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Willard

Toki Prototype For 7800 Discovered!

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The intention is still to release the game as originally planned, hopefully soon. Appreciate everyone's patience so far, especially those who are involved in the release. Will be updating this thread a few times over the next week.

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On 5/15/2021 at 8:39 PM, Jaden (JRH) said:

Yeah, it's never going to be released. Nothing to do about it sadly.

 

Like I said, you are on that never list already, no need to request it again. ;)

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2 hours ago, CPUWIZ said:

 

Like I said, you are on that never list already, no need to request it again. ;)

I love lists, I love being on lists - but this is one list I will not ask to be placed on (upon which I will not asked to be placed?)

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3 minutes ago, Stephen said:

I love lists, I love being on lists - but this is one list I will not ask to be placed on (upon which I will not asked to be placed?)

@CPUWIZ right now, probably: 

 

list GIF

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Tested Toki on multiple different televisions to note the differences:

 

On a CRT screen the story intro for each level is partially cut off on the PAL version but fully visible in the NTSC mod.

When playing the game, you can see the entire screen on the PAL version, but the scores on the top are cut off on the NTSC mod.

 

847081161_Toki7800CRT.thumb.png.d9d818a0852b8e67d6c27573769bf070.png

 

On a LCD screen the story intro for each level is partially cut off on the PAL version but fully visible in the NTSC mod.

When playing the game, you can see the entire screen on the PAL version (bottom aligned) and the NTSC mod (top aligned).

 

1821121029_Toki7800LCD.thumb.png.3f82827acc4685d98f4fa927880ab242.png

Edited by Willard
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Youtube video of original PAL version of Toki on NTSC Machine. First 3 levels.

 

As seen in the video, some graphical glitching occurs when played on an NTSC 7800, but overall it does not interfere with the game play. The glitching does not occur when played on a PAL 7800.

 

 

Edited by Willard
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Youtube video of NTSC mod of Toki on NTSC console.

 

This is an NTSC mod of the PAL version. The NTSC mod substantially reduces the graphical glitching when the game is played on an NTSC console, but introduces some occasional slowdown as well as some screen judder during vertical scrolling.

 

 

Edited by Willard
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5 minutes ago, Willard said:

Youtube video of original PAL version of Toki on NTSC Machine. First 3 levels.

 

 

There to be some major graphics-glitches in the backdrops graphics.

 

Are these going to just be part - when, as you say - it will eventually ses a release, or rooted out?

 

Or are they simply due to running PAL on NTSC?

Edited by Giles N
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5 minutes ago, Giles N said:

There to be some major graphics-glitches in the backdrops graphics.

 

Are these going to just be part - when, as you say - it will eventually ses a release, or rooted out?

 

Or are they simply due to running PAL on NTSC?

 

I have just updated my posts with the explanation that can be seen in the youtube description. The graphics glitches appear because it is the PAL version of the game being played on an NTSC console. If the PAL version were played on a PAL console there would be no glitches.

 

The NTSC mod resolves most of the glitching, but it introduces a little slowdown.

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The tile textures and giant sprites make this 7800 version quite charming. It will be just me, but I also like the audio. I'm glad this is finally becoming a reality, a big thank you to everyone involved.

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45 minutes ago, Giles N said:

Are these going to just be part - when, as you say - it will eventually ses a release, or rooted out?

 

It is as good as it will get, more than enough time has already been spent on it.  Maybe now the "POKEY = NEVER" makes more sense to some, no cycles for it.

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11 hours ago, Willard said:

On a CRT screen the story intro for each level is partially cut off on the PAL version but fully visible in the NTSC mod.
When playing the game, you can see the entire screen on the PAL version, but the scores on the top are cut off on the NTSC mod.

 

847081161_Toki7800CRT.thumb.png.d9d818a0852b8e67d6c27573769bf070.png

 

 

'YMMV' here is worth a mention.  Depending on the number of visible lines for a particular CRT, it can have a significant impact on the results.

One NTSC display showing only 215 lines, as opposed to another showing 239 lines, will both demonstrate significantly different from the 224 lines average.

 

Under a 1983 NTSC Commodore 1702 monitor (Just like the ones Al uses at many of the expo shows), NTSC Toki, both intro story and score, are completely visible.

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10 hours ago, CPUWIZ said:

It is as good as it will get, more than enough time has already been spent on it.  Maybe now the "POKEY = NEVER" makes more sense to some, no cycles for it.

:thumbsup: Indeed. 

 

To be clear folks - there was no source code to work with here.  There is no ability to re-write sections of the game or make the code more efficient or add/improve on aspects of the code as typically presented.

 

What @RevEng performed is a labor of love, to state the least, very time consuming to reverse engineer the game and its respective display generation to get it even working under NTSC.   The fact it is playable at all and contains such relatively little glitching is astounding.

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1 hour ago, Trebor said:

What @RevEng performed is a labor of love, to state the least, very time consuming to reverse engineer the game and its respective display generation to get it even working under NTSC.

I never cease to be amazed at how a little nostalgia turns into a hobby turns into a community service to like-minded folks. Thank you @RevEng for your reverse-engineering!

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Instabuy for me if this gets a cart release.👍

The 7800 continues to receive a huge amount of love.  Hats off and thanks to all involved. 

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5 hours ago, Trebor said:

:thumbsup: Indeed. 

 

To be clear folks - there was no source code to work with here.  There is no ability to re-write sections of the game or make the code more efficient or add/improve on aspects of the code as typically presented.

 

What @RevEng performed is a labor of love, to state the least, very time consuming to reverse engineer the game and its respective display generation to get it even working under NTSC.   The fact it is playable at all and contains such relatively little glitching is astounding.

I’m not a tech-genius, I was only curious.

 

Anyway, since I have PAL 7800, Secam 7800 and NTSC 7800, for me the question would as such - given its release - only concern to which region I should obtain it.

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When I did my review I was running the PAL rom on a PAL 7800 emulator and I still saw some glitches.  I don't know if it was the emulator or the game though.

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I would pony up for a cart of Toki for my Atari 7800.

 

Seriously, I would.  This game makes me go ape.  I hope the challenge of bringing this game to cartridge format doesn't drive anyone bananas.  :) :D  

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2 hours ago, Tempest said:

When I did my review I was running the PAL rom on a PAL 7800 emulator and I still saw some glitches.  I don't know if it was the emulator or the game though.

 

I think results may vary by emulator. Here is a capture of the PAL version on the BupSystem emulator in PAL mode where I did not see any mention able glitching.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Willard said:

 

I think results may vary by emulator. Here is a capture of the PAL version on the BupSystem emulator in PAL mode where I did not see any mention able glitching.

Ok I was using a7800.  I should try this out on my 7800, although I don't know if the Concerto cart supports the rom or not.

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7 minutes ago, Tempest said:

I don't know if the Concerto cart supports the rom or not.

 

The one you have should work fine.

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3 hours ago, 7800Knight said:

I would pony up for a cart of Toki for my Atari 7800.

 

Seriously, I would.  This game makes me go ape.  I hope the challenge of bringing this game to cartridge format doesn't drive anyone bananas.  :) :D  

For my own part my main-interest in this would be if playable from a cart on real 7800 hardware.

 

Good Deal Games should be (if not the only) a natural place of distribution...

 

(just a thought anyway....)

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