, but I've also seen similar in html chat back in the 90's, or heck, every so often AA even seems to pick up a hint of slobbing over members that wander in with 'non-traditional' equipment. It's the kind of thing that may or may not tend to get out of control, depending on environment, but there is a huge potential for it to get scary.

 

As far as the more obviously mean-spirited items brought up in this video, people don't like each other online. Not like they do person to person. Some folks will do and say just about anything online that they think will get under somebody else's skin, and it doesn't take too many of those kinds of folks to make somebody feel pretty miserable. I'm sure we've all been on the receiving end of that, though in a mostly male environment, it makes sense that it's not about us having man-bits.

[Austin]

...people don't like each other online. Not like they do person to person. Some folks will do and say just about anything online that they think will get under somebody else's skin, and it doesn't take too many of those kinds of folks to make somebody feel pretty miserable. I'm sure we've all been on the receiving end of that, though in a mostly male environment, it makes sense that it's not about us having man-bits.

 

Somewhat related, I started playing Quake Live again over the weekend. Being an old Quake player from the mid '90s, it felt good to get back in the action, trolls and all. It was all too common to see people step into the arena this weekend spamming quotes like, "I AM YOUR GOD, BOW DOWN TO ME" or "u suck, f*@@ots, bl@w m3 hArd". Thinking about it now, things really haven't changed since when I started in the competitive online gaming scene in the '90's. Give a random player some anonymity online and it's like opening Pandora's Box. It doesn't matter whether you are male or female, and there are a lot of reasons why these people are acting the way they do. It wasn't any different then, it's not any different now, and I don't expect that to change as the years go on.

[+Random Terrain]

Give a random player some anonymity online and it's like opening Pandora's Box. It doesn't matter whether you are male or female, and there are a lot of reasons why these people are acting the way they do.

Anonymity can magnify it, but when I was in school up and down the eastern side of the USA, before the Internet existed, it seemed like most kids were A-holes in person to your face. Most of them seemed to hate their parents and hate their lives, so a lot of kids took it out on a lot of other kids. Then they grew up to become adult A-holes who hate their lives even more and they raise their own A-hole kids who hate their lives and you end up with a bunch of old and young A-holes on the Internet who get even worse when anonymity is involved. Then we have Google trying to make everyone use their real names with Google+, but that hasn't seemed to tone down the horrible comments that people make, so I don't know what to think.

[Tickled_Pink]

 

4. I could openly admit that I do not play games, yet people will be willing to hand me thousands of dollars just to hear my opinions on them.

 

 

 

^^^^

This.

 

It makes a bit of a mockery of crowdfunding. However, the FF site already has a decent sized following. Raising this kind of money from a large number of people who already know who you are and think the same way as you isn't difficult.

 

If people think you're Jesus they'll give you anything in he hope you'll do magic tricks.

[FastRobPlus]

Anonymity can magnify it, but when I was in school up and down the eastern side of the USA, before the Internet existed, it seemed like most kids were A-holes in person to your face. Most of them seemed to hate their parents and hate their lives, so a lot of kids took it out on a lot of other kids. Then they grew up to become adult A-holes who hate their lives even more and they raise their own A-hole kids who hate their lives and you end up with a bunch of old and young A-holes on the Internet who get even worse when anonymity is involved. Then we have Google trying to make everyone use their real names with Google+, but that hasn't seemed to tone down the horrible comments that people make, so I don't know what to think.

 

 

I agree. And I know it stuns a few people here, but to simplify the discussion:

 

The problem with Sarkesian and her ilk is that they are saying "Cyberbullying of women by men is a serious issue that male gamers must work together to address!"

while the more reasonable among have said and are still saying "Don't fragment the issue. Cyberbullying of people online is an serious issue that we should all (not just men or gamers) work together to fix."

 

 

Remember Dong Nguyen? He was a far more famous game developer than any of these women and he was also driven from the games industry (his words) due to a large number of death threats. This was in the news for a week or two but the threats were brushed aside as the action of internet trolls and thus an overreaction on Dong's part.

 

Why didn't everyone get just as angry about what was happening to this person? Was it inconvenient to hear that cyberbullies will bully men as readily as women? If he were to get a gender change, would he then be reasonably considered a victim?

[Andromeda Stardust]

And here's a thought ...

 

One of the games where abuse is commonplace is Forza. Players get irate if they're taken out by others during a race. A couple of times I've been taken out by someone but then been targeted by others because they thought I caused the crash. It's part and parcel of the game. You have to live with it. The usual abuse is along the lines of ... "Learn to f***ing drive!" It's a pretty generic suggestion to a male player.

