Interesting Jag stuff in old magazines.

[JAGUAR]

So I have gone through hundreds and hundreds of old magazines from 1993-1996 and ripped out all the pages with Jaguar related stuff. Pretty crazy I know. I thought I could use this topic to discuss interesting stuff. Im just gonna snap some pictures, not the best quality but will do.

 

Start with, a couple Jaguar advertisements with games that were never released. However, most of the games in the ads were released, leading me to believe atleast playable copies of the unreleased games exist...

 

Jag needs a baseball game, and Hardball III is shown in both ads... Anyone tried to track this game down? Must be partially complete..

 

Ive also heard and read Graham Gooch Cricket and James Pond 3 were definitely worked on quite a bit and Telegames UK has them.. Those are both listed in the first ad too. Ultimate Brain Games I remember at Jaguar Sector some years back that one was up and running somewhere?

Edited February 4, 2015 by JAGUAR

[JAGUAR]

Seems like Rayman had a lot of stuff removed from the beta, graphics and story. Here's the beta covered in GameFan, lots of difference graphics and the strange story about "Jimmy" and "Hereitscool".

[Clint Thompson]

Not crazy at all. (ripping them out and keeping them I mean) I did that very thing and had several binders of them in the protective sheet covers as you've done here. I'm really surprised James Pond 3 never made it considering it would have probably been a simple port but it wasn't necessarily something we needed either and certainly didn't show the Jag's capabilities at all.

[JAGUAR]

Not crazy at all. (ripping them out and keeping them I mean) I did that very thing and had several binders of them in the protective sheet covers as you've done here. I'm really surprised James Pond 3 never made it considering it would have probably been a simple port but it wasn't necessarily something we needed either and certainly didn't show the Jag's capabilities at all.

 

I have filled two, 3 inch binders with Jaguar papers from magazines! lol. 200 protective sheet covers in each binder.. taken from gamefan, gamepro, egm, egm2, next generation, edge, game players, and more. I called it the Jaguar bible. It will be on ebay someday for big bucks lol. Took me so many hours. Every single sheet I ripped out, I carefully trimmed it to look nice.

 

I bet James Pond 3 was close to finished.

[JAGUAR]

Here we see Doom Jaguar beta with gray HUD and unreleased Indiana jags and zzyorxx. Too bad those 2 haven't been found, sure they are out there somewhere.

[Serblander]

Not crazy at all. (ripping them out and keeping them I mean)

Echo that! I had SO MANY magazines from Atari ST ones to EGM's, Gamefans, GamePros, EDGE, etc etc with Atari Jaguar content and then... floods Most were damaged and gone but have taken out all Jag content and dried out. The only Jag content mag wise is what i re-bought (Atari ST mags) and the three Jaguar Magazine supplements that i provided the pics for Retro Gamer Magazine's Jaguar article (as they were inside the home they didn't drown in the garage ^^ ). Now i need to collate all those Jag pages into a folder. Cool to see others doing the same, and this just inspires me to get off my arse and actually put them all together, so thanks

 

Btw, thanks for sharing! Will be cool to see articles from mags that i've never seen before

[NeoGeoNinja]

Enjoyed those mag pages so far!

 

Thanks for uploading them

[marigul]

RE: Hardball 3

I think that was part of the accolade deal, I didn't work on that one, however while I don't think it got far there was some sort of playable as I recall. I am surprised it hasn't popped up. I don't know who the dev was on that one though.

[ruimtemuis]

I believe I read somewhere that Graham Gooch cricket was indeed complete. Unfortunately it was never released by Telegames.

[Lost Dragon]

I'm another one who ripped mag pages out from magazines at the time covering the Jaguar (and anything else that took my fancy) sadly i just stored them in a (now very large) box and have spent hours tracking down people behind UK based 'Lost Jaguar' games, along with A8, ST, 7800 and Lynx.Trying to build up a much vclearer picture of what became of so many annouced titles.I'd wager 30%-40% at least of what appeared in UK press was sadly false, going by my findings.

As for the Telegames stuff? well RG Magazine did a big article back on them while i was subscribing, but despite making numerous references to fact Telegames had at 1 point, numerous unfinished/unreleased Jaguar games, the article did'nt name a single one, which i thought was most rum.Why make continued references if your not going to be able to at least detail a few of them and clear up a few 'what happened to...' stories?.

[Lost Dragon]

Zzyorxx i'd love to turn up somewhere, someday, but things like James Pond 3, Rise Of The Robots etc, i honestly have never seen as any great 'loss' to the Jaguar scene by not appearing.

 

Thanks for sharing, i've still not seen much USA Jaguar press so more that's up the merrier.

