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JagChris

Volker Barthelmann's/Frank Wille's VASM assembler for the JRISC

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 I remember a few people asking for gasm compatibility. Now they have gasm and/or devpak compatibility if they want it.

 

Some people always find something to ask for so they have an excuse to not actually do anything....

 

If only there was an assembler...

If only there was a working environment...

If only there were libraries...

If only there were sound engines...

If only there was a C Compiler...

If only there was a BASIC compiler....

 

Usually the same people... If only they'd fucking start doing/finish (delete as appropriate) something instead of if only-ing.....

Edited by CyranoJ

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Perhaps in the future vasm builds will be able to assemble both m68k and gpu code in one pass on one file. Maybe not. 

 

I'm not sure how often that is actually needed but if it causes insurmountable problems then we'll see what happens then. 

 

For now VASM is an option and if someone new comes into the community use to these syntaxes and just wants to use the old sources for references and it helps out just one person well then that's cool. 

 

Good will to all. 

Edited by JagChris

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 you'll just have to live with it because I just don't care. 

 

You do care, that's obvious, or you wouldn't spend all your time posting about development as a non-developer. Your enthusiasm has you quadruple-posting and more in 1-man threads all around the interwebs, I'm just not sure how many times one person can keep banging the drum to the tune of "I have no idea what I'm doing, but I'm sure gonna keep on doing it, because one day it'll all make sense... boom boom boom... what me boom watch me boom...".

 

If you could redirect that enthusiasm into something actually productive, that might go a long way to resolving your problems. Also stay consistent. You obviously support the nature of the Jaguar userbase being fractured and disparate, pocketed into mini-cliques. Don't say one thing in one place and something incompatible elsewhere.

 

It's your choice. It's funny when a 3 year old kid runs around with his underwear on his head. When a grown man does that, then says you guise are stupid for not getting in to this new hat craze, not so much. It's just that when he then goes on to serial-post about how he put both arms into his underpants one day but found that his arse got cold so sat on a radiator, but burned his arse and didn't like the results of that so got on a plane to lapland in order to sit on some snow for a while, but then noticed that his bollocks were so horrified that they retreated up inside him and got shit out one particularly chilly morning, which required an operation and daily injections to keep him feeling like a real man who wears underpants on his head.... if only he'd just sat down and read the manual that came with the underpants and understood the basic concepts of underpant wearing before subjecting the world and himself to so much WTF...

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It's your choice. It's funny when a 3 year old kid runs around with his underwear on his head. When a grown man does that, then says you guise are stupid for not getting in to this new hat craze, not so much. It's just that when he then goes on to serial-post about how he put both arms into his underpants one day but found that his arse got cold so sat on a radiator, but burned his arse and didn't like the results of that so got on a plane to lapland in order to sit on some snow for a while, but then noticed that his bollocks were so horrified that they retreated up inside him and got shit out one particularly chilly morning, which required an operation and daily injections to keep him feeling like a real man who wears underpants on his head.... if only he'd just sat down and read the manual that came with the underpants and understood the basic concepts of underpant wearing before subjecting the world and himself to so much WTF...

 

I have not LOL'd for real reading AA in ages. Well done. I want a manual for underpants now.

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oh a new topic.. oh wait .. just insulting orgy :-D

 

jagchris.. you will never new see any new software without a good programmer with strong skills in lowlevel asm (risc and 68k) and strong math knowledge

(atariowl and drTypo are examples that goes that way)

whatever programmers use, they need that skills

even affine 3d (like atarikarts, wolfenstein) is not possible with current dev libs.. you need asm from scratch, your math and time :idea:

 

retro or 8bit-2d games are nicely possible with raptor for example as you can see derLuchs is making something nice with raptor(asm)

 

sadly i have no time for coding.. maybe next year.. when i got leadership of my it-department :grin:

 

greets to all

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oh a new topic.. oh wait .. just insulting orgy :-D

 

greets to all

 

 

Yes it's the Reboot way! They are so awesome! 

 

But anyone with any sense has already figured that out by now. 

Edited by JagChris

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Yes it's the Reboot way! They are so awesome! 
 
But anyone with any sense has already figured that out by now.


You can open as many debug windows as you like, buy a third screen and throw a few more up there and add in a few more tools to your chain of ossum. Pretend to be a dev and run all the experiments you like. Dismiss criticism of your misplaced enthusiams as 'these spindoctor guise'. Keep right on doing that.

But you'll never be what you pretend to be. Ever. You'll just keep on hassling the people who can and the people who do and waste their time again and again and again. And one day you might even see the words Hello World on some screen somewhere... but you won't know how or why because you can't see the wood for the underpants.

 

 

jagchris.. you will never new see any new software without a good programmer

 
Kind of true. You could certainly say you'll never produce any software until you're a programmer.
 

... with strong skills in lowlevel asm (risc and 68k) and strong math knowledge

(atariowl and drTypo are examples that goes that way)

whatever programmers use, they need that skills

 

Bullshit. Tech doesn't make games, people do. What that has to do with this thread of JagChris' developer fantasies is anyone's guess...

