Atarians : 5 Q's from TigerV2600 to 7800XM to Concerto Cart & more...

[ataritiger]

Hello,
- I am new here but I have a great curiosity for Atari, Sega, NEC and other older console companies and their products. I have some questions about the 7800, a very under rated and over looked console (while some of it is fair from Atari decisions to bad Audio and launch controller) but it has many great qualities in my opinion.

1) Why are homebrew games like Super Mario Bros 2600 or Zippy or Halo and many others not made for the 7800? Is it because the 2600 is easier to program for, or a combination of the 2600's popularity and also the easier programming? 7800 is more complicated I heard than the NES to program for, is this true? Games like Ninja Golf have great graphics almost on par with Master System with very vivid colors than the NES in my opinion, so 7800 homebrew could look really nice. Hoping a new version of Double Dragon and others are "XMed" like Donkey Kong.

2) About the Harmony 2 aka Harmony 7800 aka Concerto Cart...some of these topics are more than 4 years old, but will we finally get a 7800XM or Harmony7800 Cart both with High Scores, Pokey or Hokey or Gumby, 64k to 128k and other features actually releasing this year? And if so, what should I get the XM Base or Harmony 2? Both could play XM or big homebrew over 32k titles I guess?

http://www.nintendolife.com/forums/retro/the_official_atari_7800_game_and_hardware_update_thread
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/158374-harmony-cart-7800/
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/203015-7800-sd-cart/
http://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=1440.0

3) Why didn't "super 7800 carts" like Ninja Golf have audio at least? Super carts had less features than regular carts, but they cost more then? Were Ballblazer and Commando super carts? They should have been, they had Pokey or Gumby chips for better or more audio, more audio than actual super carts like Ninja Golf.

4) Are there any good TigerVision2600 games I could play on my 7800? Is Kong the best TigerV2600 game?

https://atariage.com/company_page.html?CompanyID=35

5) I took my 7800 apart to clean and noticed a board to the right, was that for the unreleased laserdisc add on? How cool would it have been if the Atari 7800 was released in 1984 and had an optional Laserdisc Digital Disc add on to play Dragon Liar? Would have been many firsts there. Atari would go against the Atari/NES system LOL.

Bonus Question : What are the top 5 homebrew 7800 carts/roms ever in your opinion?

Edit : Fixed typos in my post.

P.S. I might ask 5 more later, I will be very interested to read your amateur to expert Atarian discussions, replies and answers to my questions. One might be, did Atari create the Tengen moniker to avoid lawsuits or was it part of the Atari vs Sega lawsuit ?

- Eric

Edited February 8, 2015 by ataritiger

[Rhomaios]

Lots of questions, but I'll leave the details to the programmers. I'll just chime in here with my top 5 favorite 7800 homebrew:

 

Scramble

Astro Blaster

Pac-Man Collection

Beef Drop

Asteroids Deluxe or maybe Moon Cresta

 

I would say Donkey Kong XM, but as I don't have an XM and likely not going to get one (just assuming here, maybe one day I'll be able to get one), I can't hear its sounds. But I believe tep is coming out with a non-XM version, and then that would shoot to the top 5 for sure.

 

Other excellent things are coming out soon, too! Plutos and Sirios should be sent out soon, I think, Toki look amazing, and Bentley Bear is going to just rock it. I just can't wait until I can snag all of those!

 

Edit: Interpreting your question more broadly, the PMC 30th Anniversary multicart (Armor Attack, Crazy Brix, Failsafe, Meteor Shower, Moon Cresta, Pac-Man, Scramble, Space Invaders) even if there were a couple glitches, was still an awesome multicart.

[The Usotsuki]

The old Atari continued on as Tengen and was a separate company from the new Atari, but had rights to use the name in arcades provided they always followed it with "GAMES".

[accousticguitar]

1. The 2600 was way more popular back in the day and it still is today.

2. The XM is way overdue and it's hard to say when it will finally come out. The 7800 Harmony will likely be out soon, but neither project has regular updates.

4. Jawbreaker is a good game.

Bonus. My favorite 7800 homebrew is Rip-Off.

[8th lutz]

P.S. I might ask 5 more later, I will be very interested to read your amateur to expert Atarian discussions, replies and answers to my questions. One might be, did Atari create the Tengen moniker to avoid lawsuits or was it part of the Atari vs Sega lawsuit ?

