snicklin Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) Makary's Edit has so much flaws, you'd like to throw the A8 out of the window, by all the faulty sounds and wrong adjusted pitches. Could there please be some politeness to others who have also offered so much on here? Whether or not you consider his work perfect or abject, most people would like to encourage people to produce something if they can. He's done plenty of good work too (including the Zybex version). It's so easy to pick up someone else's work when they've done hours and hours of work on it and then find some flaws, ignoring everything that they've put together. How would you like it if a boss came to you and told you that your work was full of flaws after you've slaved away and someone has produced work which is 95% great? And even if you don't agree with the 95% assessment, that is your opinion. Suggesting improvement ideas is one thing, writing a sentence like above is just despicable. I suspect that you are jealous that someone else comes on here and demonstrates some good music. Don't want someone to steal your trophy? Edited May 10, 2016 by snicklin 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 I'm the judge here. This topic is about RMT Patch 8. Not about PoKey theory nor personal discussions. I suspect that you are jealous that someone else comes on here and demonstrates some good music. Don't want someone to steal your trophy? No, I suspect this nagging already started from makary's comments. He seems to be jealous when emkay's versions sound better. Makary's Edit has so much flaws, you'd like to throw the A8 out of the window, by all the faulty sounds and wrong adjusted pitches. Just stop talking this way. Just let him go. We don't need to argue with him. OK, maybe it is true what you say, but the truth isn't much fun many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) Just stop talking this way. Just let him go. We don't need to argue with him. OK, maybe it is true what you say, but the truth isn't much fun many times. A true sentence had to be written. If people want to read it the wrong way, I cannot stop them to do so. I'm really out of ideas, how to get people doing "music" with POKEY. And, how wrong things are, you see in Snicklin's post. After 35 years of "A8" there is no interest, no acceptance and whatelse not... After Makary did some of those tunes, I thought there was interest in doing POKEY music. Offering some cooperation again gets blocked. For some "others" : Putting some notes onto patterns with some POKEY sounds takes hours. The finetune takes "days" (approx. 10 times of main tune editing) with the current softare. But "everyone" could use some tune and change some sounds... ? If it's all so easy , what stops them doing the same, bringing their own taste of music with proper instruments? And: btw. @Snicklin: If I'd do always less than 100% work, people could get injured or even die. And, If I weren't able to present sometimes additional extras, I'd lose my customers. Tezz asked questions, And I gave the related Answers. Without Snicklin's unnecessary post, the sentence would work like a note to think of. In other threads I explained, why it is not possible to show effective settings in a Tracker, because the controls were passive. You'd have to check POKEY's current values and waves and then adjust the registers for the next cycle. The better the precision of the emulation, the better and sharper the waveshapes could be created. And with a parallel calculation, you could set the registers automatically... to have a clean instrument played... And now back to the topic. Edited May 10, 2016 by emkay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I like to respect what people have to offer, though I can suggest amendments (like I did for the control mechanism in Chimera+). We can all do that. But remain polite with the creators, that is all I ask. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I like to respect what people have to offer, though I can suggest amendments (like I did for the control mechanism in Chimera+). We can all do that. But remain polite with the creators, that is all I ask. If Albert allows me one post, to be not polite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Tezz asked questions, And I gave the related Answers. I think you meant to type Wrathchild asked questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 I think you meant to type Wrathchild asked questions Ofcourse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 (edited) Have you ever realized that RMT doesn't support 16 Bit for music? I'm not a producer of music, when I do try I'd tend to use the codebase of a player (e.g. Draconus, IK, Storm). I am trying to elicit requirements as improving or creating the tools for others to more easily achieve their goals is a typical engineer's aim. RMT I like but find not as intuitive and that can be demonstrated by trying a pattern of the Final Fantasy theme. Using RMT 1.28 this short example almost gets there but loses it at the high notes. The same .rmt file loaded into Patch 8 outputs differently ('b' file). If I am understanding this correctly, it can be explained by looking at posts 2 & 8 of this topic where it can be seen the patch table doesn't cover the range this tune needs. Well... that maybe true however for me the 'user', if I tell the tracker to play note X in octave Y then that is what I want to hear. Its a big ask to develop another level of understanding required to know... "I need another instrument to play the same/similar 'sound' but at at different clock frequency to permit the correct note to be played". Additionally, the inclusion of the AUDCTL values in the instrument definition seems wrong. The use of notes played on diferent channels in the same pattern position using different instruments potentially causes conflicts between what the value written to AUDCTL will be and hence could affect channels. How practical it is to have the tracker determine which clock frequency is best at any given point in the song