Not a big deal really. I get "taken out" all the time in Mario Kart 7 & 8 online. Kinda glad Nintendo doesn't use headsets though...

 

 

 

 

I agree. And I know it stuns a few people here, but to simplify the discussion:

 

The problem with Sarkesian and her ilk is that they are saying "Cyberbullying of women by men is a serious issue that male gamers must work together to address!"

while the more reasonable among have said and are still saying "Don't fragment the issue. Cyberbullying of people online is an serious issue that we should all (not just men or gamers) work together to fix."

Agreed 100%. Another reason why I think the controlled atmosphere of Nintendo is a good idea, even if people hate that you can't truly communicate with other players.

 

My friend used to play Halo online back in the day with his Xbox. He said the majority of players online were prepubescent boys who were obviously too young to be playing M rated titles, and hurled insults and swears at everyone like there was no tomorrow. My friend got sick of it until he simply unplugged his headset.

 

https://feelsandreals.wordpress.com/2014/12/04/25-visible-benefits-of-gaming-while-female/

Nice list. It really makes a nice rebuttal to the "25 reasons to be a male gamer" video that Anita Sarkesian made. And it would not surprise me one bit, if I found out she had more males watching her videos than females. Obviously there's no real way to tell but I imagine the majority of female gamers don't really mind what Anita has to say, because they're having too much fun playing games to bother about online trolling. I could also be completely wrong on this count though.

Edited December 8, 2014 by stardust4ever

[Atariboy]

Not a big deal really. I get "taken out" all the time in Mario Kart 7 & 8 online. Kinda glad Nintendo doesn't use headsets though...

You do realize that unlike something like Forza where the point is to race clean, "taking out" others is a large part of what Mario Kart is all about? It's not a coincidence that those red shells fly out from your kart and spin opponents out when they strike.

 

lol

Edited December 10, 2014 by Atariboy

[godslabrat]

The "Women in Video Games" thing is as old as the industry itself. What I love about this topic is that it never really goes away, it just mutates every few years.

 

Phase 1: There aren't any girls in video games!

Response: Okay, well, let's start making games with characters like Samus Aran, Lara Croft, Sonja Blade, Chun Li....

 

Phase 2: There aren't any games made specifically for girls.

Response: Well, actually there are lots of games made specifically for girls. Barbie Horse Adventures comes to mind. Of course, that game sucks. Thing is, women who play video games are smart enough to play the good ones. Making a shit game and selling it to women benefits no one.

 

Phase 3: There ARE women in games, but they aren't representative of real women!! (Translation: there are lots of women in video games, but they're all prettier than I am, and that's a problem because reasons)

Response: Well, now in most games, you can actually design your own character, so if it doesn't meet your ideal, it's your deal.

 

Phase 4: Women in video games are treated badly by other gamers!

Response: Still in progress as of now, but the long and the short of it is... a lot of gamers are assholes. If they treat you badly, it's not because you're a woman, it's because they're assholes.

[Andromeda Stardust]

You do realize that unlike something like Forza where the point is to race clean, "taking out" others is a large part of what Mario Kart is all about? It's not a coincidence that those red shells fly out from your kart and spin opponents out when they strike.

 

lol

I take it in Forza, there's no Likatu to bail you out? Is it really "game over" if you crash? Lemme guess, you also race on an oval track? "Realistic" race/flight/sports simulators are boring IMO...

 

Sometimes though I wish I had a Blue Spiny, star, or triple red shells for those boring commutes when I'm stuck in rush hour traffic!

Edited December 10, 2014 by stardust4ever

[Reaperman]

 

The problem with Sarkesian and her ilk is that they are saying "Cyberbullying of women by men is a serious issue that male gamers must work together to address!"

while the more reasonable among have said and are still saying "Don't fragment the issue. Cyberbullying of people online is an serious issue that we should all (not just men or gamers) work together to fix."

 

 

Yeah, I think that's pretty much it. Online gaming isn't a great place for just about everybody, but we should really focus on how it treats women.

 

And this is why I play shmups, where the online bullying extends to entirely what one can fit into the highscore line. Oh, and a lot of them have female protagonists...or talking dolphins, so that's covered too.

[Metal Ghost]

http://ncase.me/polygons/

 

Great site dealing with diversity (in general....not necessarily in gaming).

[RARusk]

[Reaperman]

I never could figure out what all the gamergate fuss was/is about.

