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mr-atari

1450XLD testing, help needed. Perhaps somebody knows......

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Sijmen:

 

You can format high-speed skew under SpartaDOS. Otherwise, you need to use the Custom Format command ($66) in the USD section of the SDCS manual.

 

Can you take a few pictures of the jumper blocks on the SD-521? One of them must be wrong. The drive doesn't have a head load solenoid, does it? (is the head on the media when you close the door?)

 

You can remove your front bezel?? We need to make a bezel - would you mind taking pictures from all angles so we can duplicate it?

 

What are H1 and H2?

 

Bob

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How do you change the SKEW?

MyDOS boots but can't format, SD or DD nothing happens, Enhanced it tries to format but errors with -138.

After that, the disk is clean/formatted, but nothing written to sectors 1-3 and DIR.

I tried to configure to 40 tracks/1or2side/1step/SDorDD, no success

 

 

Only way is to dissemble the rom for the controller and find the format commands and what ever other commands are used. Maybe the 2k rom will help as well. Then write a custom format program.

 

James

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I have had a quick look at the 87P50 rom. Only sector maps in there are std 1050 ones. So no special high speed ones. Maybe done to keep same as std 1050 disks.

 

James

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Yes - you can alter the sector map in the controller, but I was thinking to just format a diskette on a USD 1050 and R/W it on the 1450XLD.

 

Bob

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I *think* that this drive has been run on a TONG board in a 1450XLD. Notice the option jumpers and the resistor pack - the white IC. I tried this drive in an XF551 and it would spin the disk but not read. I moved the DS- jumper to DS0 and the XF551 all worked fine. So, you may have to move the DS- jumper to DS1 to run it in a 1450XLD?

 

Are your jumpers set like mine? Resistor pack?

 

Bob

 

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Not much progress today :-(

It takes more time then expected to get things sorted.

And not enough hours in a day.

 

74LS10 on U8 with pin10 up, I'm sure now this is making device V: non functional.

PDD attached or not, powered up or not, 1450-OS or 1400-OS.

Device V: is off and stays off, schematics show that this pin is the strobe to the SC01 hardware.

So it must be in the socket for the voice to work.

The only difference I found in the OS is that it does not say "1450" (as the 1400 does) when you type DOS to go into selftest.

Even a 800XL-OS or MyBIOS boots the system with PDD/Voice/Modem functional.

 

H1/H2 are the passive components mounted on a socket.

The other passive parts are:

2x 50k BOURNS 3299 type W variable resistor.

1x 5-25 pF variable capacitor.

One capacitor mounted on the back, serial to the variable capacitor.

Need to check the value later.

 

Here are the pictures of the drive that came with the 1450XLD.

It has 1 jumper, set to S0 when I got it.

 

Also a picture of the XF551-jumpers, it has two jumpers. (set to Mx and S0)

 

The EPSON works fine with the XF551-enclosure, but refuses to read (it does seek) with the PDD.

The XF551-drive works fine in both......

Could it be something very simple, like the RPM or Modulation is just out of spec.?

 

Also I found a new screen when you boot the 1450XLD with SELECT down :-)

Not sure what the function is, It seems the option to boot without PDD-disk is removed.

 

Bezel is coming later, this one is in bad shape.

Partly broken/cracked, one mounting-pin gone and one positioning-pin.

It detaches by tilting the top towards you, then release the mounting pins from the inside.

First you have to remove the storage-bay from the inside to make this possible.

This bay looks familiar to me. Automotive-part from my old Nissan I had in the early 80's....?

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Edited by mr-atari
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You would think that if the SD-521 works in an XF551, there are no speed issues or clock issues or whatever. The only logical conclusion would be that the configuration is different.

 

The drive select depends on the flat cable as well as the Sx jumper settings. You should try the drive with S1.

 

The XF551 jumpers? That does not look like an XF551 drive. (none of mine look like that) Mx is not jumpered on the SD-512 - why don't you try it with a jumper on Mx, also?

 

Bad shape or not, I could use that bezel - trade?

 

Bob

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The bezel is not mine, so no trade here.

Just hang-on and wait.

 

I tried almost all possible settings on the EPSON, it does SEEK the track, but can't find the sector.

So when the motor goes on and it seeks, I assume the jumper is set correctly?

 

What are the functions of the 2x 50k and 5-25p variables connected to the WD2797 for?

 

My XF551 has a CNINON FZ-502 drive, perhaps a European batch?

I needed to install the EPROM on my PCB and jump the CPU to 8040

Since the masked rom burned into the 8050 is not functional.....

 

The boot sequence is also rather interesting.

Seems to be a part of the install routine of the PDD.

During the blue wait-screen, the motor turns for ever.

When you insert a non formatted disk, it just waits, keeps spinning.

