Stay Frosty 2 doesn't work on six switchers?

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I suppose Al will offer to swap your cart for a fixed one.

[Albert]

I suppose Al will offer to swap your cart for a fixed one.

 

Correct.

[+grips03]

 

Correct.

do new orders ship with correction? I plan to order very soon.

[David Alexander]

 

Correct.

Hi Albert, I thought about it and don't want to mod my heavy Sixer to play the game so can I return it to you now and you send me the fixed version when its available?

Edited March 9, 2015 by Protestari

[Albert]

Hi Albert, I thought about it and don't want to mod my heavy Sixer to play the game so can I return it to you now and you send me the fixed version when its available?

Yes, please send me a PM and I'll help you out.

 

..Al

[jaholmes]

(bump)

 

This is a fascinating thread. Out of curiosity, was the issue ever root-caused? I mean, beyond experimentally determining that the filter choke in the sixer's power circuitry seemed to play a part? I'd love to know, as I'm not too keen on modding my stock heavy sixer. At the same time, I'm contemplating buying a Harmony as a development board, and I understand that the Harmony and the SF2 board (Melody) are essentially the same.

[jaholmes]

(EDIT: Please ignore this post; I found this picture which clearly shows the location of the FSM mod below to be different from the location of the mod Albert discusses earlier. The FSM mod location lies between the 6507 and 6532.)

 

Actually...

 

(Sorry for the double post!)

 

...is the sixer mod being discussed here the same one discussed in Field Service Manual? In section 3-2 of the FSM, I see the following:

 

 

Atari requires each 2600/2600A model returned for service to be checked for certain conditions. In some instances, a unit must be modified to conform to Atari standards. These changes are summarized below:

• (snip)
• Check for an inductor and capacitor over C201 and R206. Cut the inductor and cap out, being careful not to cut C201 or R206 leads.
• (snip)

 

If so, then I guess it's worth mentioning that Atari's solution was to remove, not bridge, the inductor. Although it would be great if somebody with a board in front of them could confirm that this is the same inductor. Anybody?

Edited May 11, 2015 by jaholmes

[+DrVenkman]

(EDIT: Please ignore this post; I found this picture which clearly shows the location of the FSM mod below to be different from the location of the mod Albert discusses earlier. The FSM mod location lies between the 6507 and 6532.)

 

Actually...

 

(Sorry for the double post!)

 

...is the sixer mod being discussed here the same one discussed in Field Service Manual? In section 3-2 of the FSM, I see the following:

 

 

If so, then I guess it's worth mentioning that Atari's solution was to remove, not bridge, the inductor. Although it would be great if somebody with a board in front of them could confirm that this is the same inductor. Anybody?

 

I have a new-to-me Light Sixer with a red Atari Service label on the bottom; I suspect it was a factory repaired unit at some point in its history. When I take it apart to examine it this weekend, I might be able to confirm this one way or another.

[jaholmes]

 

I have a new-to-me Light Sixer with a red Atari Service label on the bottom; I suspect it was a factory repaired unit at some point in its history. When I take it apart to examine it this weekend, I might be able to confirm this one way or another.

 

Just to be clear, and per the "please ignore" in my previous post, I've confirmed through examination of photos and diagrams in the Field Service Manual that the "inductor and capacitor over C201 and R206" in the Manual is not referring to the inductor Albert is referring to. So definitely don't perform this Atari-suggested modification expecting it to resolve the Stay Frosty 2 issue. I don't think it's related.

 

But it is interesting anyway.

 

I still look forward to knowing the Ultimate Answer to the Stay Frosty 2 issue.

Edited May 12, 2015 by jaholmes

[Andromeda Stardust]

Just an interesting tidbit I encountered.

 

The problem part is L200. Looking at the 2600 field service manual, they indicate that in 8/11/81, the inductor was replaced with a ferrite bead. So late model sixers may be fine. The ferrite bead does not cause the problems we've seen, and later consoles all use ferrite beads instead, as do 7800s.

 

Since 4-switches were out before 1981, it's possible that inductors were installed instead of ferrite beads in some of those too. I'd be curious to find out.

