chinnyhill10 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Dear Sir, I have to strongly disagree with you on this topic ! Imho it's as chinnyhill10 stated "These were budget games being developed on multiple platforms at the same time under commercial time pressures. In that environment you go for the easiest option.". proving that C64 can do better than HoH is still on my to-do list, so we'll talk more when that's done If you take on HoH, take a look at the CPC version. This was the one Jon Ritman coded himself straight after doing the Spectrum original and he made a couple of changes. Now some of the other planets have their own unique doorways. Unfortunately this change didn't make it to many of the other versions as they were all ported from the line by line recode from the Z80. This even includes the 16 bit versions as the person doing those versions understood 6502 but not Z80. So the 16 bits are a port of a port! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmilo Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 If you take on HoH, take a look at the CPC version. Yeah, that does look like a best version among 8-bits. If nothing else it shows how cpu speed wasn't 'all there is to it'. Same resolution with 4 colors means double the amount of bytes code needs to throw on screen. Still it is very similar in speed compared to Spectrum version. My guess is that proper masking and sorting things before drawing is what is important. No reason why new code on 6502 in A8 or C64 shouldn't do that in 4 or 9 or 16 colors 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinnyhill10 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I decided to make Chimera + the subject of the latest episode of ChinnyVision. Reviewed using a real Atari 65XE and also comparisons with the existing versions (again all from original hardware): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyO2YO655i8 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 I decided to make Chimera + the subject of the latest episode of ChinnyVision. Reviewed using a real Atari 65XE and also comparisons with the existing versions (again all from original hardware): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyO2YO655i8 That's brilliant, thanks for including the game in your latest episode. I check out your channel regularly, your episodes are very well put together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 Dear Sir, I have to strongly disagree with you on this topic ! Imho it's as chinnyhill10 stated "These were budget games being developed on multiple platforms at the same time under commercial time pressures. In that environment you go for the easiest option.". proving that C64 can do better than HoH is still on my to-do list, so we'll talk more when that's done Hi Vladimir, maybe if written from scratch making use of the multiple hardware sprites rather than an entirely software rendered bitmap display. I'm interested in line-by-line translation, I've been thinking about it this week. It's not something I've considered undertaking before. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinnyhill10 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 That's brilliant, thanks for including the game in your latest episode. I check out your channel regularly, your episodes are very well put together. No problem. It's a really polished remake. Always good to look at something that's been done well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Bump but TMR's comment about it'd be interesting to speak to 1 of The Darling's (Codemasters) to see why they stopped A8 support, jogged my memory...Anyone recal atari user's Software Shake-Up news story in early '87? Pat Bitten (Mirrorsoft) quoted as saying her company was talking to Atari about producing more A8 games, situation being under consideration... David Darling is also quoted saying conversions for the A8 had sold well and he felt there was a good market in Brtain for 8 Bit Games and this could lead onto the world market.... A Mastertronic spokesman claimed to have said the A8 games it'd published had done very well, they felt happy to continuing to support the A8, espically with the arrival of the 65XE.... Be nice to get some proper background behind these quotes, if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinnyhill10 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Bump but TMR's comment about it'd be interesting to speak to 1 of The Darling's (Codemasters) to see why they stopped A8 support, jogged my memory...Anyone recal atari user's Software Shake-Up news story in early '87? Pat Bitten (Mirrorsoft) quoted as saying her company was talking to Atari about producing more A8 games, situation being under consideration... David Darling is also quoted saying conversions for the A8 had sold well and he felt there was a good market in Brtain for 8 Bit Games and this could lead onto the world market.... A Mastertronic spokesman claimed to have said the A8 games it'd published had done very well, they felt happy to continuing to support the A8, espically with the arrival of the 65XE.... Be nice to get some proper background behind these quotes, if possible. What companies say and what they actually do is another thing. If you look at various examples of machine launches at that time companies would often say they were going to support a machine when they had no intention. PR departments don't want bad news getting out