 

- Eric

Atari did create the Tengen moniker from a legal aspect, but is caused by there actually being two Atari Companies.

 

For a time there actually was two Atari companies due to Jack Tramiel not buying Atari Inc.'s Arcade division. The arcade division of Atari Inc. became Atari games Corporation since Tramiel used the Atari name and called it Atari Corp. Tengen was used by Atari Games Corperation. for creating a division for home game console games and computer games.

Edited February 8, 2015 by 8th lutz

[ataritiger]

Thank you for the great answers so far. Some of the answers actually led me to ask more questions.

1B) Atari/Tengen making a Sega/Afterburner and Shinobi on the Nes system makes me smirk. I think Sega and Atari settled their lawsuit with some properties given to each? I expanded on this with the super question at the bottom of my post here.

2B) Is there actually an Atari mascot or big name character? Pac Man is a Namco property yes? Who would be the referee in "7800 Punch Out!!"?

3B) The Harmony2/7800/CC seems like a XM Module minus the Yamaha chip. Will Donkey Kong XM play on a Harmony 2? If so, I will buy Harmony7800 instead of 7800XM32X ha.

4B) Nintendo monopolized the era of 1986 to 1990 and got in trouble for it thank goodness, but did Sega ever plan on making 7800 games or was the Atari NES deal that fell flat but proposed, the Sega vs Atari lawsuit and competition of Master System mean no?

5B) Paralex Scrolling I heard was not meant for the 7800 or NES but program tricks made it possible on the 7800 and extra chips in NES carts made it possible. My question is, was a FX or SVP like chip ever proposed to help the Maria? Sega only had 1 cheat chip, Nintendo had many, even for more than 1 system but the 7800 Pokey chips are cheat chips in my opinion too. So since Atari had audio help did thye ever plan on video help? I game like Ballblazer or Robotron tells me no with smooth scrolling or many enemies on screen, but the 7800 might of needed polygon help right?

Bonus Question : Did Chad Shell in 2004 or so with the sd card 7800 flashcart inspire Krikzz to make his everdrives years later and other flashcart makers?

Super Question : So when Atari Inc a sub of Warner Company split in 1984, Atari Corp and Atari Games were the 2. Ok then Atari Corp folded or was bought by Hasbro at any case it is not around now? Only Atari Games were left basically but bought by Namco? Then Midway? Then sold back to Warner Bros? Then for many reasons just went under the sub company name Tengen? Then sold to Instagames by end of 20th century? Then sold back to Time Warner for 3rd time currently? If so, where did Atari US well once Atari France come from then? Or was Atari US a sub of Atari France/Instagames from 2001? I thought that was the actual Atari in modern times even the original Atari Vice President went on board to Atari France/US right?

However I now read Time Warner owns all the rights now so did Atari US file into Time Warner and now Warner is the Parent again but now Atari Games trademark is basically the new Atari Inc? I think Atari France filed for bankrupsy but Atari US made 75% of Atari money. Anybody care to explain the actuall full Atari Tree? Sega might one day have a tree like this. Or were there 3 or 4 Atari's after the Atari break up of 1984 like Atari Corp/Computers, Atari Games/Carts, Atari Arcade/Coin and Activision was basically the original Atari ha. Does Trammel get a % of whoever the heck uses the Atari logo? This is all VERY confusing to me, I would love an expert answer on this. Maybe a picture is needed ha because even this great answer confused me :

"Atari did create the Tengen moniker from a legal aspect, but is caused by there actually being two Atari Companies.

For a time there actually was two Atari companies due to Jack Tramiel not buying Atari Inc.'s Arcade division. The arcade division of Atari Inc. became Atari games Corporation since Tramiel used the Atari name and called it Atari Corp. Tengen was used by Atari Games Corperation. for creating a division for home game console games and computer games."

Ok so Atari Inc split, to Atari Corp/Computers and Atari Arcade/Coin/Games. Why would Atari games need a game division called Tengen? Wouldn't Atari Corp actually need to be Tengen to rival Atari Games then? I just think there were many reasons for the Tengen moniker from legal reasons within Atari and outside, to lack of Atari's name appeal in that era to settlements to rivals in the business.

