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Farb

Atari 8-bit Software Preservation Initiative

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I'd suggest one of the many completely free and highly rated other torrent clients then as clearly there is something not working miss configure or blocked for you.. as asked before you could pm me your ip and I would attempt to force the torrent to connect to you...

 

12 seeds 13 peers.... atm

 

in any event back to what the thread is about. the preservation project....

 

troubleshooting should be at some other forum, in pm's or a thread of it's own...

Edited by _The Doctor__

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It has been mentioned it's available in just about every way a person wishes to consume it.

zipped not zipped, more than one torrent, http, ftp(though I took mine down) cloud...

I think multiple torrents is a bad idea - it makes the pool of seeds fragmented.

 

I am not sure how we can make it more convenient.

Well you already know my answer to this. I appreciate the effort, but by zipping them files together you "fixed" what wasn't broken in the first place.

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didn't try to fix anything, and if someone starts another torrent but in the format you are looking for then maybe they can call it no zip preserved... it's something they chose to do... I didn't initiate the other torrents so that's something you can take up with them..

zips take up less space, transfer faster.. and decompress super fast... I apologize if that extra click is a bother.. for most it's all automatic and isn't even noticed... at this point what is it I can do to make you happy... as this can go round and round.... do you want two or three torrents and two or three clouds and two or three ftp and two or three http from here on out.. since some prefer a zip of zips, some prefer just a zip, and some prefer no zips at all... it would be the only way to appease all tastes... I though it was pretty well covered... but I guess double or triple of could be done...

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There are problems with some of the publishers. For instance, most of the Zeppelin Games programs should be under MD Software / Micro-Discount (IIRC, original Zeppelin Games titles on disk were only available by writing to the software publisher so are extremely rare).

I disagree ;) Some disk versions of Zeppeling games were created by MD indeed, but most of them were made by ANG Software. Derek Fern could only create disk versions by using Transdisk, so he asked ANG to create the disks. Most of MD disk versions came from ANG, especially those sold from 1994. I have copied loads of games for ANG, including the disks for MD and Powersoft. And I have letters between ANG and MD to prove it.

 

Plus UK store Gralin had a license to publish some Zeppelin games on disk in the eighties.

 

Edit: your comment is probably about the torrent.... ;)

 

On a personal note: I am surprised about the bad vibes in the last few pages of this topic :?

Edited by Fred_M
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ah I see you are having the same fun I used to have... trying to explain how the hamburger/sausages/minces were made :)

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On a personal note: I am surprised about the bad vibes in the last few pages of this topic :?

 

I would agree that it feels a bit more negative than it should. This is our first torrent release in almost a year and represents the most contributors I've ever had the pleasure of working with in my 6 years of doing it. Every contributor has worked hard and brings their own opinions and working styles to the project. Unfortunately, not all of those opinions are necessarily going to align but that is simply reality when there are many people involved. I realize that most comments and criticism are intended constructively, but it doesn't always come across that way in posts. The point of all this is to have fun and share what we've accomplished with the larger community. Let's keep things fun and continue this awesome momentum we've managed to build!

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All the tests show OK. I changed the ports, and updated the DHT trackers. Still only 1 seed & 0 peer.

 

I announced the torrent on udp://tracker.coppersurfer.tk:6969 add the tracker and you should at least see one peer.

 

 

almost all torrents are decentralized these day, we don't need to use trackers and in fact many of the better torrent search/index sites no longer provide public or private trackers... however, I did ask if anyone wished for favorite trackers when kicking off and no one sent a PM or posted one... anybody can add a tracker to their torrent seed if they wish though.... just click add tracker and type/paste one in... or in qbits case paste a whole list of them in.

 

if you are not getting more seeds or peers, you are miss-configured in either your firewall, your router, or your bit torrent software.. or worst case your ISP has no love for torrents... You might try letting people know what torrent software you are using, and your ISP to get some pointers or go to the torrent software sites help forums... not all torrent clients work the same... I am using qBit but I see the full range of other clients in the swarm.

I prefer to _not_ use DHT, PEX and all the other 'smart' ways to distribute the information on the network. I will leave my server seeding the torrent for now and will continue to announce it on the aforementioned tracker.