would be ambitious. ff3_test.zip Edited May 11, 2016 by Wrathchild 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 (edited) Analmux, the zip-file in the first post appears to contain older (original) versions of the c6502 and pokey dlls (based on A800 1.2.4)? The playback on those didn't seem as good as later ones produced in 2005 based on A800 1.3.6. I don't know if these have been brought up to date since then and not sure how much work that would be, but could be worth a look if better playback in RMT would result. Edited May 11, 2016 by Wrathchild Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 @ Wrathchild Have you ever realized that RMT doesn't support 16 Bit for music? What emkay means is you can play the 16-bit notes well, but RMT doesn't support any vibrato or portamento, that's all. A machine language bypass can be used to add vibrato and portamento as well. Using RMT 1.28 this short example almost gets there but loses it at the high notes. The same .rmt file loaded into Patch 8 outputs differently ('b' file). To check your FF3 tune I don't get it why you used 16-bit mode, but no 1.79 MHz mode. In fact the HSB values in voice 2 and 4 were put to zero. Normally voice 2 and 4 should be turned on. If I am understanding this correctly, it can be explained by looking at posts 2 & 8 of this topic where it can be seen the patch table doesn't cover the range this tune needs. No, that's not correct. How practical it is to have the tracker determine which clock frequency is best at any given point in the song would be ambitious. Sorry, but ''Overview Orchestra'' should already give much help. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/234769-rmt-patch-8/?p=3173080 http://atariage.com/forums/topic/234769-rmt-patch-8/?p=3172382 This shows that the FF3 song can be played with Patch 8 without any problem. You don't even need 16-bit notes. A single 8-bit version is possible already. You can use the full 9 octave scale. It is no problem if you just ask more detailed questions about Patch 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 I'm always happy to be shown other new ways to increase my understanding, and I'd expect others would too. If you can apply different instruments/settings to the ff3 rmt file to demonstrate then please do. I wanted the pure tone so chose dist. A. The #8 post table under that setting ends at C# which is the same point the playback is wrong, hence why I had linked the two. It would be helpful to elaborate upon "that's not correct" to explain why and how, for 16-bit, I would correct it? Also, what Patch 8 changed that the same instructions in Rmt 1.28 play more notes (almost) correctly. My choice of 2 * 16-bit channels is that is because 2 is all the tune requires and it is generally accepted that the note accuracy you can get with 16-bit is better than 8. As a frame of reference the non-RMT version of the tune I made is attached (sources are here). Best wishes, Mark ff3_tune.xex 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 15kHz filter test. 4x speed to reduce the intial sounds, but it interferes with the emulations at the start. Restrictions: I had to cut the highest note, as the Patch 8 is "full" and jumps to a low note there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Can you please also post screenshots of the instrument settings as those weren't shown in the video? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 (edited) Can you please also post screenshots of the instrument settings as those weren't shown in the video? The instruments were based on straight filter with modulation offset to have the higher sounds sounding high without cancelling, and the lower sounds sound more "fat" ... Edited May 12, 2016 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Sorry to ask a dump question but can the Windows binary not be turned back to some higher language to actually rewrite stuff except for patching? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 And... Is there really no chance to ask ppl/family/friends of Radek if there is access to the source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Hello guys Fandal was a close friend of Radek, maybe he can ask Radek's family. (Maybe he already did) Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted May 13, 2016 Author Share Posted May 13, 2016 It sounds amazing, but you still need to correct some dissonants. OK, here's a new try. Two days ago I corrected some dissonants. ZybexRmab.xex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 (edited) OK, here's a new try. Two days ago I corrected some dissonants. Someone should do a recording from the real thing. But; I'd say: Finally we have one tune that shows "enhanced" POKEY and what it means ... Edited May 13, 2016 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 (edited) Isn't it interesting? Someone created a POKEY replayer on the C64 , which results in several threads in AA and other boards. But, creating such "impossible" Sound with POKEy gets handled like "bleh" ... Mixing different styles into one tune is also not "on the Agenda" , while on the C64 Tunes exist with changing sound styles for up to an hour. Can someone explain that stereotype? Edited May 13, 2016 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Another old favorite, well just a loop of it... pure 15kHz, 2xVBI... now in Patch 8. Perhaps I should add some more different filter sweeps .... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) Someone interested in converting the Second Reality tune with RMT P8? Edited May 17, 2016 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 And another one, squeezed through Patch 8 in single VBI speed.... so this sound style you could find in any demo or game ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Perhaps I should add some more different filter sweeps .... wow. really nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 wow. really nice Yeah, POKEY is full of surprises Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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