Edit : I tried to post this under Tep's reply but it didn't let me post. Is there an error with this forum? Anyway I tried to say to him "There are many great sound engineers, music producers and audiophiles here. Tep is it possible to patch the Ninja Golf game with music or make an XM version using Pokey, Hokey, Gumby or the Yamaha chip? I think XM only has 2 advantages over Harmony7800/CC so far and that is Yamaha chip and 128k memory yes which I could play Zippy on 2600 mode of 7800? What exactly are XM games like Donkey Kong XM, just minor graphic and Pokey audio enhancement kind of super 7800 carts? What if I plug Ballblazer or Commando in XM, will it dectect another carts Pokey or disable XM Pokey for cart Pokey?" I'm leaning towards just getting the Harmony7800 unless the Atari 32XM can sway me somehow.

Edited February 8, 2015 by ataritiger

[tep392]

Thank you for the great answers so far. Some of the answers actually led me to ask more questions.

 

3B) The Harmony2/7800/CC seems like a XM Module minus the Yamaha chip. Will Donkey Kong XM play on a Harmony 2? If so, I will buy Harmony7800 instead of 7800XM32X ha.

 

I think the the best option is to have both. The Concerto will fill the need for an modern affordable multi-cart. The XM will be needed for games that use features not available on the Concerto. I know that I am planning on doing at least one game that will require the Yamaha. And there is no guarantee that the ROM will be available for all XM releases.

[ataritiger]

There are many great sound engineers, music producers and audiophiles here. Tep is it possible to patch the Ninja Golf game with music or make an XM version using Pokey, Hokey, Gumby or the Yamaha chip? I think XM only has 2 advantages over Harmony7800/CC so and that is Yamaha chip and 128k memory yes which I could play Zippy on 2600 mode of 7800? What exactly are XM games like Donkey Kong XM, just minor graphic and Pokey audio enhancement kind of super carts? What if I plug Ballblazer or Commando in XM, will it dectect another carts Pokey or disable XM Pokey for cart Pokey?

[8th lutz]

"Atari did create the Tengen moniker from a legal aspect, but is caused by there actually being two Atari Companies.

For a time there actually was two Atari companies due to Jack Tramiel not buying Atari Inc.'s Arcade division. The arcade division of Atari Inc. became Atari games Corporation since Tramiel used the Atari name and called it Atari Corp. Tengen was used by Atari Games Corperation. for creating a division for home game console games and computer games."

 

Ok so Atari Inc split, to Atari Corp/Computers and Atari Arcade/Coin/Games. Why would Atari games need a game division called Tengen? Wouldn't Atari Corp actually need to be Tengen to rival Atari Games then? I just think there were many reasons for the Tengen moniker from legal reasons within Atari and outside, to lack of Atari's name appeal in that era to settlements to rivals in the business.

 

Atari Games actually needed Tengen, not Atari Corp. Atari Corp had more than Computers. The split also gave Atari Corp the Atari 2600 and the leftover stuff of the Atari 5200. Atari Corp actually had to buy the right for the Atari 7800 and Atari 7800 games that were created before the split since Warner never owned the Atari 7800.

 

The legal aspect of the split allowed to Atari Corp to use it is name for publishing games for video game systems and for computers. The arcade division of Atari Inc. wasn't allowed to develop games for computers and video game systems under the Atari name including Atari Games Corp.

[8th lutz]

4B) Nintendo monopolized the era of 1986 to 1990 and got in trouble for it thank goodness, but did Sega ever plan on making 7800 games or was the Atari NES deal that fell flat but proposed, the Sega vs Atari lawsuit and competition of Master System mean no?

 

 

Super Question : So when Atari Inc a sub of Warner Company split in 1984, Atari Corp and Atari Games were the 2. Ok then Atari Corp folded or was bought by Hasbro at any case it is not around now?

4B.) I didn't remember anything about Sega planning to do Atari 7800 games. I don't think Sega had any intentions of doing 7800 games . The Atari and Nes deal was proposed, but that was under Atari Inc. in 1982 or 1983.

 

Atari Corp. didn't fold at all. It was merged with JTS. JTS get a rid of Atari Corp by selling it to Hosbro. Hasbro sold Atari Corp. to Infogrames. Right now, Infogrames has most of the rights of the properties that Atari Corp had.

[ataritiger]

Interesting, I can't seem to edit my posts in this thread anymore. Is there a 1 or 2 time edit post limit on this forum? Anyway, I came up with more questions after seeing that XM might not be compatible with all 7800 systems. Thank you to 8th so far for helping me understand Atari's history.