Edited by SenorRossie

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senorrossie 's prefered tracker added as promised.
as mentioned earlier a pm with what would be preferred and I'll add it in.
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/234684-atari-8-bit-software-preservation-initiative/?p=4053755

to all leechers :)

PM your list of favorite Public trackers that are a)consistent and b)leet ;)

_The Road Warrior__

mentions of a PM to add trackers or make changes were to keep the thread clean, happy, and tidy :)

 

I'm happy with it's progress, really rolled out pretty quickly

Edited by _The Doctor__

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senorrossie 's prefered tracker added as promised.

Thanks! I missed the announcement with regards to the tracker procedure.

 

Also thanks to all that contributed over the years, be it by providing missing software, knowledge or both!

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For anyone who's never used a torrent client before, I'm currently using qBittorrent and quite like it. It's open source and available for all platforms.

 

https://www.qbittorrent.org/

 

(The seed is doing great this morning, as you can see below):

 

post-30400-0-34475900-1529846378_thumb.jpg

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Thanks, just checked and this one seems allowed on the private trackers I'm a member of. I'll give it a try :) don't like Vuze anyways.

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Don't worry the party is going to be going on for quite a while, as the saying goes... The more the merrier! It's a rambling, rolling party, and those often turn out to be the best ;)

 

and of course any new original source materials people can dig up will go a long way towards more party bliss!

Edited by _The Doctor__

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The biggest issue I have with this project is the exclusive focus on emulation. Recreating copy protected physical disks that work from this archive, is, for all intents and purposes, so difficult and unreliable as to be effectively impossible.

 

The new Applesauce flux imaging board is supposed to be 100% effective at writing out working images, unlike the Kryoflux, and uses common and cheap Apple II drives. Despite the obvious focus on Apple, the makers made a point of testing the new system with Atari disks, and have been reporting excellent results in comparison to Kryoflux.

 

The software for Applesauce is only available for Mac right now. Hopefully, there will be a way to convert ATX's into Applesauce's format, but I doubt it.

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Btw, what about a remaining list or missing software list? So we can see, how far we are away from full digitizing? Would be cool, Merkel is speaking about this and we are close to finish it. ;-)

A "missing" list is a bit challenging because it implies we have a list of every known piece of software released for Atari 8-bits :-) Fortunately, AtariWiki's scope is a little more confined and makes maintaining an accurate list a little easier.

 

Having said that, I do need to create a page on the site that lists the releases we are currently aware of for which there are no dumps. I plan to do this well before Fujiama this year so I can ask people to bring disks that we need if they have them.

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The biggest issue I have with this project is the exclusive focus on emulation.

I'm not sure where you got this impression. This project is focused on creating and archiving flux-level dumps of diskettes using currently available tools (which originally only meant Kryoflux and now includes SuperCard Pro). We happen to distribute disk images to the community in an emulation-friendly format but that doesn't mean our focus is emulation.

 

Recreating copy protected physical disks that work from this archive, is, for all intents and purposes, so difficult and unreliable as to be effectively impossible.

As luckybuck pointed out, using a SuperCard Pro, a standard PC drive and a8rawconv is reasonably easy and reliable. Most ATX images we have written back to physical disk work just fine.

 

The new Applesauce flux imaging board is supposed to be 100% effective at writing out working images, unlike the Kryoflux, and uses common and cheap Apple II drives. Despite the obvious focus on Apple, the makers made a point of testing the new system with Atari disks, and have been reporting excellent results in comparison to Kryoflux.

We are always open to new technology that makes life easier. I have to imagine the pool of working PC floppy drives is greater than the pool of working Apple II drives but who knows. If the Applesauce board proves to be a reliable way to write back Atari disks, I'm sure someone will take on the challenge of creating a program to convert Kryoflux and SuperCard Pro flux dumps to Applesauce. Then we will be able to create Applesauce files for every title we have dumped.

 

The software for Applesauce is only available for Mac right now. Hopefully, there will be a way to convert ATX's into Applesauce's format, but I doubt it.

I'll definitely be paying attention to the Applesauce project. I'm STILL waiting to see the Kryoflux team start creating IPF images from Atari 8-bit dumps which would allow for perfect write-back to disks with Kryoflux. They've been saying it's "coming soon" for several of years now... so we all know the best of intentions may not achieve the desired effect.

