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Toki Prototype For 7800 Discovered!

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Oh and where the heck is Buddies? Not seen him around in many moons. Miss the dude. Was a cool dude to talk to.

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Toki was one of 5 Atari 7800 games that still was in development in 1993 or was on 1 out 2 May 1993 internal Documents for the Atari 7800. The other 4 are Pit Fighter, Rampart, Road Riot 4WD and Steel Talons.

 

Well I think we've found the last version of Pit Fighter that was worked on (or close to it). Unfortunately the version of Rampart we have is very early so a later version is probably still out there. I've heard rumors of Road Riot being found, but those never panned out (or they were mixing up the 7800 and Lynx versions). I've never heard anything about Steel Talons. I can't imagine how stripped down it would have to be to work on the 7800. They'd have to completely overhaul the game because the 7800 wasn't going to push 3-D polygons no matter what.

 

I honestly never thought Toki would be found. This is a very cool surprise. :)

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Nice going :)

 

Hopefully the glitches/bugs in the game can be fixed eventually so it is properly completable.

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Do you mean the ebay auction? I think it was like 4 or 5 years ago. I don't remember the exact date.

 

Mitch

 

Yeah, just surprised they've waited so long to come forward!

 

 

Like I said we are not sure what can be done with the game until more analysis is done in regard to how feasible it is to get onto cart. But a cart release plus an eventual ROM would be reasonable imo.

 

I did a small comparison of toki a few day ago out of curiosity just to see how the versions stack up. Graphically it's interesting how Atari omitted certain details (likely due to hardware limitations) but also tried to add a little more detail in other ways to make up for it. In regard to level design and game play they did a pretty impressive job getting the arcade game on the 7800 with few compromises.

 

attachicon.giftoki_comparison.JPG

 

attachicon.giftoki comparison2.JPG

 

Wow, nice comparison. Though sheesh you'd think they could make it look better than the Lynx version. Glad to hear a release is forthcoming.

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Wow! I never expected this would be found. This is what I have on my site about it:

 

 

Too bad I sold my 7800. I guess there's always emulators. :)

 

You mean there is always ebay so you can buy another 7800 :)

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Toki is 128K, the title screen has no sound but the game has music and sound. It is PAL (although the colors look right to me) and needs some more investigation, it has some playfield glitches as well. :cool:

 

MegaCart running...

IMG_0981.JPG

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I think this may just need some DLI adjustments, the screen is shifted down and there is plenty room up top. :D

 

 

IMG_0982.JPG

IMG_0983.JPG

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wow. that is a really nice looking title. I don't think I ever played Toki before, but that one looks like a good port, at least graphically.

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The Digital Press Collector's Guide I have actually explains why Toki has a 1993 date. Atari had Internal Documents in May of 1993 concerning Atari 7800 game development according to Digital Press Collector's guide. According to an internal document dated 5/12/93 claimed Atari Management decided to stop 7800 development at this time.

 

Toki was one of 5 Atari 7800 games that still was in development in 1993 or was on 1 out 2 May 1993 internal Documents for the Atari 7800. The other 4 are Pit Fighter, Rampart, Road Riot 4WD and Steel Talons.

 

I find it interesting and strange that Atari was still allegedly funding development of 7800 games in 1993.

 

I remember reading in magazines in early 1992 that Atari was discontinuing support for the 2600 and 7800. Even at that point in time, I was surprised to read this...not because it was particularly shocking news, but because I thought they had already discontinued them for a while!

 

From what I've observed, none of the major retailers (Toys "R" Us, KB Toys, Sears, JC Penney) had stocked the 7800 since about mid '90. In fact, none of those stores bothered to pick up any of the new releases past the end of '89 (so I never saw games like Alien Brigade, Midnight Mutants, Ninja Golf, Ikari Warriors, or Fatal Run in stores).

 

Let's flash back to the beginning of '92. There hadn't been any new 7800 games released for over a year...not like anyone would have noticed anyway, since stores dropped it long before that, and media coverage dried up as well. Meanwhile, the Genesis and SNES were in full swing. The TurboGrafx-16 (a much more viable system than the 7800 at that point) was already showing signs of struggling. The old Sega Master System (a system that had many more games released throughout '90 and '91 compared to the 7800) was itself also starting to vanish from store shelves. Atari's "main" system at the time, the Lynx, was feeling increased pressure from both Game Boy and Game Gear.

 

The market had already spoken. The 7800 could no longer be considered a commercially viable product, even by the longest of longshot stretches from staunch Atari fans.

 

So in what Bizarro universe did the notoriously cheap Tramiel family decide they would continue secretly investing resources into unannounced games for the 7800 for almost a year and a half after that?

 

Did Atari management imprison the games' developers in a dungeon, sequestered from any outside contact with civilization, and forget to tell them that they discontinued the system?