1C) There are 3 revisions of 7800 yes or 5 total? I also heard there were 2 versions of Maria chip, is this true? Luckily I have the US 7800 (maybe I still have the bundle box?) that came with PPII and was an early model even with expansion slot. I would like to mod it so it has composite video in back and a 1/8th audio jack like Genesis model 1. (Only if the XM sounds goes into 7800, if not I'd like the audio jack in XM because it will have Pokey and Yamaha). Who here is the best and cheapest at this kind of mod?

I guess these are the 3 if they come with box, picture 1 might be the 1984 model with expansion slot?
http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/7800/7800_84_box.jpg
http://atariage.com/forums/uploads/monthly_12_2013/post-1196-0-60293500-1387133683.jpg
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/photos/atari_7800pal_box_1.jpg
http://www.8-bitcentral.com/images/atari/7800/boxBottom.jpg
http://www.videogamemuseum.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Nolan-Bushnell-7800-Atari-Console-System-Prototype-Custom-Case-3.jpg

2C) Should I buy the AtariAge guy's NES/Sega pad mods, the Best Electronics Sega to Atari adapter, the AtariAge guy adapter or buy the CX78 which states 100% compatibility?

3C) I always thought Atari Games had the rights to 2600, 5200, etc but you are telling me Atari Corps did, interesting. Atari Corp paid GCC rights so the 7800 can become an Atari product like what Midway or Namco did with GCC after seeing their now called Ms Pac Man game? Did GCC make the Lynx in 1987? Any problems because the 7800 had 2600 parts in it? If Atari Corp owned the 2600,5200 and games rights, what did Atari Games have ha? Ironic. The then sister company with same name had to make a moniker to make games for it's sister company that had the Atari consoles. Mindblowing. I read Time Warner owns most of Atari's rights, but you are telling me Infogrames does. Interesting. Unless Time Warner just owns the Atari Games rights. Which I have no idea what products they even have. I'm sorry if I'm having trouble learning all this, but it is a long crazy tree of over 30 years.

4C) Follow up to that, so Atari Inc, a sub of The Warner Company, split in 1984 into Atari Corp and Atari Games. Ok then Atari Corp was sold by Warner to Trammel that then merged with JTS? Then sold to Hasbro and then finally sold to Infogrames? This includes the rights to 2600,5200 and 7800 and more but the patents are over now right? Anyway Atari Corp/Infogrames is what is it now basically. Atari Games, the other Atari were bought by Namco? Then Midway? Then sold back to Warner Bros? Then went under the moniker name Tengen? Then sold back to Time Warner for 3rd time currently? If so, where did Atari US well once Atari France come from then? Or was Atari US a sub of Atari France/Infogrames from 2001? I thought that was the actual Atari in modern times even the original Atari Vice President went on board to Atari France/US right? If not, Atari Games/Time Warner is what it is now basically.

5C) I love my Lynx II, and it even fixes an audio bug of original model, but will there ever be an everdrive or flashcart for the Lynx? More homebrews would be nice.

Edit : Sorry for my minor typos in my posts so far, I'm doing my best to type in English as properly as I can. I just noticed some typos in earlier posts, but sadly I cannot edit those posts.

Edited February 9, 2015 by ataritiger

[SIO2]

One thing you asked about is the Concerto cart. I do hope we see it available soon. I believe it would simplify and open up development on the 7800 the way Harmony did for 2600.

 

I am concerned though because many posts that I have read about Concerto start with the person asking if it has pokey, high score save, expanded memory, etc. Concerto has reportedly been redesigned several times and I have to wonder if part of why we are still waiting is that the developer is trying to please everyone and make the 7800 Universal Widget.

 

It is kind of the situation where I might want to fly to work in an antigravity hovercraft but a chevy could get me there.

[ataritiger]

I hear you and I'm guilty of it too. But the Harmony2/7800/CC seems to be like a XM Jr. It will have pokey or hokey, high score save, maybe 64k and can play 2600, 7800 and homebrews. So I think if it sells for $170 and XM with a bit more features sells for $250, one can really consider what they want however not lose much in comparison if they choose the Harmony cart.