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The biggest issue I have with this project is the exclusive focus on emulation. Recreating copy protected physical disks that work from this archive, is, for all intents and purposes, so difficult and unreliable as to be effectively impossible.

 

The new Applesauce flux imaging board is supposed to be 100% effective at writing out working images, unlike the Kryoflux, and uses common and cheap Apple II drives. Despite the obvious focus on Apple, the makers made a point of testing the new system with Atari disks, and have been reporting excellent results in comparison to Kryoflux.

 

The software for Applesauce is only available for Mac right now. Hopefully, there will be a way to convert ATX's into Applesauce's format, but I doubt it.

 

In the past, one of the contributors has created archives of cracked-but-otherwise-original versions of .ATR files; basically, the software has been modified to remove the disk copy protection routines so that they can be written to disk by unmodified drives and used on real hardware that way. Look for Djaybee's CSS Cracks.

Edited by DrVenkman
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In the past, one of the contributors has created archives of cracked-but-otherwise-original versions of .ATR files; basically, the software has been modified to remove the disk copy protection routines so that they can be written to disk by unmodified drives and used on real hardware that way. Look for Djaybee's CSS Cracks.

Just to be clear, GlowingGhoul specifically mentions recreating copy-protected disks which this approach would not accomplish. Cracks are interesting to play with but not particularly useful for preservation purposes.

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Farb it totally right:

"

I'm sure someone will take on the challenge of creating a program to convert Kryoflux and SuperCard Pro flux dumps to Applesauce.

"

Only with the done work, it is possible to compare all the images, in order to get behind it for understanding. Afterwards a converter is much easier to realize. If we have different images from just one original disk, it is like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_Stone

 

Regarding original hardware: no one prevent just any user to use SIO2SD or SIO2USB... Less power consuming, silent, near the whole archive on one card...

 

Content-List: Well, maybe we create a text file open for all to edit? So, if someone has some software, which is not on the list, he/she can add it there. Of course, it takes time, but seems to be the best way in my opionion...

 

Just loud thinking: What about adding folders to the archive? ROM, ATR, ATX, CAS etc.? Over 1,000 items in one folder may slow down some machines?

Edited by luckybuck
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So long as we have the preserved real images we can copy, do cracks, cracks and do whatever afterwords for eternity because we can always go back to the preserved images of our originals... :)

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Mmmmhhh, recent findings, I can't talk about, gives the impression, that 35 years seems to be the end of life for magnetic layers from the 80's...

I don't want to create stress, but the sooner, we can digitize the remaining ones, the better it is...

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The new Applesauce flux imaging board is supposed to be 100% effective at writing out working images, unlike the Kryoflux, and uses common and cheap Apple II drives. Despite the obvious focus on Apple, the makers made a point of testing the new system with Atari disks, and have been reporting excellent results in comparison to Kryoflux.

...

The software for Applesauce is only available for Mac right now. Hopefully, there will be a way to convert ATX's into Applesauce's format, but I doubt it.

 

Any new hardware that allows reading and writing copy protected disks is very welcome. But honestly, I don't see what this board has, that the others do not. I read quickly the Applesauce wiki page. Some of the complains mentioned in that wiki about the Kryoflux are valid, but most of them are, IMHO, greatly exaggerated or plain wrong.

 

I don't see this board being better for writing back images than, say, the SCP. May be it would be better for Apple images because they can interface with an Apple drive, and because the whole design was made with Apple disks in mind. But otherwise for Atari, again, doesn't seem to be much of a difference if at all.

 

The most difficult part of writing back Atari 8-bit copy protected disks is not the hardware, but the software!. All the boards working at the flux transition level are good enough, and that includes not only the SCP and the Kryoflux, but also the Catweasel and the Happy Discovery Cartridge.

 

It shouldn't be very difficult to convert images to the Applesauce format ... if somebody insists.

 

Btw, why all of them are so biased to their own product? This is a small retro niche market. Some honest and friendly competition is ok and even good. But this is not Apple vs Samsung. Personally I dislike this "aggressive marketing" attitude a lot, especially when it comes to retro computing.

Edited by ijor
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