Atari 8-bit Software Preservation Initiative

[Mclaneinc]

Not sure about all the disk stuff but Omnimon checks are few and far between across the software, MULE I think did, Sidewinder was supposed to according to one of the programmers but I think he was bluffing as I never had an issue with it and found no direct checks in the code. To be honest I can't think of another title that did check for it?

[Farb]

6 hours ago, Shannon said:

While I'm thinking about it.  I noticed something interesting about some of the EA disk protection.  In particular I'm thinking of the game M.U.L.E.  But I'm sure other EA games are affected by this as well.

I recall Archon having this behavior as well.

 

6 hours ago, Shannon said:

So out of curiosity I tried it on Altirra under the same config ( A800 48k ) and the game loads fine.  After some reading it appears to have something to do with the Atari 800 having a floating bus or something like this?  So I guess the floating bus is not emulated in the Atari800.  Altirra has it as an "option" in the menu but it must duplicate some of the behavior of the bus with that option unchecked.

I didn't think the floating bus had anything to do with the EA protection but I could be wrong. I know one title whose protection was affected by the A800's floating bus was Coleco's WarGames. I had contacted phaeron about it because the verified ATX worked on a real Atari but not Altirra. As I recall, the floating bus emulation was pretty CPU intensive so was off by default.

[ijor]

7 hours ago, Shannon said:

While I'm thinking about it.  I noticed something interesting about some of the EA disk protection.  In particular I'm thinking of the game M.U.L.E.  But I'm sure other EA games are affected by this as well.

...

So out of curiosity I tried it on Altirra under the same config ( A800 48k ) and the game loads fine.  After some reading it appears to have something to do with the Atari 800 having a floating bus or something like this?  So I guess the floating bus is not emulated in the Atari800. 

 

Same EA titles definitively need the floating bus emulation for an 800 model. This is indeed, a collateral side effect of checking for an invalid custom OS, such as Omnimon. They won't run correctly on Atari800 if it doesn't support floating bus emulation, at least not on 800 mode. And btw, the earliest EA releases require an 800, they don't run on XL/XE machines.

 

Quote

Altirra has it as an "option" in the menu but it must duplicate some of the behavior of the bus with that option unchecked.

Altirra supports two different level of floating bus emulation. One is always enabled and that is enough here.

See Phaeron's comment about the details of the two different options:

 

 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by ijor

[Shannon]

ok.  Thanks for that info.  I was getting my information from one of Phaeron's Doc which didn't mention that by default it implements a single floating bus.  I just knew he had it as an option because it was resource intensive.   I did see comments about Wargames in the source code when I was glancing through it.

 

That's just an interesting piece of information.  For the longest time I never even heard of dual floating buses on the Atari 800.

[Shannon]

I got another question that's non necessarily protection related.  But the S.A.G.A. series.. How come it stops at 7 and then picks up again at 13?  Did 7 thru 12 even exists?  It just seems odd there would be non.. not even "cracked" versions..

 

[Mr Robot]

AI loved a rehash. here's a list of the scott adams adventures

 

Adventure #0 - Special Sampler (1979) (Adventureland demo)

Adventure #1 - Adventureland (1978)

Adventure #2 - Pirate Adventure (1979)

Adventure #3 - Secret Mission (1979)

Adventure #4 - Voodoo Castle (1979)

Adventure #5 - The Count (1979)

Adventure #6 - Strange Odyssey (1979)

Adventure #7 - Mystery Fun House (1979)

Adventure #8 - Pyramid of Doom (1979)

Adventure #9 - Ghost Town (1980)

Adventure #10 - Savage Island (1980)

Adventure #11 - Savage Island Part Two (1981)

Adventure #12 - Golden Voyage (1981)

Adventure #13 - Sorcerer of Claymorgue Castle (1984)

Adventure #14 - Return to Pirate's Isle (1984)

 

These started as text only adventures and then were re-released as graphic adventures. Only the first 6 were re-released.