Only when you insert a valid format it continues and tries to boot.

Bit0 of $247 is set.

 

My FREEZER_2005 plugged to the back: It does not fire-up when you press the button. :-(

And the EDITOR in debug needs the math-pack, so I can't hack into the PBI-rom.....

Time for altirra.

 

Later!

Sijmen.

 

You would think that if the SD-521 works in an XF551, there are no speed issues or clock issues or whatever. The only logical conclusion would be that the configuration is different.

 

The drive select depends on the flat cable as well as the Sx jumper settings. You should try the drive with S1.

 

The XF551 jumpers? That does not look like an XF551 drive. (none of mine look like that) Mx is not jumpered on the SD-512 - why don't you try it with a jumper on Mx, also?

 

Bad shape or not, I could use that bezel - trade?

 

Bob

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Edited by mr-atari

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At least 2 of those controls are to set up the frequency for the data separator.

Page here http://s100computers.com/My System Pages/ZFDC Board/ZFDC.htm

describes how to setup, down near bottom

The 5-25P can be setup by trying to continuously reading sector one and turning the pot till it reads. you should be able to find a sweet spot.

 

James

Edited by sup8pdct

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Thanks James!

I will do that next month.

Not enough time to do it in shorter time.

This could explain why the PDD is flaky and perhaps the Chinon is just in spec.

 

So WD279x are all one family, interesting.

Now I know why the PCB has 4 test-points called:

GRD / TEST / VCO / RPW / WPW

 

:grin:

 

Never to old to learn. :thumbsup:

At least 2 of those controls are to set up the frequency for the data separator.

Page here http://s100computers.com/My System Pages/ZFDC Board/ZFDC.htm

describes how to setup, down near bottom

The 5-25P can be setup by trying to continuously reading sector one and turning the pot till it reads. you should be able to find a sweet spot.

 

James

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If the drive is not READY, it will seek and spin but cannot read or write data. If you have the drive select jumper on the wrong pin, the drive will spin and seek but not read. Check pin 32 of the 2797 - that's the READY signal.

 

I would not mess with those adjustments. You have to jumper the TEST pin, power on the controller, and adjust them with a scope.

 

Do you have or can you borrow a regular 5.25 drive? You need to use a fairly new version that doesn't draw too much power, like a TEAC FD-55BR.

 

Bob

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Current Parts Listing: (2 Caps Unknown)

-----------------------------
Board Top
-----------------------------
U1-TMP8155P-2     (256 BYTE STATIC RAM WITH I/O PORTS AND TIMER)
U2-WD2797PL-02    (FDC)
U3-87P50 w/2732A  (Buss Controller)
U4-SN74LS74ANDS
U5-74LS138N
U6-2732A-25
U7-7406N
U8-7406N
U9-SN74LS00NDS
U10-2732A-25
X11-10.000mhz
U12-74LS32
U13-DM74LS90N
U14-SN74LS10N
U15-SN74LS373N
U16-DM74LS374N
U17-DM74LS374N
U18-74LS240N
H1-(2) 4.7k, (4) 150ohm
H2-(1) 1k,   (1) 1N914,  (1) 0.22uf
(2) 50k BOURNS 3299 type W variable resistor.
(1) 5-25 pF variable capacitor.
(1) SPDT Toggle Switch
(2) 34 Pin Connector
(1) Floppy Power Connector
-----------------------------
Board Bottom
-----------------------------
(1)  20uh Inductor
(1)  ???? Cap  (RED)  on U17
(1)  ???? Cap  (BLUE) on U18
(5)  1.0uf (105M) Caps
(11) 0.1uf (104k) Caps

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To all:

 

Both caps are 105 type.

your Inductor is a cap I guess (not a coil?).

20pF, soldered parallel over the variable cap.

So the cap does an addition to set 25-45pF on the VCO-pin.

 

I will check and measure the VCO, clock, RPW, WPW next month.

I have a scoop and know how to use it ;-)

I did do some quick reading on the scoop with the WD in test, looks OK, did not measure timing and stuff.

I also did wiggle the 2 pots/cap. VCO moves RPW/WPW not that I noticed.

 

I will check pin 32, sure.

Any suggestions why use a 3rd 5.25" drive? The Chinon (a regular drive?) works great or am I missing a point?

I have to dig through my attic to find another 5.25"drive..... Not much in use lately.

Hmmm, I have a Atari-PCF-drive that can be a donor.

 

The Floppy is powered separately/directly from the power source.

I have rigged a PC-unit, giving simultaneous power.

1 line goes to the XLD, which powers the PDD too.

1 line goes to the Floppy (actual both floppy's so I can change the floppy cable from one to the other)

 

Still the EPSON-drive does not do his trick.

 

Later!

