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RMT Patch 8

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Just thinking out loud...

 

Would the NES FamiTracker framework make a good staring point for engineering a replacement / update to RMT?

You could use any PC Tracker with a reliable POKEY emulation. The question is, where to start.

 

Btw:

If using more than 1x VBI, particular 4x VBI, you're not longer restricted to use the hardware sounds only. You could mix the noise generators and the hardware modulations plus software modulations. On low and high sounds...

 

From 2x VBI on, you get always stable synths without recognizable correction noise. Play bass sounds at that high speed also produces additional "software sound" and reduces the Generator-distortions, when using 4 channels.

 

This one , you might know, in some cases ... using stable synths, 4 voices, software modulated sounds... and so on...

 

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Good work emkay, but what's the real benefit of using 4*VBI speed instead of using 2*VBI speed w.r.t. this song, using only hardware instruments?

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You could use any PC Tracker with a reliable POKEY emulation. The question is, where to start.

 

Btw:

If using more than 1x VBI, particular 4x VBI, you're not longer restricted to use the hardware sounds only. You could mix the noise generators and the hardware modulations plus software modulations. On low and high sounds...

 

From 2x VBI on, you get always stable synths without recognizable correction noise. Play bass sounds at that high speed also produces additional "software sound" and reduces the Generator-distortions, when using 4 channels.

 

This one , you might know, in some cases ... using stable synths, 4 voices, software modulated sounds... and so on...

 

That's killer.

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Emkay:

 

stop presenting others' chip music as if it's your own please. Messing up with instruments doesn't make you an author.

Edited by makary

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?

What they have in common is some of the mixing, as the mixing style is cool . And, if you think, it's just a "messing up with instruments" to have it sounding that way (as notations and notes were different in pitch and count, you'd still have to learn much about POKEY programming ;)

 

I could also say please stop creating mixes of available tunes, just as zybex. But why should I ?

 

It's the demonstrations of POKEY's sound capabilities, nothing else. Do you really feel offended by this?

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Maraky, just relax .... ;)

 

Emkay is an AA member for already 13 years. Most people know that emkay always makes an edit of an existing track, written by someone else. It was Always non provit. If you really don't like the title of his edits, then ask him to explicitly add the original composer's name.

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Maraky, just relax .... ;)

 

Emkay is an AA member for already 13 years. Most people know that emkay always makes an edit of an existing track, written by someone else. It was Always non provit. If you really don't like the title of his edits, then ask him to explicitly add the original composer's name.

Particular "Makary's" Track isn't just a "re edit", as done in the past, it only reminds of the "original". So I wonder what's the case exactly. But, actually, I wanted to have the mix fitting more to music. And since it was the only track of interest, he shouldn't fear of more "conversions" to come , as 4 times VBI can be used much more useful.

If only 16 bit was supported in RMT....

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I will second this. Some people may not like his posts or his music, but emkay has never tried to present other work as his own. They are always presented as edits, are not used in compilations, and never sold.

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I will second this. Some people may not like his posts or his music, but emkay has never tried to present other work as his own. They are always presented as edits, are not used in compilations, and never sold.

With the exception of some Free MOD files, to be honest. People heavily underestimate, what it means to have the correct sound played by POKEY. That's why 90% of POKEY tunes sound weird. RMT Patch 8 helps a lot out of the dilemma , that's why new demonstrations of several music styles should be there. I'd bet Even ROB Hubbard isn't able to code one tune on POKEY, using such advanced sounds, as almost nothing is really linear.

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Particular "Makary's" Track isn't just a "re edit", as done in the past, it only reminds of the "original".

OK, sorry, it's a free translation from scratch.

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Emkay:

 

I'm glad you're going to exclude the rest of my music from your experiments / reedits / translations from scratch or whatever you call it.

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Hey, I wasn't ready to release it ;)

Well, I wrote not to use his tunes, but zybex....

 

Here some mixery and main synth update.

 

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Hey, I wasn't ready to release it ;)

Sorry. ;)

 

Here some mixery and main synth update.

When will you correct the dissonants at the start?

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Sorry. ;)

 

 

When will you correct the dissonants at the start?

Let's see what I can find. For now it's the point of "If it cannot get nice, make it wild".

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What makes me more wondering: No likes for the latest tune? Well, the start is a little experimental, but the tune is well, particular the main synth...

OK, I realized that Altirra still uses a false base frequency for POKEY and some "special postprocessing is missing" ;)

 

It could be helpful, if people say "Hey, I like 2:33 to 3:01 or, hey 2:11 to 2:55 sounds odd to me". This could help finding anyone's taste in music to enhance such tunes...

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PoKey experts don't need any 'like' stamps. Just relax.

But some support could be helpful ;)

 

OK. Here another "update"

 

(x) better start

(x) mxing of different styles (Why? Just because !)

(x) fluent fx

(x) removed passive sounds

(x) added active programmed sounds

 

...

 

 

Edited by emkay
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Would any Pokey musician care to try dissecting something like the C64 Tetris tune and the variety of instruments used in that and demonstrate to others:

 

1) How RMT or other trackers are used to define and playback the instrument

 

2) If/where any shortcomings in the editors are.