Number 13 was the first adventure that never got a text only version, it started as a graphic adventure. There is a lot more twisty turny stuff with AIUK releases, questprobe and other ventures.

 

 

http://www.ifwiki.org/index.php/Scott_Adams

 

[www.atarimania.com]

The Sorcerer of Claymorgue Castle does exist as a text version. The fourteenth adventure didn't make it to the Atari.

[Mr Robot]

Mobygmes let me down https://www.mobygames.com/game/sorcerer-of-claymorgue-castle

 

[Shannon]

10 hours ago, Mr Robot said:

AI loved a rehash. here's a list of the scott adams adventures

 

Adventure #0 - Special Sampler (1979) (Adventureland demo)

Adventure #1 - Adventureland (1978)

Adventure #2 - Pirate Adventure (1979)

Adventure #3 - Secret Mission (1979)

Adventure #4 - Voodoo Castle (1979)

Adventure #5 - The Count (1979)

Adventure #6 - Strange Odyssey (1979)

Adventure #7 - Mystery Fun House (1979)

Adventure #8 - Pyramid of Doom (1979)

Adventure #9 - Ghost Town (1980)

Adventure #10 - Savage Island (1980)

Adventure #11 - Savage Island Part Two (1981)

Adventure #12 - Golden Voyage (1981)

Adventure #13 - Sorcerer of Claymorgue Castle (1984)

Adventure #14 - Return to Pirate's Isle (1984)

 

These started as text only adventures and then were re-released as graphic adventures. Only the first 6 were re-released.

Number 13 was the first adventure that never got a text only version, it started as a graphic adventure. There is a lot more twisty turny stuff with AIUK releases, questprobe and other ventures.

 

 

http://www.ifwiki.org/index.php/Scott_Adams

 

 

ok.  Thanks for the info.  I was just wondering if they just never continued converting the originals into the new graphic adventure or if those particular titles were just not around for archiving.

 

BTW Adventures #2 and #4 .. I tried the .ATX files in the latest archive made available and all I get is a screen saying that if it is a single disk game to flip the disk and press enter.  If a two disk game to insert the second disk.  I didn't have this issue with other ones in the archive or with the ATR files that I currently have.

 

[+DjayBee]

24 minutes ago, Shannon said:

Adventures #2 and #4 .. I tried the .ATX files in the latest archive made available and all I get is a screen saying that if it is a single disk game to flip the disk and press enter.

These disks boot from side B.

The latest guess about the reason was that side A has a write notch and can therefore be used for saved games, which would be impossible if the game data would be on side B.

[Shannon]

Weird.. I could have sworn I tried booting from Side B... But it seems to be ok now.

 

Thanks

 

[Shannon]

I hope I'm not driving you guys crazy with all these questions.  I have another one.  I'm just trying to figure out if it is an emulator issue or a protection issue.

 

Spy vs Spy and Spy vs Spy II.  When running them in the Atari 800 emulator.  Once the game loads it skips the options screen where you can set the options and starts running the game.  Is this a result of copy protection checks failing?

 

Thank you,

Edit.  Just for kicks I downloaded the xex versions from fandal's site and they appear to have the same behavior.  So that makes me lean towards some issue with the Atari 800 emulator.  The games work perfectly fine in Altirra.  So maybe an issue with how Atari 800 handles the option/select/start keys?

 

Edit 2:  Found this in Altirra release notes..

 

- This game wins the Stupid Atari Trick of the Day award for using the joystick port output register (PORTA) to hold an XOR encryption key. Fixed.

 

So I'm gonna take a look and see if that is the issue.

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by Shannon

[phaeron]

10 hours ago, Shannon said:

I hope I'm not driving you guys crazy with all these questions.  I have another one.  I'm just trying to figure out if it is an emulator issue or a protection issue.

 

Spy vs Spy and Spy vs Spy II.  When running them in the Atari 800 emulator.  Once the game loads it skips the options screen where you can set the options and starts running the game.  Is this a result of copy protection checks failing?