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If the drive is not READY, it will seek and spin but cannot read or write data. If you have the drive select jumper on the wrong pin, the drive will spin and seek but not read. Check pin 32 of the 2797 - that's the READY signal.

 

I would not mess with those adjustments. You have to jumper the TEST pin, power on the controller, and adjust them with a scope.

 

Do you have or can you borrow a regular 5.25 drive? You need to use a fairly new version that doesn't draw too much power, like a TEAC FD-55BR.

 

Bob

Some more info:

 

I BOOT and load DOS with the Chinon.

Then swap the cable to EPSON.

Do directory:

with NO jumpers, the drive spins, does not seek, error 163

with ANY jumper on one of the 5 terminals, the drive spins, seeks, goes from track_0 to the middle of the disk (several times), error 163

 

I tried numerous jumper setting.

without Mx, DS0 through DS3

with Mx, DS0 through DS3

Also with 2 jumpers all possibilities.

1 jumper, 2 jumpers, 3 jumpers and all 4 (DS0-DS3)

 

Pin 32 is low, always.

 

I call it a day....

 

No luck yet.

Edited by mr-atari

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perhaps a 'disk present' switch is bad in the Epson drive? Or maybe that's a photosensor in that drive, but still could be the problem.

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If 32 is low, READY is off. The XF551 has a 1772-02 FDD controller, which does not use the READY line. Your FDD controller in the 1450XLD uses a 2797, which requires READY. My SD-521 drives the READY line high even with no disk in the drive. (this is in the XF551) Perhaps you just have a bad SD-521. If you try another 5.25 (other than an XF551 drive), maybe it will work. This would be evidence that your SD-521 is faulty as opposed to something in the 1450XLD forcing READY low.

 

Try pin 32 on the SD-521 with no flat cable plugged in, just power. Mine shows 5v.

 

Bob

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I'm short of time until the end of the month.

So I have to leave it as is for now.

 

Status:

The systems works nicely with the Chinon (from my XF551).

The EPSON-SD521 does not boot/read any disk (but works in my XF551-enclosure)

Some current pictures attach.

 

Todo:

Clean keyboard-contacts (does not respond or very very badly, known problem)

Fix the keyboard, ESC-key snapped/broke of when it was shipped from USA to NL back in the 90's.

Continue trouble-shooting why the EPSON refuses.

Building a PSU when parts have arrived.

Re-build the system.

Ship it back to the owners..... ahhhh. :-(

 

PDD now placed inside the console, that fits!

Nicely spaced from the MB for heat/venting purposes.

 

Power distribution:

-5,+5,+12 to 1450XLD which feeds the PDD.

Floppy-units are directly powered by the PSU (on top)

 

Now I have a stupid question, why has the 1400XL (I have here) NO L1 and L2 leds?

Were there already plans to expend the memory to 128k, so the LEDs are obsolete?

And not yet on the 1450XLD?

 

Later!

Sijmen.

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Hello Sijmen @mr-atari )

Can I ask if your 1450XLD is now fully functional?

Is there a 1450XLD-special self-test including additional tests?

Sorry to rehash this conversation from the past but the 1450XLD is a dream out of reach for me.

So I'm full of questions for the lucky owners of a prototype.

Thanks for your understanding and indulgence.

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The 1450 was not mine, sorry.

Yes it's fully functional(*), I repaired it for my two friends who own it.

For as I know, there were no additional tests in the self-test.

Except the presence of the voice.

 

*) After replacement of the drive-mechanics, PDD-enable_switch and logic-IC...

 

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About 15 years there was a run at Best Electronics for all the leftover empty 1400 and 1450 boards. I'd guess about 50. 

Some people tried to populate them. I have not seen or heard of any successes. One of them may be willing to scan one to help make a reproduction.  

Note there are 2 versions of the 1450 board. One same size as 1400 but needed a daughter card for the floppy drivers. And large Tong board with floppy interface built in and it will not fit in a 1200/1400 case. 

I think there are schematics out there for all three if you want to design your own board. Possibly optimizing them for size and more easily  avaliable parts and eprom usage.

 

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2 hours ago, KLund1 said:

One of them may be willing to scan one to help make a reproduction.  

 

Two of us here on AA have successfully built these, myself included :)

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2 hours ago, KLund1 said:

About 15 years there was a run at Best Electronics for all the leftover empty 1400 and 1450 boards. I'd guess about 50. 

Some people tried to populate them. I have not seen or heard of any successes.

I believe that there were one or two that were built over the years.

 

 

There was a second video that cropped up probably in the 2010-2012 timeframe.  IIRC, it was of someone giving a presentation to at one of their local hackerspaces about the 1400/1450 that they built from scratch.  Can't find it to save my life, though.

 

FWIW, it's not this video (which shows a repair, not build) - this one came out about 3 months ago.

 

 

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