[Spacey Invader]

It's fun to read about the Jag from the narrow window during which magazines viewed it as an exciting platform with great potential. It wasn't long before the dogpile, and that just makes this all the more interesting.

[JagChris]

RE: Hardball 3

I think that was part of the accolade deal, I didn't work on that one, however while I don't think it got far there was some sort of playable as I recall. I am surprised it hasn't popped up. I don't know who the dev was on that one though.

 

 

Well since no one else will do it I guess I will.

 

What do you remember about Mortal Kombat 3 if anything? How much was finished? Playable demo? Was it being developed in house at Atari or subcontracted out? And if so to who?

[marigul]

 

 

Well since no one else will do it I guess I will.

 

What do you remember about Mortal Kombat 3 if anything? How much was finished? Playable demo? Was it being developed in house at Atari or subcontracted out? And if so to who?

This is a requote from me another AA thread regarding MK 3

 

Since it was 20 years ago, that is the best of my recollection on MK3, but there might have been some other random reason why it never got too far off the ground. It's possible that there was a demo since it was just a port and we had the graphics and source...but don't quote me on that and start looking for something that doesn't exist

I think the development was outsourced, but I cant remember who was doing it. My guess would be High Voltage since they were close to Midway in that era. However, I think MK 3 got derailed by the possibility of the The Realm Fighters game.

My memory is a bit fuzzy on it since it was so long ago. But we had the machine and did start some development on it.

[JagChris]

 

This is a requote from me another AA thread regarding MK 3

 

Since it was 20 years ago, that is the best of my recollection on MK3, but there might have been some other random reason why it never got too far off the ground. It's possible that there was a demo since it was just a port and we had the graphics and source...but don't quote me on that and start looking for something that doesn't exist

I think the development was outsourced, but I cant remember who was doing it. My guess would be High Voltage since they were close to Midway in that era. However, I think MK 3 got derailed by the possibility of the The Realm Fighters game.

My memory is a bit fuzzy on it since it was so long ago. But we had the machine and did start some development on it.

 

 

ok I totally missed that. You were the producer correct?

[JagChris]

Oh that would have been absolutely brilliant Atari derailing MK3 development to focus on some offbeat no-name fighter they were developing. Pure genius.

[marigul]

 

ok I totally missed that. You were the producer correct?

Yeah but drawing a blank on how far we got in development. It just seems that MK3 got derailed due to so many other fighting games in dev like THea Realm fighters and fight for life. It's also possible that it took a while to get the source code from Midway and it lost momentum and got delayed due to that. I vaguely remember that they were stonewalling us on some details and it was tough getting materials from them for that game. Also it's possible that it was delayed to coincide with the 6 button controller.

 

I remember meeting Ho Sung Pak and hearing his pitch on Thea Realm Fighters, but I am not sure that Atari actually funded that one. BTW Thea Realm fighters has the "actors" from the original MK(for whatever that was worth). I think the actors wanted a bigger piece of the pie so they figured they could make their own version and reap the benefits of owning the IP vs being in a work for hire arrangement.

[JagChris]

I remember meeting Ho Sung Pak and hearing his pitch on Thea Realm Fighters, but I am not sure that Atari actually funded that one. BTW Thea Realm fighters has the "actors" from the original MK(for whatever that was worth). I think the actors wanted a bigger piece of the pie so they figured they could make their own version and reap the benefits of owning the IP vs being in a work for hire arrangement.

 

Yeah I think most of us are aware of that. It was also pretty widespread news in the magazines of the time.

 

Any details, pictures anecdotes about that and meeting with those actors I think would be very interesting. The rumor that I remember was that Ho Sung Pak got miffed that he was replaced by the guy who played Liu Kang in the movie to play the actual digitized motion capture parts in the subsequent Mortal Kombat games themselves.

Edited February 9, 2015 by JagChris

[marigul]

 

Yeah I think most of us are aware of that. It was also pretty widespread news in the magazines of the time.

 

Any details, pictures anecdotes about that and meeting with those actors I think would be very interesting. The rumor that I remember was that Ho Sung Pak got miffed that he was replaced by the guy who played Liu Kang in the movie to play the actual digitized motion capture parts in the subsequent Mortal Kombat games themselves.

No interesting stories off hand, it wasn't my project so I think I only met them once or twice. I think there was some tension between them and the original MK devs. Probably over money and credits. Not sure on the specifics though, and in general they found out the hard way (like many people who try) that it's really difficult to make a good fighting game!

[Lost Dragon]

We really could do with a reboot as it were of a proper Lost Jaguar Games thread.

In order to avoid any issues that crept up in previous (and perhaps now locked threads), rather than give a simple 'status', for example:finished, lost....