I have an early 4-switch wodgrain. It plays Stay Frosty 2 and Byte Before Christmas just fine. I have also refurbed it in 2012 shortly after I bought it, with a new "chicklet" filter cap and 7805 regulator. I also replaced the frayed RCA with internal RG6 Coax and added a large ferrite choke to the RF feed. The date stamp on my 4-switch woodgrain is 05-1980, more than a year before this memo. If anyone needs me too, I can examine the PCB to check if this inductor is present or if it was indeed excluded from the earliest 4-switch models. Sorry for the late reply as I just discovered this thread.

[iesposta]

(bump)

 

This is a fascinating thread. Out of curiosity, was the issue ever root-caused? I mean, beyond experimentally determining that the filter choke in the sixer's power circuitry seemed to play a part? I'd love to know, as I'm not too keen on modding my stock heavy sixer. At the same time, I'm contemplating buying a Harmony as a development board, and I understand that the Harmony and the SF2 board (Melody) are essentially the same.

In post 68 of this thread it is explained what is going wrong.

The hardware fix was easy, but costly and time consuming.

The goal was to make a software fix and then the carts sent back to get new programming on them which can be done without opening them or ruining the labels or using new boards or modding the run of boards used.

(Correct me if I'm wrong.)

 

 

I guess a software fix is proving more difficult than first thought?

[iesposta]

The reason, as stated in post 68, is Melody Version 1 has the parts that are used for a certain circuit that all Harmony carts have.

Most Melody carts have this vestigial hardware and also allow SF2 to run.

Version 2 Melody boards removed these parts as they were not even used, but it turns out that having them there prevented this brownout situation so even though those parts weren't used, they caused something unintended to happen which made Stay Frosty 2 run.

[jaholmes]

The reason, as stated in post 68, is Melody Version 1 has the parts that are used for a certain circuit that all Harmony carts have.

Most Melody carts have this vestigial hardware and also allow SF2 to run.

Version 2 Melody boards removed these parts as they were not even used, but it turns out that having them there prevented this brownout situation so even though those parts weren't used, they caused something unintended to happen which made Stay Frosty 2 run.

 

Gah! Thanks for pointing that out. Batari's post started out with a bit of a speculative tone, which caused me not to read all the way to the bottom. I see now the error of my ways.

[thorr]

...but Stay Frosty 2 (on cart from AtariAge) won't run. I just either get snow or...

Just reading through this thread and laughed out loud when I saw that. :-)

[KAZ]

I just bought Stay Frosty 2, and I have to say it is an INSANELY AWESOME game!

 

I just want to report a 'bug' if you can call it that....

 

I have a 4 switch woodgrain. I'm using an RF connection, lol. The game starts fine, and I hear the music fine for the intro screen.

 

But, when I started the game the first time, I heard no level music. I turned the system on and off and still no level music.

 

So I fiddled with the difficulty switches, and the music came on! It isn't quite as clear as having the difficulty switches on a certain setting. I pretty much had to wiggle the 'rightmost' difficulty controls mostly to the 'rightmost' position till the music came on, and then I carefully left it

 

Just in case anyone else has this issue, perhaps this post might help a bit.

 

Also, does anyone else have this issue?

 

 

 

Did I mention this game is awesome, this can't be stated enough times!!

Edited May 18, 2015 by KAZ

[Albert]

So I fiddled with the difficulty switches, and the music came on! It isn't quite as clear as having the difficulty switches on a certain setting. I pretty much had to wiggle the 'rightmost' difficulty controls mostly to the 'rightmost' position till the music came on, and then I carefully left it

The right difficulty switch allows you to toggle the music on or off. Sounds like you may have a faulty (or failing) right difficulty switch.

 

..Al

[phattyboombatty]

I dug up this thread so that I could double-check on what I'd need to do to get SF2 working on my AV Sears L6er... too much sprite disappearance on my standard Jr. when hooked up to my LCD TV.

 

I see that the final answer is to return the cart to Al for a fixed copy. But I didn't want to depart with my dear SF2 cart without dumping the ROM! Well, I tried that with my AtariMax cart dumper, but no workie.

 

Then I Googled to see what type of ROM config SF2 would require for the dump, and happily came across this thread where the ROM was released! Now... I found it strange that it was revealed in the HSC sub-forum, and I can't quite figure it out!