Spy vs Spy has a dependency on the power-up value of the KBCODE register. This is undefined until a key is hit, but in practice it powers up with $00, which is what Altirra uses. Atari800 is powering up with KBCODE=$FF and this causes Spy vs Spy to immediately start the game each time, possibly some sort of demo mode. You can trigger similar behavior in Altirra with by typing a Ctrl+key.

[Shannon]

Oh wow.. thanks Phaeron... after reading all that fancy dancy PORTB handling code in version 1.3 it looks like the solution is simpler.  I will look into what you just mentioned and see if I can cook up something.  Thank you.

[Shannon]

Just an update. 

 

@phaeron  Thanks alot!  That did the trick.

I looked at the code and it was initializing KBCODE to 0x255.  So I changed that to 0x00 and problem solved!  So that makes for another thing fixed in Atarixlbox!  Earlier I implemented bank switch handling code for 5200 64k and 512k carts.  Does anyone know if 5200 images exist for 128k or 256k?  I haven't tried that yet cause I don't know of any to test.  I even updated the GTIA code to properly run Bosconian.  Which works good in XE mode.. still has weird display issues in 5200 mode that I have to figure out.

 

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by Shannon

[djmat56]

Hi all. I used to contribute back in the day. In fact, I believe a lot of the tape images on the site are my uploads. Anyway, I have just received a large box of disks from a fellow member on here in the states and there are a fair few originals in there. I don't have a kryoflux or anything like that but can create ATX images with Respeqt and my 1050 in Super Archiver mode. would it be worth me creating a list of all the originals to see if any of them are missing?

[+Allan]

2 hours ago, djmat56 said:

Hi all. I used to contribute back in the day. In fact, I believe a lot of the tape images on the site are my uploads. Anyway, I have just received a large box of disks from a fellow member on here in the states and there are a fair few originals in there. I don't have a kryoflux or anything like that but can create ATX images with Respeqt and my 1050 in Super Archiver mode. would it be worth me creating a list of all the originals to see if any of them are missing?

Yes, of course.

[Shannon]

I've been going through some of these images.. lately and I made an interesting observation about Bouderdash (Prime Leisure).  Being that it is a UK/GB release of course I set the system to PAL.  Well it appears the timing on the demo mode is off so Rockford manages to get stuck in some unusual situations!    I did some more testing and switched to NTSC mode and of course the demo mode is fine.  So I guess they didn't take much care in porting this particular title.  Something I gather happened quite a lot!

 

[Mclaneinc]

By the time it hit Prism it was being pushed out at a budget price, I doubt there was any care as long as it had their label on it. This would be the case with pretty much any budget title, unless the original coder bothered to address US / UK then no changes would be made later in its life.

[djmat56]

This is the list of original disks......

 

Kyan Pascal for Atari - Kyan
Microsoft Basic - Atari
Microsoft Basic II - Atari
Antic vol.6 no.4 - Atari Muscle
Antic vol.5 no.8 - Shoppers guide
Antic vol.5 no.10 - Inside Atari
Antic vol.6 no.1 - Anniversary issue
Antic vol.5 no.9 - Talking Typewriter
Compute Disk vol.10 no.4
APX disk 2 - Pascal Compiler
GT Albert E. Spreadsheet - Indus Systems
GT Data Manager - Indus Systems
Dos XL Master disk - Indus Systems
Visicalc - Visicorp
Paperclip - Batteries Included
Adventure Master (disks 1 and 2) - CBS Software
Shamus - Synapse
Ultima II - Sierra Online
Exodus Ultima III - Origin Systems
Ultima IV - Origin Systems
Music Construction Set - Electronic Arts
Realm of Impossibility - Electronic Arts
Spartados Multi I/O - ICD
Family Finances II - Atari
P:R: connection - ICD
ABC Basic compiler - Monarch Data Systems
Lode Runner - Broderbund
Choplifter - Broderbund
A.E. - Broderbund
Blue Max - Synapse
Telengard - Avalon Hill
Zork III - Infocom
Hacker - Activision
Castle Wolfenstein - Muse
Space Games - Keypunch Software
Diskwiz - Allen Macroware
Printwiz - Allen Macroware
Raid Over Moscow - Access Software
Top Gunner Collection - Microprose
Caverns of Mars - Atari
Zaxxon - Datasoft

[AtariGeezer]

Spartados Multi I/O - ICD -< Nice

[Mclaneinc]

So good to hear all this is ticking away in the background, thanks to all involved...

