Enhanced IK

[Marius]

Amazing enhancements btw. It's appreciated a lot! Thanks!

 

Any chance a 64K version with all the features can be done for a AtariMax cart? That would be great to add to the The!Cart collection, so it can all run on my stock 800XL.

 

If not, no problem!

Edited January 11, 2015 by ProWizard

[pavros]

I'm sure it's technically possible. Where can I find any specs of AtariMax cartridge (regarding bank switching)?

[R4ngerM4n]

Any updates?

[Franco Catrin]

What a great update! Awesome! Buenísimo!

[mrr19121970]

Sorry to dig up this old thread. Doing something similar on the C64:

 

https://youtu.be/Ge1rrC2VLGI

 

I wonder if anyone is up for porting to the ATARI too ?

[tjlazer]

What is that video of? Not sure what you mean?

[tjlazer]

Anyone know if this can get hacked for NTSC colors? Looks like crap on NTSC. (right)

[tjlazer]

bump?

[Mclaneinc]

Technically it should be quite simple to just change the colours, surely its not harder that finding register and altering what is being stored there?

 

DLI's might be more fun but for a hacker better than me it should be a walk in the park to just HACK it, I can't imagine anyone bothering to do a video format detecting routine with alternate palettes.. ..But who knows..

Edited June 1, 2019 by Mclaneinc

[Rybags]

The backgrounds in IK are fairly complex - not just simple bitmaps with DLI enhancements - it's probably the first time PM graphics were used effectively in a game to enhance backdrop images.

 

But as for those nasty NTSC colours - can be changed but chances are there's more than one.

 

Additional - would be nice to have the wrought iron fence like the real deal - and note from the street view that there's a fair bit of artistic licence in that the perspective and scaling is all wrong. https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-33.8497835,151.2113519,2a,75y,185.15h,90.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4SLMX5WNj25CuAk_gY_T8Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[Faicuai]

Anyone know if this can get hacked for NTSC colors? Looks like crap on NTSC. (right)

Don't worry about your current NTSC color rendition, as it corresponds to modern / contemporary NTSC color-decode. No need at all to modify the game itself.

 

 

I will post later today, how it really looks (and how to compensate) for the older color-decode, which is where most of Atari's color rendition (and main reference) comes from.

 

You can save those adjustments on your video processor, or simply your TV / Monitor (CRT or LCD), as long as they retain them for each video input available.

 

Stay tuned!

Edited June 1, 2019 by Faicuai

[flashjazzcat]

Don't worry about your current NTSC color rendition, as it corresponds to modern / contemporary NTSC color-decode. No need at all to modify the game itself.

 

9FF5B8FA-9A96-4FBD-AFF7-C6ED5E549100.jpeg

OMG. If only you had posted this - which I assume to be an example of the "ENTIRE, COMPLETE, FULL video-signal", the irrefutable virtues of which are extolled here - in the other thread, all of us narrow-crop luddites could have been enjoying the DMA and PMG junk in the borders for two or three days now. Why was this visual revelation kept secret for so long?

 

It's no wonder, meanwhile, that the calibration of Phisan's CRT monitor (with its miserly borders and complete lack of random crap at the sides of the display) caused you so much consternation. The extra information - so vital to enjoying these titles at their full potential, free of the constraints of older, inferior technology and of outdated modes of thinking - so clearly optimises the fidelity and flexibility of the viewing experience.

 

Anyway: better late than never. Hold my beer while I attempt to dial in something similar on my lowly consumer LCD display. Thank you so much!

Edited June 1, 2019 by flashjazzcat

[Faicuai]

OMG. If only you had posted this - which I assume to be an example of the "ENTIRE, COMPLETE, FULL video-signal", the irrefutable virtues of which are extolled here - in the other thread, all of us narrow-crop luddites could have been enjoying the DMA and PMG junk in the borders for two or three days now. Why was this visual revelation kept secret for so long?

 

It's no wonder, meanwhile, that the calibration of Phisan's CRT monitor (with its miserly borders and complete lack of random crap at the sides of the display) caused you so much consternation. The extra information - so vital to enjoying these titles at their full potential, free of the constraints of older, inferior technology and of outdated modes of thinking - so clearly optimises the fidelity and flexibility of the viewing experience.