 

Anyway, wanted to share in case others need the ROM to load onto their Harmony cart in order to play on an unmodded Sixer.

[Psychob0b1977]

Alright, we have discovered why our current version of the Melody board is having issues with Light and Heavy Sixers. While Fred Quimby was researching this issue, he looked at the Heavy Sixer schematics and found a circuit that does not exist on any later Atari systems (four-switcher, Jr., 7800), and doesn't really seem to serve a useful purpose in the Sixers. This circuit also seems to cause problems with other games as well--for instance, River Raid II.

 

While we continue to work on a solution that fixes this issue from the cartridge side of things, there is a very easy mod you can do to your Light or Heavy Sixer that will fix these compatibility issues. After doing this mod to two different Light Sixers, every game I threw at the system ran fine, including River Raid II. iesposta modified his Heavy Sixer with the same results.

 

Here's the back of the circuit board:

 

 

Simply bridge the two circled solder joints with a wire and you'll bypass this circuit. Very easy to do mod if you have any soldering experience.

 

Here's an image after the mod has been performed:

 

 

Example of River Raid II before and after:

 

 

 

And Stay Frosty 2:

 

 

If anyone performs this mod, would love to hear your results.

 

..Al

 

sorry to revive an old thread... I had a question for anyone who has done this modification, it has been quite a while now, has it caused any negative side effects or killed your console? i was thinking of doing it so i can play river raid 2 on my heavy 6, but i dont want to harm it in any way.

 

Thanks!

[Andromeda Stardust]

Possibly unrelated, but I noticed my 7800 does not like Reindeer Rescue. It runs flawless on my 4-switch 2600.

 

Any ideas why?

[Umberto]

Possibly unrelated, but I noticed my 7800 does not like Reindeer Rescue. It runs flawless on my 4-switch 2600.

 

Any ideas why?

I think its the singing:)

[+ZeroPage Homebrew]

Just wanted to add to the thread that I just performed this modification on my RGB modded light sixer and it has cleared up the issue I was having booting both Stay Frosty 2 and Toyshop Trouble. Thank you so much to Albert for posting the photos of the mod.

 

My soldering job was terrible but it's the first time I've ever soldered and it got the job done! :-)

 

 

sorry to revive an old thread... I had a question for anyone who has done this modification, it has been quite a while now, has it caused any negative side effects or killed your console? i was thinking of doing it so i can play river raid 2 on my heavy 6, but i dont want to harm it in any way.

 

Thanks!

 

[+SpiceWare]

 

sorry to revive an old thread... I had a question for anyone who has done this modification, it has been quite a while now, has it caused any negative side effects or killed your console? i was thinking of doing it so i can play river raid 2 on my heavy 6, but i dont want to harm it in any way.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

Surprised nobody answered - I did this modification over 4 years ago and my VCS has been fine ever since.

[iesposta]

Just wanted to add to the thread that I just performed this modification on my RGB modded light sixer and it has cleared up the issue I was having booting both Stay Frosty 2 and Toyshop Trouble. Thank you so much to Albert for posting the photos of the mod.

 

My soldering job was terrible but it's the first time I've ever soldered and it got the job done! :-)

 

 

 

 

Good to hear all is well!

 

My Heavy Sixer modded this way is also still fine.

 

This jumpered part remained removed for the rest of the Atari 2600’s life.

Adding compatibility for a few games counts as “a good thing” mod in my book, adding value rather than removing value, which is why I decided to do this jumper mod on an otherwise outstandingly designed and built original Atari VCS “Heavy Sixer”.

 

The only other “bad” thing on the original woodgrain design, including through the early 4-switch, was that static electricity can come in through the joystick ports and kill an IC which leads to joystick failure in certain directions.

The factory-recommended fix was to add diodes at the joystick connector, replacing capacitors, and that foil “tape” across the switches to the ground of the metal shielding. If you see the metal foil tape inside a woodgrain Atari 2600, this has already been modded or came from the factory that way.

[bradhig1]

I got out my Sears Telegames Heavy Sixer and it works fine on it.

[Bomberman1970]

I own a PAL light sixer and want to buy Stay Frosty 2 - will the actual version of the game run on my Atari (or must i modify my machine as stated before)?