We'd just have game time, what the press claimed and when, then what's been found regarding those claims since then and what sources were used.

So, an example:Tomb Raider seen in Edge Jaguar supplement, paid for by Atari.Status:Screens known to be fakes, source Richard B.Core P.R Chief at the time.Interview HERE.

Or :Creature Shock, claimed to be in development by Argonaught in Mags.....Sources spoken to:Mike Fulton, Alexander Holland, Darryl Still.Addt material, Jez San talking to Edge, scan HERE

Farran is proving to be a wealth of information as is and like he said there's no point in people looking for what might not exist.

We could simply add more info to Lost games as it becomes avaiable, it's what 'we' do on Unseen64/GTW so it'd make sense to do the same here?

[Lost Dragon]

It's just a humble suggestion, as currently we have multiple threads running here with misc info on Lost Jaguar games alone scattered through out.It'd be nice to have all the jigsaw pieces so far collected put in 1 'box' (thread) for easy reference.

[sh3-rg]

It's just a humble suggestion, as currently we have multiple threads running here with misc info on Lost Jaguar games alone scattered through out.It'd be nice to have all the jigsaw pieces so far collected put in 1 'box' (thread) for easy reference.

 

There's definitely merit in a list of titles, each having:

 

FACT: shots and links to hard, verified evidence.

FICTION: Known fibs, mock-ups, anything that is obviously more along the lines of PR, again with evidence to prove this.

FANTASY: non-verified material such as pure fabrications from magazines with zero supporting evidence and all the hallmarks of tall tales and wishful thinking designed to fill empty pages maybe.

 

All three might have the supporting evidence from the guys who were there at the time. For instance, someone could say they worked at Company X, they remember Game Y and worked on it for a while. This is material for FACT. Company A employee might remember Game B as never being anything more than artist impressions. Material for FICTION. Founder of company Z might say game LOL never, ever existed, in any form, not even a passing thought in his mind, it was all a fabrication by some deranged fanboi with too much time on his chubby little hands - and we have content in our FANTASY entry.

 

Just a suggestion, but way more valuable a resource than lists of wishful thinking and biased filling in of the blanks or videos/DVD/collectible trading cards of the same.

[Lost Dragon]

I like it! :-)

The 'Fantasy' Aspect should be included and that'd cover a broad spectrum of sources, we already know magazines like Edge basically made stuff up thanks to answers from Rebellion (no idea where they got that info from, it was'nt from us) and Core Design (they were given concept screens and told they were concept screens), Gamesmaster magazine just as bad (Lynx Cal Games 2 nearly finished, Aladdin heading to Jaguar), Ultimate Future Games (Quake what was it? 20-30% complete). Raze (7800 Turrican would be running at upcoming Atari show) etc etc.So there'd be no 'danger' of singling any one publication out, they are all as 'guilty' as each other.

Fiction could cover info put out by the press, but they were simply going on the P.R statements issued to them by various publishers etc and would in effect cover games Atari wanted, but could'nt secure and also detail tactics Atari used to suggest games were headed to Jaguar-ie mock-up or PC screens in promo.materials, put on Jaguar packaging etc

[Lost Dragon]

The supporting evidence is key, we've amassed a wealth of raw material over the years and it's still coming in, bit by bit.Old magazine interviews detailing a games origins, attitudes of a publisher towards Jaguar and why they never did any games for it, who had development kits and if they were actually developing anything (Psygnosis yes, had kits, no games done as they simply were not impressed, Domark had dev.kits, games believed to be in development, no confirmation as to which at this stage etc).

 

Then you've things like Creature shock-Atari UK confirm they wanted, could'nt afford, nor sign up Argonaught, San explains why he'd not commit, Mike Fulton ttalks about test work he did on it etc etc.

 

Even quotes from people that arrived at company X, started on Platform B version of game, so never touched a Jaguar, but knew companies attitude towards machine was...they only had 2 Jaguar coders at that time etc etc all help.

[Lost Dragon]

We are all adults here, i believe firmly in giving an open and honest approach to my research, happy to share the informal chats (cannot class them as proper interviews) i've done, email exchanges i've had over the past 2 years or so, put up the magazine interviews i'd collected over the years etc and also those who i tried to contact, but never had any joy from, in terms of replies.Plan to continue doing so.

 

 

 

The key issue is in all these cases, just how long it's been since the annoucements were made, peoples memories are'nt always 100%, opinion's change, what was once said in a throw away comment 20 years ago, often is'nt how they feel now etc.

 

There's def. 'scope' for a new thread, simply detailing the discoveries made, information gathered etc, with multiple sources to give a much needed degree of credibility rather than just going on..well Mag X said, so it must have been in development....