 

Anyway: better late than never. Hold my beer while I attempt to dial in something similar on my lowly consumer LCD display. Thank you so much!

Here you go! I feel very generous today...(And with a click of a button, from my remote!

 

[Faicuai]

Don't worry about your current NTSC color rendition, as it corresponds to modern / contemporary NTSC color-decode. No need at all to modify the game itself.

9FF5B8FA-9A96-4FBD-AFF7-C6ED5E549100.jpeg

 

 

I will post later today, how it really looks (and how to compensate) for the older color-decode, which is where most of Atari's color rendition (and main reference) comes from.

 

You can save those adjustments on your video processor, or simply your TV / Monitor (CRT or LCD), as long as they retain them for each video input available.

 

Stay tuned!

Ok, going back to where we left this: since NTSC color-decoding changed along the way, and since we simply don't have black/white/gamma of both Atari's color output and a reference production display, the only way to try getting "better" colors is to work on the perceptual department.

 

This means that we can only hope to maximize the # titles that should look "right", at the expense of a (hopefully) smaller group of titles that will NOT do better (e.g. we will "shift" the perceptual errors on the chart where it harms the least).

 

Below is the resulting ACP (Atari Control Picture) chart that shows how colors end up after some targeted adjustments:

 

 

The simplest procedure would be as follows (assumes display white-point @ 6,500K):

 

1. Let the computer stand for 180 minutes (3 hours), minimum, idle (doing nothing), with the LCD/CRT ON.

2. Load ACP and, and RETARD phase (hue) on TV, LCD / Processor or CRT, until ROW 1 (below gray-scale) turns yellow-GOLD (not light yellow or orange, just plain GOLD).

3. Proceed and adjust color-pot on the Atari, until you get a) a grayish-blue (with maybe a minor hint of green) on cell A0 (actual color value, 160d), AND until row F is DIFFERENT from rows E, and 1 (otherwise you will end up with a 240 colors machine, which is a past mistake in color-calibration).

4. You can iterate between 2 & 3 as much as you feel is needed to get everything right.

 

With the above procedure, you will get YELLOWS, GREENS, REDs and BLUEs right, most of the time, BROWNS will be hit or miss, and orange-yellows will be a problem, since the procedure shifts most of perceptual error to rows E & F (E0 to F7). Titles like Star League baseball will be examples.

 

For general validation of the above adjustment (or your OWN adjustment), please, download APX's "NATIONAL FLAGS", where you will have a "firm" perceptual reference, since you either get these known flags RIGHT or WRONG (they exist or existed on their own, and their color reproduction is not subject to questioning). Probably the best way to make sure you are on the safe side, especially with yellows, reds, greens and blues.

 

Cheers!

Edited June 3, 2019 by Faicuai

[chm]

Hi guys,

Just wanted to share an idea I got.

Playing around with generic frame interpolation ai model I made short flick from IK. 

The model is general purpose and I put extremally low effort using it, just to see what will happen.
Result is really cool and putting more effort it could probably be much much better.
Is it even remotely viable to add some extra animation frames to the game?
From what I understand there is no source code or reverse engineered version of this cool game so it is probably out of the question, but still wanted to share and ask if this is something worth pursuing. 

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by chm

[Beeblebrox]

5 minutes ago, chm said:

Hi guys,

Just wanted to share an idea I got.

Playing around with generic frame interpolation ai model I made short flick from IK. 

The model is general purpose and I put extremally low effort using it, just to see what will happen.
Result is really cool and putting more effort it could probably be much much better.
Is it even remotely viable to add some extra animation frames to the game?
From what I understand there is no source code or reverse engineered version of this cool game so it is probably out of the question, but still wanted to share and ask if this is something worth pursuing. 

 

Smmooooothh!! I like it. Much more fluid animation.

[_The Doctor__]

realize it's a tool for making smoother video recordings but not a change for the Atari itself.

[Beeblebrox]

6 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

realize it's a tool for making smoother video recordings but not a change for the Atari itself.

indeed. Looks good nevertheless.

