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Toki Prototype For 7800 Discovered!


Willard

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All I gathered was small amount of 5/12/93 internal document printed in the guide mentioned that Atari Management made the decision to stop Atari 7800 development at this time. The 5/14/93 document even mention an agreement on cost for Rampart,and Pitfighter for canceling the 2 games, The other 3 games from the 5/14/93 had a full price of game development cost.

 

Why would Atari have Internal documents dated 5/12/93 and 5/14/93 on Atari 7800 games if Toki or any Atari 7800 game wasn't being worked on in early 1993?

 

There is likely a very simple explanation (or a few). As stated above, discontinuation of the 7800 may have happened in different parts of the world at different times. For example, Atari Canada dropped it before Atari US ... later games after Tower Toppler, Crossbow and Dark Chambers were never even released here.

 

The second consideration is there simply may have been a contractual arrangement with both the licensor and the contracted developers of the games to deliver titles that had to be re-negotiated, or cancelled. Sometimes things like this take a long time to form, and even longer to execute on. course of business.Atari may have been stuck with old agreements that spanned years and multiple titles or multiple systems that were hard to get out of.

 

When Atari licensed software titles, they had a habit of doing it for multiple systems. When the Lynx came out, they had a push to get game licenses for the Lynx and 7800 initially.

 

A number of these "lost games" were games that ultimately ended up on the Lynx, yet seem to have been worked on for 7800 as well (Klax, Pit Fighter, Rampart, Toki).

Edited by DracIsBack
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The second consideration is there simply may have been a contractual arrangement with both the licensor and the contracted developers of the games to deliver titles that had to be re-negotiated, or cancelled. Sometimes things like this take a long time to form, and even longer to execute on. course of business.Atari may have been stuck with old agreements that spanned years and multiple titles or multiple systems that were hard to get out of.

 

I'm thinking that may be the reason. The memos mention they negotiated for the developer to drop the project. Although some systems (like the SMS) have games that were only released in one region well after it was discontinued in all other parts of the world. I think Europe got a number SNES games that we didn't get here in the US simply because it lasted another year or so in Europe (probably because they got it later).

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There is likely a very simple explanation (or a few). As stated above, discontinuation of the 7800 may have happened in different parts of the world at different times. For example, Atari Canada dropped it before Atari US ... later games after Tower Toppler, Crossbow and Dark Chambers were never even released here.

 

The second consideration is there simply may have been a contractual arrangement with both the licensor and the contracted developers of the games to deliver titles that had to be re-negotiated, or cancelled. Sometimes things like this take a long time to form, and even longer to execute on. course of business.Atari may have been stuck with old agreements that spanned years and multiple titles or multiple systems that were hard to get out of.

 

Both of these seem like good explanations. I don't know where in the world the 7800 was still considered "commercially viable" in 1993, but anything's possible. Contractual arrangements could have been the reason for continued development, and (as Tempest said) Atari might have actually had to step in and negotiate in order for development to cease. It might have been cheaper for them to buy their way out of the contracts, rather than to spend more even money completing the games, and manufacturing the cartridges in a world that no longer wanted new 7800 games.

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Whilst not related to Atari platforms, in 1 of the interviews i put out last year (and just seen 75% complete draft of..answers wise) my contact talks of a game he was working on, being handled by a freelancer, in terms of appearing on another platform.My contact talks of how there seemed to be no push from the publisher to get game out on 2 formats at same time, indeed the contract the freelancer had, in effect meant he could deliver the game as/when he was ready, not working to any deadlines.

 

 

My contact is'nt sure if the freelancers version of his game was ever finished, let alone released.

 

Just thought i'd add this as it's another 'insight' into the industry workings from someone at the coal face as it were.

 

I'll 'talk' more on interview itself once it's in.

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:-) Also, i know ATD talked about arriving late to PS1 development as they were tied in contract with Atari and had to get Battlemorph finished, but i wonder if they had a 3 (?) game contract with Atari for Jaguar, so Cybermorph, Battlemorph and Blue Lightning.If so (and this is just pure speculation on my part based on what thery've said..) it might 'explain' why Blue Lightning on Jag CD was so poor-they'd seen Jaguar bomb at retail, just wanted to get the Jag games done and sign upto developing on PS1.If Atari had told them Blue Lightning was just going to be bundled with unit, that'd leave Battlemorph to be finished and that was it, time to wash their hands of the Jag.

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An update for those curious: the possibility of getting this in good form on NTSC consoles is being actively looked into. Information will be posted by whomever is working on it and we are thankful for being offered help in regard to exploring the possibilities for this game.

 

That is a great find. Since Toki is now found, I hope Road Riot 4wd, and Steel Talons will be found for the Atari 7800. I also hope that there is more complete versions of Rampart, and Pit fighter out there.

 

It would be cool to see some of those other games surface, it would be interesting to see how Road Riot 4WD would look on the 7800.

 

The market had already spoken. The 7800 could no longer be considered a commercially viable product, even by the longest of longshot stretches from staunch Atari fans.

So in what Bizarro universe did the notoriously cheap Tramiel family decide they would continue secretly investing resources into unannounced games for the 7800 for almost a year and a half after that?

 

The only reason that I can possibly think of was that they might have tried to break into the market for developing countries. Look at the situation with the Sega Master System, which enjoyed an extended run in some parts of the world where more advanced systems were virtually unobtainable to the mass population. (While some countries had the Dreamcast, others still had the Master System.)

 

I thought that was rather strange too. It reminded me of the Master System as well, which got some highly quality and very ambitious ports late in the systems life (such as battlemaniacs).

 

The Digital Press Collector's Guide I have actually explains why Toki has a 1993 date. Atari had Internal Documents in May of 1993 concerning Atari 7800 game development according to Digital Press Collector's guide. According to an internal document dated 5/12/93 claimed Atari Management decided to stop 7800 development at this time.