I tried pretty hard one day. Some poorly exposed nudes on neo-geo finally prompted me to google a few layers down, but I still couldn't figure out why anybody ever cared about any of it. Given the time that's passed, I'm also really surprised it hasn't blown over. Maybe it has--this is the only place I hear about it. Even the neo-geo thread on the subject has been dead for over a month, and nobody likes drama quite as much as they do.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Reaperman

[warmachine]

First realize that "harassment" and "threats" are extreme exaggerations used to motivate the beta orbiters to "save the damsels" from internet "mysogonysts".

 

Then, go to tumblr.

Look up these terms:

 

cis

problematic

ableism

fat shaming

otherkin

head mates

privilege

 

You will see what has infected gaming culture and journalism.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Everyone is a victim of cyber insults at some point or another. Learn to tune it out or get off the internet...

[warmachine]

Everyone is a victim of cyber insults at some point or another. Learn to tune it out or get off the internet...

Unfortunately, there are a new generation of liberal-arts college graduates entering the fields of journalism and entertainment,

whos sense of self worth is measured by how oppressed they are because victimhood is now a social currency.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Unfortunately, there are a new generation of liberal-arts college graduates entering the fields of journalism and entertainment,

whos sense of self worth is measured by how oppressed they are because victimhood is now a social currency.

I'm not shocked by anything I see posted online anymore. Go to any major news website (Yahoo is the worst) and read the comments. Nearly every article turns into a raging political, religious, or racially charged rant.

 

...

 

Which quickly degrades into name calling, F U returd, etc... Intelligent comments get down-voted and illogical or bigotrous stuff gets the thumbs up. If I have to value my self worth on what someone on Facebook or a public forum thinks of me, I am a sad individual.

 

Hint: there are lots of "sad" individuals out there.

 

Same for random people hurling insults into the headset during FPS campains, often by prepubescent boys who are obviously far too young to be playing "M" rated titles.

 

"Like" if you subscribe to the "I don't give a crap what some cyber punk thinks" ideology.

Edited December 14, 2014 by stardust4ever

[Bakasama]

Unfortunately, there are a new generation of liberal-arts college graduates entering the fields of journalism and entertainment,

whos sense of self worth is measured by how oppressed they are because victimhood is now a social currency.

Aren't these people usually called Social Justice Warriors?

[warmachine]

Aren't these people usually called Social Justice Warriors?

Yes, but most regular people can't tell the difference between social justice and real justice,

so they don't understand how anyone could possibly dissagree with it.

While real activism involves selflessly lending a helping had to those in need,

The SJW brand of diet activism is purely selfish.

The SJW only marketable skill is "speaking out" about their "lack of privelage".

The "speaking out" later causes "harassment" to materialize.

The "lack of privelage" and "harassment" are exchanged for credibillity.

The credibillity is then exchanged for favors, likes, retweets, reblogs, followers, and patreon donations.

Edited December 14, 2014 by warmachine

[Jess Ragan]

Really disappointed to see you guys swallowing the GamerGate rhetoric hook, line, and sinker. I do NOT support the movement, and firmly believe that those who have are misguided at best and malignant at worst.

 

By the way, I've known women who were driven from their homes and the industry by GamerGate members, so don't give me this jazz that the claims of harassment have been exaggerated. There wouldn't BE harassment if the movement didn't encourage so much antagonism toward Sarkeesian, Alexander, et al. If you don't like them, ignore them? It's a pretty easy concept to grasp.

 

I've seen a lot of ugly opinions from AtariAge lately; to the point where I've removed it from my bookmarks bar. You folks really ought to do better than this.

[warmachine]

That's nice.

I'm pretty certian that your removing of Atariage from your bookmarks was motivated by Nintendo's decline

in popularity on these forums, which is ironic considering Nintendo's problematic mysogonystic culture that

perpetuates the toxicly masculine tropes of a defenseless woman needing to be constantly rescued by the

patriarchy.

Edited December 14, 2014 by warmachine

[Crazy Climber]

Before I waste time watching this at any point do I get to see her boobs?

[Austin]

Before I waste time watching this at any point do I get to see her boobs?

 

Nope.

[Reaperman]

Then, go to tumblr.

Look up these terms:

 

cis

problematic

ableism

fat shaming

otherkin

head mates

privilege

 

You will see what has infected gaming culture and journalism.

 

Now I'm a lot more confused. What does any of that have to do with gamergate? Especially tumblr. I thought it was a big fuss over a messy and unusually public breakup, that also involved some accusations about the gaming media that if true, still fall into both my 'well duh' and 'who cares' bins at the same time.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Reaperman

[Jess Ragan]

GamerGators and Ferguson apologists. Enjoy your new audience, AtariAge!