[rensoup]

4 hours ago, chm said:

Hi guys,

Just wanted to share an idea I got.

Playing around with generic frame interpolation ai model I made short flick from IK. 

The model is general purpose and I put extremally low effort using it, just to see what will happen.
Result is really cool and putting more effort it could probably be much much better.
Is it even remotely viable to add some extra animation frames to the game?
 

Very cool!

 

Can you share details on the process ?

 

 

5 hours ago, chm said:

From what I understand there is no source code or reverse engineered version of this cool game so it is probably out of the question, but still wanted to share and ask if this is something worth pursuing

I believe you want to talk to @mrr19121970, I think he was involved in the C64 version of IK ultimate:

 

On 11/20/2017 at 3:24 PM, mrr19121970 said:

Sorry to dig up this old thread. Doing something similar on the C64:

 

https://youtu.be/Ge1rrC2VLGI

 

I wonder if anyone is up for porting to the ATARI too ?

https://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=67078

 

 

34 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

realize it's a tool for making smoother video recordings but not a change for the Atari itself.

But like he said the frames can be extracted from the video and put back into the game!

[chm]

2 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

realize it's a tool for making smoother video recordings but not a change for the Atari itself.

Of course I do realize that 100%. 
I used bit of a shortcut. What I meant was generating extra sprite frames for player animation and adding it to the game alongside current artwork.

I realize that assets are loaded to ram and are used by the logic. Adding extra frames would need (more ram aside) changing the logic and the expanding assets, which is probably not even viable without the source code. That's why I mentioned the code or reverse engineered disassembly. 

I have never coded for Atari (yet ) but I do realize the difference between generating few frames of video with a tool and this idea 

That's why I have chosen this topic where guys who worked or have knowledge about (amazing) enhanced edition.

 

[rdefabri]

On 1/2/2015 at 5:50 AM, snicklin said:

 

I still like the extending of International Karate but I do think that there should also be something with the more modern style of Mortal Kombat.

 

If the Spectrum can do this, can the A8 do something similar?

 

 

OK, it doesn't have to be 50/60fps, but would 10fps be possible? That would be much better than the Spectrum example. Even 5fps is good.

That’s crude but really cool…I’d love to see something like that on the A8…

[Rybags]

There's hotkeys to change game speed isn't there?

 

Maybe put it to highest speed then work out what the frame rate is.  Interpolated extra animation frames would slow the game down.  But from memory the top 1 or 2 speeds were practically unplayable which would indicate the engine could tolerate at least doubling the number of animation cells.

[chm]

On 2/13/2023 at 9:46 PM, rensoup said:

Very cool!

 

Can you share details on the process ?

I used the basic Interpolation AI tool available from this site: 
runwayml.com (it's free)

I extracted unique frames from this short flick and put it into it. The outcome is as presented.

There are a lot of other ways to achieve this but this is the simplest for testing. The tool provides also option for custom additional training layers (it could be trained with animation frames from atari st version for example and few others related etc and would propably produce much better results) . 

 

 

On 2/13/2023 at 9:46 PM, rensoup said:

 

But like he said the frames can be extracted from the video and put back into the game!

To do it properly I think I would extract the sprites from the game (even from video) and interpolate from these. Meaning only proper animation frames without any background, fighters interactions etc. 

Looking at Youtube this isn't something new. People use similar solutions for pixelart animation.

 

On 2/14/2023 at 9:57 AM, Rybags said:

There's hotkeys to change game speed isn't there?

 

Maybe put it to highest speed then work out what the frame rate is.  Interpolated extra animation frames would slow the game down.  But from memory the top 1 or 2 speeds were practically unplayable which would indicate the engine could tolerate at least doubling the number of animation cells.

 

From what I observed fighters are animated with roughly 10 frames per second for the PAL version on default speed.
In 30fps snapshot of the game 3 frames in a row are exactly the same. But it's just a rough estimation - might be wrong.
But rising it to 20fps should make notable change in smoothness. Will try to simulate this just for fun

Edited February 15, 2023 by chm