I have one last question for a while. I read the 7800 does indeed have 2600 parts, like audio chip and others but the Maria slows down the 7800 so it goes in 2600 mode but basically another graphic chip or something just emulates the video graphics of 2600. So does the 7800 have all the 2600 parts or does it have 75% for hardware and 25% emulation, basically, chip tricks so the 7800 can display 2600 games and it is not 100% 2600 hardware inside the 7800?

[accousticguitar]

I believe there is a one hour time limit for editing.

[Trebor]

I have one last question for a while. I read the 7800 does indeed have 2600 parts, like audio chip and others but the Maria slows down the 7800 so it goes in 2600 mode but basically another graphic chip or something just emulates the video graphics of 2600. So does the 7800 have all the 2600 parts or does it have 75% for hardware and 25% emulation, basically, chip tricks so the 7800 can display 2600 games and it is not 100% 2600 hardware inside the 7800?

 

The 2600 TIA sound and graphics is one chip. There is not a separate sound TIA and separate graphics TIA chip. There is no emulation or chip tricks under 2600 mode.

 

Under 7800 mode, the console utilizes the sound portion of the TIA chip for its audio along with the audio pin from the cart slot for cartridges that contain a separate sound chip. The MARIA graphics chip is utilized for 7800 mode only.

 

Here's the motherboard labelled:

 

 

Referencing the above, the 6502C chip, the CPU, runs at 1.79MHz. It drops to 1.19MHz when the TIA chip or RIOT (the 6532 chip in the above) are being accessed.

[tep392]

Tep is it possible to patch the Ninja Golf game with music or make an XM version using Pokey, Hokey, Gumby or the Yamaha chip?

Most likely possible, but it would be a lot of work without sourcecode. It might also require a larger ROM depending on how much free space there might be.

 

What exactly are XM games like Donkey Kong XM, just minor graphic and Pokey audio enhancement kind of super carts?

I don't know about other XM games. Donkey Kong XM had major modifications from the Atari release. You can see a list here.

[tep392]

Will Donkey Kong XM play on a Harmony 2? If so, I will buy Harmony7800 instead of 7800XM32X ha.

The plan is to include the ROM with the Deluxe version of Concerto.

[Shaggy the Atarian]

 

2B) Is there actually an Atari mascot or big name character? Pac Man is a Namco property yes? Who would be the referee in "7800 Punch Out!!"?

 

Atari had a few characters which could be considered mascots, although I don't think they ever called them that at the time. Bentley Bear, Major Havoc, Robot1984, Yar, Commander Champion & the Atari Force, The knight from Adventure (although the dragons probably got more attention). Tramiel-era Atari was obviously very lousy at using any of them and in the Jaguar-era they were trying to cook up new mascots like Oswald The Nerd or Ally The Alligator. Given how they were operating, had there been a 7800 Punch-Out, they probably just would have had a generic referee.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Shaggy the Atarian

[8th lutz]

3C) I always thought Atari Games had the rights to 2600, 5200, etc but you are telling me Atari Corps did, interesting. Atari Corp paid GCC rights so the 7800 can become an Atari product like what Midway or Namco did with GCC after seeing their now called Ms Pac Man game? Did GCC make the Lynx in 1987? Any problems because the 7800 had 2600 parts in it? If Atari Corp owned the 2600,5200 and games rights, what did Atari Games have ha? Ironic. The then sister company with same name had to make a moniker to make games for it's sister company that had the Atari consoles. Mindblowing. I read Time Warner owns most of Atari's rights, but you are telling me Infogrames does. Interesting. Unless Time Warner just owns the Atari Games rights. Which I have no idea what products they even have. I'm sorry if I'm having trouble learning all this, but it is a long crazy tree of over 30 years.

 

4C) Follow up to that, so Atari Inc, a sub of The Warner Company, split in 1984 into Atari Corp and Atari Games. Ok then Atari Corp was sold by Warner to Trammel that then merged with JTS? Then sold to Hasbro and then finally sold to Infogrames? This includes the rights to 2600,5200 and 7800 and more but the patents are over now right? Anyway Atari Corp/Infogrames is what is it now basically. Atari Games, the other Atari were bought by Namco? Then Midway? Then sold back to Warner Bros? Then went under the moniker name Tengen? Then sold back to Time Warner for 3rd time currently? If so, where did Atari US well once Atari France come from then? Or was Atari US a sub of Atari France/Infogrames from 2001? I thought that was the actual Atari in modern times even the original Atari Vice President went on board to Atari France/US right? If not, Atari Games/Time Warner is what it is now basically.