 

Toki was one of 5 Atari 7800 games that still was in development in 1993 or was on 1 out 2 May 1993 internal Documents for the Atari 7800. The other 4 are Pit Fighter, Rampart, Road Riot 4WD and Steel Talons.

 

Digital Press claimed there according to an Internal Document dated 5/14/93 Toki was very close to being finalized. The Guide also mentioned Atari's total cost for this game was 9,000 lbs.

 

That is some interesting information. It sheds a little more light onto this (that Atari was planning something of a mini-revival of the 7800 with 5 rather ambitious titles). It would be interesting to see the full document. Still, it leaves a little uncertainty behind why Atari was thinking to plan on releasing a new batch of 5 games several years after the most recent commercial release, the same year they planned to launch the Jaguar.

 

I have seen some other people here share some interesting possibilities such as contractual obligations or entry into new markets. If it is the former, I guess it's fortunate that the developers seem to have done such a nice job on the release if all they were doing was burning up the end of a contract.

 

As for the 9,000 lbs cost of the game, that seems rather cheap although I have no insight into the cost of developing for the 7800 other than what you've shared. Some company credits suggest two companies were working on this, I wonder if the cost was just for the one who provided additional assistance.

 

Pretty cool find. Hopefully the other is The Eidolon :P

 

What graphics mode is this running in, 160B?

 

Sorry but the other is actually another Lynx game, which is just a further along version of one that has already been released so it's not really that exciting!

Edited by Willard
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Pretty cool find. Hopefully the other is The Eidolon :P

 

What graphics mode is this running in, 160B?

 

Toki is a great find! It would be very exciting if this is made available on a cartridge. And I would go ape spit crazy if The Eidolon was every found and released!

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I thought that was rather strange too. It reminded me of the Master System as well, which got some highly quality and very ambitious ports late in the systems life (such as battlemaniacs).

With the Master System, the reason was simply that the system was popular in Europe. You could get it in every store here up until the release of the Saturn in fact. And Brazil had it going strong till 1998 I believe. Question is: Where would the 7800 be popular enough by 1993? I always believed the USA were the 7800's strongest market; arguably outselling the SMS there (eventhough Sega officials don't even mention the 7800, but give % numbers for NA with just NES and SMS). In Germany, it was almost non existant, and I doubt it played a very large role in the rest of Europe.

 

Was there any popular late market for the 7800?

 

Or maybe it was indeed some late developments due to contratual obligations...

 

Anyway, it does look damn fine for a 7800 game, and well worth such low dev costs.

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If 7800 Turrican gets discovered in 2015..i think my tiny mind will implode.

 

To all who discover and share the amazing information with us out there, i salute you.

 

It's fantastic just to read about and your efforts are very much appreciated.

 

Isn't ElectroCop the big kahuna?

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@Greg2600:Turrican is the biggie for me on 7800.Ever since Raze claimed it'd be shown running i've always wondered what became of it and how it'd fare on 7800.

Not discrediting importance of 7800 Electrocop mind...

 

Who said Turrican was being made for the 7800? Raze? A magazine? Honestly, I don't believe a single word of that.

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Yep 'good old' UK Press....

 

 

Raze (Jan'91) reporting on Atari's 6-City Tour (6 railway caoaches packed with Atari hardware and software visting:Bristol, Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle, Glasgow and Birmingham) said visitors could see the 7800 console and....

 

'..2 very exciting new numbers:Impossible Mission and Turrican'

 

Personally never believed it any more than i have faith in the Atari user show report that time claiming Adam Caveman on A8 was seen running......

 

But like i say, in cases like this i'd be happy to be proved very wrong and code found.

 

Trouble is, so much of what the press claimed has turned out to B.S of the highest order.

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This is truly wonderful news. The game looks fantastic. I hope this can be released on cartridge.

 

I would actually prefer a PAL cartridge, but I understand the interest in making it available in NTSC as well. I will be keeping a close eye on this thread.

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Gotcha, I was just wondering why you would think that someone ported it recently and pretended it to be the real deal, found on Atari equipment bought off of ebay many years ago.

 

BTW, Toki does not use the address space at $4000, it has been confirmed. No RAM/ROM or POKEY in the 16K between $4000-$7FFF.

 

CPU,

 

I think the reason why people suspected it's a modern day port is because it's really hard to believe Atari Corp had 7800 games in development in 1993 when it was reported back in 1992 that the console was discontinued.

 

I myself was thinking perhaps the coders working on it in early 1992 just plugged in "1993" as a rough estimate as to when Atari might release the game.

 

As it stands, back in 1992, Atari did a really poor job of getting the word out to 7800 owners that there were later releases of games available for their consoles after retailers stopped carrying them.

 

But nonetheless, this is cool. It gives some small hope that 7800 Electrocop is still out there waiting to be rediscovered.

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Hey, wait a second…something's coming back to me that nobody has brought up yet… Wasn't it in 1992, 1993, or 1994 when Radio Shack announced they'd start carrying 2600 and 7800 games as an alternative for parents concerned with violence and gore in the modern 16-bit console era? Wouldn't that have been reason enough to bring out new games for the console?

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Looks GREAT!! Will the title have the animated floating hand with the topless hottie (like the Amiga),or will it have the brunette from the ST versions..or no animated intro? The guy on the left makes me feel like he at least walked onto the screen like the original!! Does he not have a 'I've-got-a-football-helmet-on-and-I'm-an-animal' sprite? Maybe I missed it!? There is a great comparison video on YouTube where several NES versions of games are pitted against 7800 titles, with the 7800 being the clear winner (IMO ;) )!!

 

 

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