 

3) Proposals as to how those can be overcome, what tweaks/dialogs would make it easier to sculpt the sounds?

 

4) The effect of using different clocks for the sound generation and/or/versus 1x..Nx updates per VBI

 

This can be done in 4 8-bit channels and also using dual pokey for 3 16-bit channels + the 4-bit sample channel to highlight limitations.

 

Is the consensus that you can currently achieve all that you want in composing a tune using RMT patch 8?

 

My impression in following the many threads to date is desire is to encourage the path of 'throw away & don't replicate' an instrument and instead 'use what pokey can do for you', is that a fair assessment?

 

 

Basically I'd like to move on from comments such as

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Would any Pokey musician care to try dissecting something like the C64 Tetris tune and the variety of instruments used in that and demonstrate to others:

 

1) How RMT or other trackers are used to define and playback the instrument

 

Instrument is a defintion . You have a unique soundstyle and the notation row can be adjusted together. If you can play a piece of music with it, it actually is an "instrument".

With the exception of 16 bit gen. A , you cannot do any instrument ... as it is defined ... with POKEY. So, where to find an explanation how to create an instrument? In RMT you have to use several different "Instruments" , to get a unique instrument.

As everything is strongly bound to maths and physics, you could handle that in a dedicated Tracker.

 

2) If/where any shortcomings in the editors are.

They are just missing

3) Proposals as to how those can be overcome, what tweaks/dialogs would make it easier to sculpt the sounds?

A sound creating tool, for making it possible to adjust POKEYs registers on the fly and help calculating the offset to program the Modulations directly.

 

4) The effect of using different clocks for the sound generation and/or/versus 1x..Nx updates per VBI

 

This can be done in 4 8-bit channels and also using dual pokey for 3 16-bit channels + the 4-bit sample channel to highlight limitations.

I'd go a bit further and use GTIA for digis aswell. So you could have POKEY playing all 4 channels and play digis. It could also get interesting, use both chips also with calculated offsets, for digi modulation FX. Not to talk about, if a Digi Track is running, you could mix all available frequency settings into a tune without breaking the tune...

Is the consensus that you can currently achieve all that you want in composing a tune using RMT patch 8?

Patch 8 uses available ressources of RMT, which allows to do a lot better music results, but also drops other available features.

 

My impression in following the many threads to date is desire is to encourage the path of 'throw away & don't replicate' an instrument and instead 'use what pokey can do for you', is that a fair assessment?

 

 

Basically I'd like to move on from comments such as

This is how it works with the available Trackers.

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...

 

You know what? We have a much bigger problem than a missing POKEY Tracker. If you see it from a realistic point of view,you haven't heared any better music as my latest "Zybex" edit played by POKEY. Makary's Edit has so much flaws, you'd like to throw the A8 out of the window, by all the faulty sounds and wrong adjusted pitches. But, the A8 scene has more positive feedback to offer to his version, than to my version. So there is no demand that the A8 "community" doesn't want POKEY to play music. So, from MY point of view, the A8 is lost in an empty space, when it comes to POKEY-Music...

Edited by emkay

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Thanks for the elaborations in post 97, for example 3 leads onto then requesting a 'for instance' (or many of them) such that thought can go into fleshing out the requirement in terms of "how can I represent those instructions in data", "how does the player interpret them", "effect of tremelo / vibrato" etc

 

"by all the faulty sounds and wrong adjusted pitches" - could this be where the "community" despairs because such statements aren't elaborated?

"Faulty sounds" in what respect? What does a 'scope show us and how does that differ from what was intended? Is the fault due to Pokey emulation in an emulator or dlls used by RMT?

"Wrong adjusted pitches" - by the author or as a result of the tables the tracker uses? Or where in the song and in relation to the original tunes note?

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Thanks for the elaborations in post 97, for example 3 leads onto then requesting a 'for instance' (or many of them) such that thought can go into fleshing out the requirement in terms of "how can I represent those instructions in data", "how does the player interpret them", "effect of tremelo / vibrato" etc

Could you write shorter sentences with more direct questions, please?

 

The musical FX , just like Tremolo / Vibrato, were just available in 8 bit resolution. The higher the pitch, the less useful . You could only do faster updates to reduce the recognized false pitch, or you use the modulations, to produce a resulting pitch inbetween the 8 bit resolution. Have you ever realized that RMT doesn't support 16 Bit for music?

"by all the faulty sounds and wrong adjusted pitches" - could this be where the "community" despairs because such statements aren't elaborated?

"Faulty sounds" in what respect? What does a 'scope show us and how does that differ from what was intended? Is the fault due to Pokey emulation in an emulator or dlls used by RMT?

Not "or".... it's actually "and". It's all about sound of the A8 software that has flaws. And it begins with the fact that POKEY wasn't intended as a chip for music creation at 1st. That's why you always have to do "non symmetric" ways, to get to a "symmetric" sound, and a Tool has to be written, to store the "non symmetric" part, to get a "symmetric handling" .

"Wrong adjusted pitches" - by the author or as a result of the tables the tracker uses? Or where in the song and in relation to the original tunes note?

Sorry, but you can hear the low and straight 15kHz resolution in the tune. Which makes it sound like a drunken Synthesizer.

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