 

3c.) It is similar to what Midway/Namco did with GCC, but a major difference. Warner actually had GCC create the Atari 7800. The catch is Warner never paid GCC for the Atari 7800 despite it being test marketed before Tramiel bought the the Atari Consumer division aka the Computer and Atari 2600/Atari 5200. I never could out Warner not paying GCC developing Atari 7800 games and the game console despite being test marketed.

 

GCC didn't make the Lynx, but Epyx did. Epyx didn't couldn't continue developing the Lynx on their own due to financial difficulties. The Financial issues was caused by the Data East Lawsuit that involved Karate Champ and International Karate. At the time, Epyx and Atari Corp already had an existing business relationship for developing games.

 

99 percent of Atari 2600 games work on the Atari 7800. The issues of the percent was the shape of the cartridge in terms of fitting in the cartridge slot. The issues of the cartridge slot was caused by some 3rd party Atari 2600 games.

 

Atari Games got from the split was most of the same employees and managers that had worked at the old Atari Inc. It was able to carry on with many of its projects from before the transition. It isn't quite true that Atari games used a moniker for developing games for Atari Corp. Atari Games started that moniker of Tengen before they had a relationship with Atari Corp. Atari games used Tengen for starting to do games for the Nes, not for the Atari 7800. Atari Games Corp and and Atari Corp didn't have a business relationship after the split before the later games of the 7800. That meant Atari 7800 didn't get Marble Madness, Super sprint, Paperboy, Gauntlet, 720 degrees, Cyberball, or Toobin' on the Atari 7800 released or were never planed. There were only rumors on Gauntlet, and Paperboy for the Atari 7800, but it was in the 1989 or 1990 time period.

 

Tengen did do Lynx games, but not the Atari 7800 games that prototypes were found or rumored Atari games Corp arcade ports. Klax, Pit Fighter, Rampart, Road Riot WD, and Steel talons.

 

Warner owns Atari games. As far as the arcade games before the split, that is something I can't answer. The arcade games before the split isn't known to me because I own arcade compilations for different systems. During the Playstation era games like Millipede were compilations from Midway, but that wasn't the case during the Playstation 2 era.

 

4.) You got the companies right through infogrames. The patents aren't over for the Atari 2600, 5200, and atari 7800 games yet. I also think infogrames also owns the rights to arcade before the split that caused to different Atari companies to this day. based on whenever a homebrew company does a port of an existing pre - 1984 arcade game like pong, the homebrew author has to pay infogrames. Atari games got back to Warner. To my knowledge, Tengen hasn't been used as a moniker since 1994. I don't know if Warner has Tengen stuff for the Nes, Lynx, Genesis, Game Gear, Sega CD, Tg-16 and Sega Master System.

 

Atari US is a sub of Atari France/Infogrames from 2001.

Edited February 10, 2015 by 8th lutz

[ataritiger]

Thank you so much 8th lutz for helping me with Atari History. I will keep re reading your great answers to get most of the tree memorized, again apologies, I guess I'm trying to learn 30 years worth in just 3 days.

Shaggy thank you for mascot answer.

Tep that will be awesome if we get Donkey Kong XM rom for Concerto/Harmony 2/7800 Deluxe Edition. Also I didn't know the full source code was required just to add music, just <start of level to end of level length> code via patch.

Trebor, what you are saying to me indeed conforms my fears. That the audio and video is like a "system on a chip 2600/TIA chip" inside the 7800. Sort of like the hardware emulation of system on a chip stuff like AT Game Genesis, which is wretched especially for audio. Forgive my ignorance if I'm wrong. I read your post but why does 7800 have 6502C if 2600 had a 6502A and also a separate audio chip and many other chips? Why is the 2600 part ofthe 7800 motherboard just 1 chip like a "system on a chip". Also I heard there were 2 versions of Maria 7800 chip. And was 2600 graphic chip called Stella? Again, I'm just trying to learn.

Thank you for answer accousticgiutar, that was what I indeed feared as I wanted to change this thread title from (Hopefully an admin or mod still can?)
"Atarians : 5 Q's from TigerV2600 to 7800XM to Concerto Cart & more..."

Into

"Q&A : TigerV26, XM, Harmony2, 7800 Revisions, Atari History & more"

Thank you to everybody so far. I hope one day to pour some moonshine and get all these questions answered, and hopefully not just for me but to others too and this could be a reference instead of constant re typing in other threads.