 

The only reason that I can possibly think of was that they might have tried to break into the market for developing countries. Look at the situation with the Sega Master System, which enjoyed an extended run in some parts of the world where more advanced systems were virtually unobtainable to the mass population. (While some countries had the Dreamcast, others still had the Master System.) I could maybe see the 7800 getting a second wind in those markets.

 

Other than that, I can't find any plausible justification for Atari to continue investing resources in 7800 games in 1993, when they neglected to release anything for more than a year before that, and retailers and consumers already moved on. Those resources would have been much better applied to bolster the struggling Lynx...or to get a few more launch titles ready for the shiny new Jaguar system that they were aiming to release just a few months later.

 

While I'm excited for the discovery of this 7800 game (and potentially others), I'm almost even more curious to learn about the story behind their secret prolonged development.

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I find it interesting and strange that Atari was still allegedly funding development of 7800 games in 1993.

 

I remember reading in magazines in early 1992 that Atari was discontinuing support for the 2600 and 7800. Even at that point in time, I was surprised to read this...not because it was particularly shocking news, but because I thought they had already discontinued them for a while!

 

From what I've observed, none of the major retailers (Toys "R" Us, KB Toys, Sears, JC Penney) had stocked the 7800 since about mid '90. In fact, none of those stores bothered to pick up any of the new releases past the end of '89 (so I never saw games like Alien Brigade, Midnight Mutants, Ninja Golf, Ikari Warriors, or Fatal Run in stores).

I got an Atari 7800 for Christmas in 1989 as a 5th grader. What I recalled was in January 1990, Toys "R" Us wasn't getting any new Atari 7800 games in. I am going by a lot of games systems in 1990 has slips of papers in the game aisle at Toys "R" Us , but Atari 2600 and 7800 games were found on video shelves without a slip of paper. I remembered my younger brother and I buying Atari 7800 games on clearance in 1990 and 1991 at stores like Circus World.

 

I remembered seeing some of the games you mentioned in the 1990 Sears Wishbook Catalog. I remembered wanting games like Ikari Warriors and Fatal run for Christmas that year, but I didn't get them as Christmas gifts. Sears Catalog was the only place that I know more games were in development without going through Atari for mail order.

 

The first time I saw Ikari Warriors for the Atari 7800 was at a local Big lots in 1995 or 1996, but I didn't but it since I wasn't into the 7800 at the time. The same thing happened with Fatal Run.

 

When I saw the information in the Digital Press Collector's guide for the first timn, I was very shocked to see internal documents in 1993 about the Atari 7800 myself. I didn't recall reading about the Atari 7800 being discontinued, but I had sense that new games stopped being developed after 1990 in the United States.

Edited by 8th lutz

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Additional information:

 

The game uses 7 x 16K banks @ $8000 and one at $C000. I have confirmed this 100%, $4000-$7FFF is free. If I try to run the game with a 6+1+1 bankswitch, black screen.

 

So, 16K of address space is unused, for fun I tried it on my MegaCart+, with a RAM chip installed and the bankswitch logic from Sirius/Plutos. Doesn't behave any differently. Many possibilities. Maybe kjmann wants to take on turning the Amiga MOD into a RMT file. :ponder:

 

Fun, I wish I had more time right now.

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Amazing stuff. Holy crap. Never expected this to be found. I'm looking forward to playing it & comparing to all the other versions, but I'm sure I'll enjoy it for what it is, too. I have fond memories of this cabinet at the local Pizza Hut, situated next to Street Fighter 2 and NARC.

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Additional information:

 

The game uses 7 x 16K banks @ $8000 and one at $C000. I have confirmed this 100%, $4000-$7FFF is free. If I try to run the game with a 6+1+1 bankswitch, black screen.

 

So, 16K of address space is unused, for fun I tried it on my MegaCart+, with a RAM chip installed and the bankswitch logic from Sirius/Plutos. Doesn't behave any differently. Many possibilities. Maybe kjmann wants to take on turning the Amiga MOD into a RMT file. :ponder:

 

Fun, I wish I had more time right now.

Did you try it with a Pokey?

 

Mitch

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If this has 16k of free space it would be cool to see HSC, SaveKey and ya, the Amiga sfx would be awesome.

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Did you try it with a Pokey?

 

Mitch

 

Must! I'll dig up the "Commando" PLD code and try it this weekend. Or maybe just put NVRAM there and capture any kind of write access.

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The only reason that I can possibly think of was that they might have tried to break into the market for developing countries. Look at the situation with the Sega Master System, which enjoyed an extended run in some parts of the world where more advanced systems were virtually unobtainable to the mass population. (While some countries had the Dreamcast, others still had the Master System.) I could maybe see the 7800 getting a second wind in those markets.

 

That was my thought as well. They had an internal set of plans and then backed away from them. For example, Sentinel and the joypads only came out in Europe.

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