From Mastertronic figures, they put out 18 A8 games in 1987 but only 3 in 1988. That would suggest that the market had nosedived. The C16 and BBC Micro had similar drops in releases. What you tend to find is from 1988 onwards, the big 3 (C64, CPC and Spectrum) have their budget markets dominated by the likes of Ocean via their Hit Squad re-releases or US Gold with their Kixx label. The likes of Codemasters were starting to look at the ST and Amiga and weren't really interested in going backwards to the likes of the A8. The budget market also became very fragmented. If you look at the Mastertronic sales figures they peak in 1987 and fall away very quickly. The reason is that so many other players entered the market. Codemasters, Alternative, Hit Squad, Kixx, Players, Zeppelin, Hi-Tec, etc.. With overall sales per unit reduced by a saturated budget market, supporting a minority platform become impossible. Edited March 22, 2015 by chinnyhill10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FifthPlayer Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) What companies say and what they actually do is another thing. If you look at various examples of machine launches at that time companies would often say they were going to support a machine when they had no intention. PR departments don't want bad news getting out You don't need to go back to the 80s to find examples of this - this phenomenon continues today. At the launch of the Wii U, Electronic Arts pledged to support the system with absolutely no intention of doing so. I'm really surprised by this discussion. Yes, the A8 received no ports, or as in the case of Chimera, seriously gimped ports of many games. But the vast majority of those games were budget titles that weren't that good to begin with. This is certainly true of Chimera, as ChinnyHill acknowledges in his excellent video review - the original game was just not playable to many gamers of the era, even on the systems where it was done well. I don't consider the A8 poorer for the absence of these games. Edited March 22, 2015 by FifthPlayer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 With the whole TxK inspired by debate raging elsewhere, it seemed ideal time to comment on Edge's The Making Of...Head Over Heels in here: opening of said article: 'Head Over Heels was blatantly modelled on Knight Lore and borrowed 80% of it's code from another title'.... Article talks about further inspiration coming from Jon Ritman watching a programme about animals which could combine in nature and Bernie Drummond recalling a Marvel Comics version of Planet Of The Apes, from the 1970's, in which a Gorilla and a Human teamed-up... The Gorillia's arms were broken and the Humans legs were broken, so the Gorillia gave the Human a piggy back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+therealbountybob Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Great, glad to hear you are continuing to progress in the game I'll have to get my XE hooked up to play through the game and check this out. There was a pre-existing issue with the status messages that caused problems overwriting ram which I addressed so I'll look into that incase I've overlooked something. That's great, I'll look forward to reading your review I considered the speed of the decrease of food and water and decided to roughly match the original game making it less of an issue due to the faster pace so that the game is more enjoyable to play through. I think the lockup I had was my PSU which expired a while later. Noticed that sometimes the pause mode has no text or moving bars - music plays and resumes ok. Would be good if reset rebooted if you do update this again. My Chimera+ review is in the latest Pro© Magazine Issue #7 available at all good bookstores, well Powersoft's Atari web site at least Inspired by reading this to have another session: 2,035 I must be right at the end now; I have nothing left to collect and figure Toaster #4 behind the blocks is what I need to get Warhead #4... so just a very small hint please someone - don't spoil it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 ...Would be good if reset rebooted if you do update this again. It should be a simple matter to add a small binary segment to the disk file that stores a non zero number in location $244. Something like this: FF FF 44 02 44 02 FF. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Something like this: COLDSTA.XEX Just combine/link/copy+append it with the Chimera+ file... like that: chimerap.xex and if you want to load it from DOS, try the CC3 version: chimera3.xex There is a Gr. 2 title screen in the unpacked and in the CC3 packed version of Chimera+. Currently it displays "Loading", use a disk/sector-editor and change the text to "Chimera+" or whatever you like... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahid Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 What an amazing thread! It's been a while, but I'd like to thank Tezz again for doing Chimera justice and making it way better than I did. Amazing skill. And a lovely person too. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Thanks for coding the original, I hope it made you rich beyond your wildest dreams.... What are you working on these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahid Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Haha, thanks, sadly it didn't, but it's probably just as well or I would have been a truly obnoxious rich kid! I left PlayStation last year to go back to my developer roots, and I'm working on a new VR project, which I'll share with you as soon as I can! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) Haha, thanks, sadly it didn't, but it's probably just as well or I would have been a truly obnoxious rich kid! I left PlayStation last year to go back to my developer roots, and I'm working on a new VR project, which I'll share with you as soon as I can! I saw on something you were a keynote speaker at some computer event, so still in the limelight I probably should not ask but why the jump from Playstation, thought it would have been a safe bet or were you just keen to be in charge of yourself. Not had my hands on any of the VR things, might look for a cheap PS4 one after Xmas for my daughter, I hope the experience is worth it Good luck with the VR thing, look forward to seeing it, its not Chimera VR is it Seriously, hope its great and sells bucket loads.. Paul. Edited December 7, 2016 by Mclaneinc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+JAC! Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 What an amazing thread! It's been a while, but I'd like to thank Tezz again for doing Chimera justice and making it way better than I did. Amazing skill. And a lovely person too. It wouldn't be there without the original, so great to see you're around and thanks for cool childhood memories! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahid Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 I saw on something you were a keynote speaker at some computer event, so still in the limelight I probably should not ask but why the jump from Playstation, thought it would have been a safe bet or were you just keen to be in charge of yourself. Not had my hands on any of the VR things, might look for a cheap PS4 one after Xmas for my daughter, I hope the experience is worth it Good luck with the VR thing, look forward to seeing it, its not Chimera VR is it Seriously, hope its great and sells bucket loads.. Paul. The reasons for leaving were widely reported and accurate, but to sum up, I'd achieved more than I ever hoped to achieve at PlayStation, so I wanted to leave while on a high and I wanted to make games again and at my age, I didn't know if I'd ever get the chance again. I didn't want to have any regrets and not trying gamedev again would have been something I would have had terrible regret about. I'm very happy to answer any questions about the original Chimera here. There will be another version of Chimera at some point, but not for Atari, as Tezz has already done the definitive version 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 There will be another version of Chimera at some point, but not for Atari, as Tezz has already done the definitive version *Very cheeky smile* (and really pushing our luck here), any chance of a brand new game for the Atari? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahid Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 *Very cheeky smile* (and really pushing our luck here), any chance of a brand new game for the Atari? Haha, I'd love to turn back time, but sadly, that's unlikely to happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 (edited) I really love what you did updating this game... but I have a question.... I put the xex in an ultimate sd cart and went in to play... just to take a break I wanted play the mini-game where you scoop up the fish with a kettle..... so I paused and pressed start select option, and the rainbows stopped, it started playing bach and screen went blue.....and it hung music kept playing but all else was locked up.... Is this a know issue or is it a side effect of xex on ult sd cart xex loader? Edited December 17, 2016 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 (edited) From looking at the first post the sub game was removed...I've not read the whole thread to see if other versions were released ongoing in the thread but the kettle game according to the main post is removed. Just reread the whole thread (boy was emkay heated ) and there's no other versions, there's a bit of over written code and it had to go.. Edited December 17, 2016 by Mclaneinc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 (edited) I better go back to the start of the thread.... what is wrong with me these days .... it's the third time I miss or forget something before the end of a thread.... but no I am even more confused... Tezz, may I persuade you to make the kettle of fish game a chain loaded event or a way out where it warns you that once you play kettle it will reboot the game to exit... it would also make it so one may leave the game without pressing reset or power cycling, just have it peform a cold start at exit... A whole nother kettle of fish so to speak! Edited December 17, 2016 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted December 17, 2016 Author Share Posted December 17, 2016 I've been away from AA since May with RL stuff, sorry about that, looks like I left a temporary infinate loop in place there after removing the broken Kettle of Fish game. I'll fix that now and re-upload. I just noticed today that a longplay video was recently uploaded for anyone who wants to see the game played through to completion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJy4UN0BMt0 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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