Edited February 10, 2015 by ataritiger

[Trebor]

Trebor, what you are saying to me indeed conforms my fears. That the audio and video is like a "system on a chip 2600/TIA chip" inside the 7800. Sort of like the hardware emulation of system on a chip stuff like AT Game Genesis, which is wretched especially for audio. Forgive my ignorance if I'm wrong. I read your post but why does 7800 have 6502C if 2600 had a 6502A and also a separate audio chip and many other chips? Why is the 2600 part ofthe 7800 motherboard just 1 chip like a "system on a chip". Also I heard there were 2 versions of Maria 7800 chip. And was 2600 graphic chip called Stella? Again, I'm just trying to learn.

 

The Atari 2600 had over a dozen and a half motherboard versions. In each of the 16+ versions out there, they contain one TIA chip that handles both video and audio. They all contain one RIOT chip. The differences among 6502C/6502A/6507 are inconsequential to faithfully running the game code properly on the respective console. The differences among 2600's include cosmetic ones, physical relocation of components and the addition or missing of a few resistors and diodes. A change that adds an actual chip to the 2600 is from revision 16 and newer that places a timer to address reset and power failures of the system.

A small (handful or so) number of 2600 games being incompatible with running on a 7800 is likely due to a timing circuit and/or physical cartridge fit for certain models. For all intent and purposes the 7800 contains a complete 2600 inside and is unlike the AT Games Genesis (Or any of the "Flashback" units. The exception is the Flashback 2, which comes the closest in replicating the 2600 hardware for our modern day on a mass production level).

Stella = Codename for the Atari VCS/2600.

TIA = Name of the audio and video chip of the Atari VCS/2600.

Maria = Codename for the Atari 7800 console and name for the video chip of the Atari 7800.

The Maria [1] 1701 chip was never officially released. The Maria [2] 1702 (which saw revision(s) prior to release - Exact name "GCC1702B") is the one used in NTSC systems. The Maria 1712 is used in PAL systems. There was supposed to be a 1722 for both regions which was never officially produced. Of course protos are always out there as well.

[nosweargamer]

I can give you a little light on the TIgervision questions, as I will be reviewing the 2 games on The No Swear Gamer on Youtube that Ferg will be covering on his Atari 2600 GBG podcast real soon: Threshold & River Patrol.

 

Threshold is pretty solid and played great in my 7800.

River Patrol is interesting, because of the way the cart was made (which is different from Threshold). It WILL NOT fit in the 7800. It has some large tabs inside the prevent this, but it fits fine in a 2600. I found it pretty fun, and it might play in a 7800 if you broke off the tabs, but I wouldn't recommend it due to its extreme value.

 

I have not yet played any of the other Tigervision game and don't know if they fit in the 7800, but if you go by scores AtariAge keeps track of, Jawbreaker would be the highest rated.

[ataritiger]

I didn't win the powerball and I'm out of moonshine. Damn. So Trebor may I ask, did the 7800 start the 80s 8 bit mark of separate video chip (Maria) and audio chip (2600 TIA)? Because the 2600 had it all in 1, but 7800, SMS, NES, etc had separate chips for audio and video. Is the true the 7800 is the first backwards compatible system?

[Trebor]

So Trebor may I ask, did the 7800 start the 80s 8 bit mark of separate video chip (Maria) and audio chip (2600 TIA)? Because the 2600 had it all in 1, but 7800, SMS, NES, etc had separate chips for audio and video. Is the true the 7800 is the first backwards compatible system?

Atari 5200 - 1982

ColecoVision - 1982

Vectrex - 1982

Famicom/NES - 1983

All the above predate the Atari 7800 and had separate chips for audio and video processing.

The Atari 7800 is the first console to have built-in backwards compatibility. The Atari 5200 enabled playing Atari 2600 titles via a 'VCS Cartridge Adapter'. As a side-note, there was cross-platform gaming available with the ColecoVision, utilizing the 'Expansion Module #1' to play Atari 2600 games. The 'System Changer' (1983) adapter, designed ideally for an Intellivision II, allowed playing Atari 2600 games for those under the Intellivision platform.

[ataritiger]

I see, couldn't be argued the Famicom and 7800 were still being made in early 1983? But both your 2 examples from 1982 shed light on me like a full moon at night.