[toddtmw]

1 hour ago, djmat56 said:

This is the list of original disks......

 

Kyan Pascal for Atari - Kyan
Microsoft Basic - Atari
Microsoft Basic II - Atari
Antic vol.6 no.4 - Atari Muscle
Antic vol.5 no.8 - Shoppers guide
Antic vol.5 no.10 - Inside Atari
Antic vol.6 no.1 - Anniversary issue
Antic vol.5 no.9 - Talking Typewriter
Compute Disk vol.10 no.4
APX disk 2 - Pascal Compiler
GT Albert E. Spreadsheet - Indus Systems
GT Data Manager - Indus Systems
Dos XL Master disk - Indus Systems
Visicalc - Visicorp
Paperclip - Batteries Included
Adventure Master (disks 1 and 2) - CBS Software
Shamus - Synapse
Ultima II - Sierra Online
Exodus Ultima III - Origin Systems
Ultima IV - Origin Systems
Music Construction Set - Electronic Arts
Realm of Impossibility - Electronic Arts
Spartados Multi I/O - ICD
Family Finances II - Atari
P:R: connection - ICD
ABC Basic compiler - Monarch Data Systems
Lode Runner - Broderbund
Choplifter - Broderbund
A.E. - Broderbund
Blue Max - Synapse
Telengard - Avalon Hill
Zork III - Infocom
Hacker - Activision
Castle Wolfenstein - Muse
Space Games - Keypunch Software
Diskwiz - Allen Macroware
Printwiz - Allen Macroware
Raid Over Moscow - Access Software
Top Gunner Collection - Microprose
Caverns of Mars - Atari
Zaxxon - Datasoft

One request. Please do not try to read any of these in an Atari (or any other kind of) drive. Sometimes, we may only get one chance to read an old disk before it starts to deteriorate.

 

I looked these up in the A8Pres database. Depending on some of the dates and versions, the ones I listed below look like they would be worth attempting to dump. I have a Kryoflux and live in the United States. If you live in the US and want to send these to me to preserve, I will attempt to dump them and then send the originals back to you.

Kyan Pascal for Atari - Kyan

Antic vol.6 no.4 - Atari Muscle

Antic vol.5 no.8 - Shoppers guide

Antic vol.5 no.10 - Inside Atari

Antic vol.6 no.1 - Anniversary issue

Antic vol.5 no.9 - Talking Typewriter

Compute Disk vol.10 no.4

APX disk 2 - Pascal Compiler

GT Albert E. Spreadsheet - Indus Systems

GT Data Manager - Indus Systems

Dos XL Master disk - Indus Systems

Paperclip - Batteries Included

Music Construction Set - Electronic Arts

Realm of Impossibility - Electronic Arts

Spartados Multi I/O - ICD

Family Finances II - Atari

P:R: connection - ICD

ABC Basic compiler - Monarch Data Systems

Telengard - Avalon Hill

Zork III - Infocom

Castle Wolfenstein - Muse

Diskwiz - Allen Macroware

Printwiz - Allen Macroware

 

[djmat56]

Hi. Unfortunately I live in the UK and paid to have these disks sent over from the US. Postage is expensive and would love to help out in any way. More than happy to dump myself with the 1050. Its a good drive in good working order and nice and clean. All disks will be inspected before use. Tried some of the copied disks I got with the bundle and read fine

[toddtmw]

Yes. We do not want to send these internationally. 
 

It is my understanding that the preference is to kryoflux them. Perhaps someone in UK with a kryoflux could dump them for you?