Edited by sh3-rg

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oh a new topic.. oh wait .. just insulting orgy :-D

 

jagchris.. you will never new see any new software without a good programmer with strong skills in lowlevel asm (risc and 68k) and strong math knowledge

(atariowl and drTypo are examples that goes that way)

whatever programmers use, they need that skills

even affine 3d (like atarikarts, wolfenstein) is not possible with current dev libs.. you need asm from scratch, your math and time :idea:

 

retro or 8bit-2d games are nicely possible with raptor for example as you can see derLuchs is making something nice with raptor(asm)

 

sadly i have no time for coding.. maybe next year.. when i got leadership of my it-department :grin:

 

greets to all

 

Hi,

 

Your ossom post can only be answered with

 

50225124.jpg

 

Best regards,

Non strong programmers (we don't hit the gym that often, that's true)

Edited by ggn

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Yes it's the Reboot way! They are so awesome! 

 

But anyone with any sense has already figured that out by now. 

 

 

The 'Reboot way' is to release games, tools, source code, libraries and programming languages.. to help people get started, the show people how easy it can all be.

 

Your way seems to be to hide in backwater forums making potshot snide comments at everyone else while producing fuck all and going round in circles going 'oooeeeooooeeeooooeee I'm a dev, look, VJ + STE code! whoohooo!'

 

Go back in time 10 years, you'll be happier there ;) 

 

I know which way I prefer.

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Bullshit. Tech doesn't make games, people do. What that has to do with this thread of JagChris' developer fantasies is anyone's guess...

 

hahahaha..

i want to see that game, that is made without that misterious tech "knowledge" and "math"

maybe i there is a new way i never heard from to paint a jaguar game on a papersheet with brush :D :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :-o

 

my post of "requirements/skills" refers not to 8bit style or retro 2d games like you guys do, maybe you missunderstod or its my fault cause of bad english

 

okay, but seriously i understand that you guys are irritated of this thread and never had any intention to respond some serious answers

 

and hey: why sourcecode in the "atari jaguar programming" forum when you can have spiderman pics :P :P

Edited by Otto1980

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hahahaha..

i want to see that game, that is made without that misterious tech "knowledge" and "math"

maybe i there is a new way i never heard from to paint a jaguar game on a papersheet with brush :D :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :-o

 

okay, but seriously i understand that you guys are irritated of this thread and never had any intention to respond some serious answers

 

hey why sourcecode in the "atari jaguar programming" forum when you can have spiderman pics :P :P

 

 

Maybe you could make it? You seem clueless enough? Back to TumbleWeed3 with you, where nobody will ever complete anything and you can all pretend you are 'guarding the truth' - whatever the fuck you all think that is. 

Edited by CyranoJ

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hahahaha..
i want to see that game, that is made without that misterious tech "knowledge" and "math"
maybe i there is a new way i never heard from to paint a jaguar game on a papersheet with brush :D :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :-o
 
okay, but seriously i understand that you guys are irritated of this thread and never had any intention to respond some serious answers
 
hey why sourcecode in the "atari jaguar programming" forum when you can have spiderman pics :P :P

 
Don't be ridiculous. The point was made that creating an engine does not necessarily result in a game following that is at all fun or equal to the technology presenting it. This is why there are software engineers and game designers. It is common sense. How many games have you designed? And yes, games are designed on paper, and by discussion and experimentation and all other kinds of methods, as well as creating the tech then bolting on a game afterwards... but creating "ossum tech" does not automatically result in "ossum game" without someone there who knows game design.
 
A good designer can present a perfectly entertaining and enjoyable game with very little tech behind it. Stating that "you will never new see any new software without a good programmer with strong skills in lowlevel asm (risc and 68k) and strong math knowledge" is complete and utter bullshit, nothing short of that.
 
This has literally nothing to do with this thread and isn't even appropriate in this section of the forum.
 
If you wish to discuss the topic of games produced by designers vs games produced by tech-heads, go make the thread in the general forum and we'll discuss is sensibly without all the smileys and snide remarks. Edited by sh3-rg

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lol 2 answers while i reviewed and corrected my own post !!

 

yes you migth be right.. but how many designers and creative guys are out ther in the wide world? maybe mulitmega1000s to the power of 333

 

and how many jaguar programmers that know the hardware in lowleveldetail and can code it to have a result that comes close to early 32 bit ish 3d or something like this and also have time????

 

i count none.. cause i dont know one :skull: :skull:

Edited by Otto1980

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A good designer can present a perfectly entertaining and enjoyable game with very little tech behind it. Stating that "you will never new see any new software without a good programmer with strong skills in lowlevel asm (risc and 68k) and strong math knowledge" is complete and utter bullshit, nothing short of that.

 

once again: i dont meant 8bit or retro 2d games

sorry again for writing that relation not clearly enough

 

"If you wish to discuss the topic of games produced by designers vs games produced" ???

no thanks.. but looks you searching it .. out of my words you maybe hope

Edited by Otto1980

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once again: i dont meant 8bit or retro 2d games
sorry again for writing that relation not clearly enough
 
"If you wish to discuss the topic of games produced by designers vs games produced" ???
no thanks.. but looks you searching it .. out of my words you maybe hope


It's hard to tell what you're trying to say, Otto :0) It seems you came in to a thread about an upcoming tool that descended into a discussion on JagChris' bizarre dev fantasies to say that you think AtariOwl and DrTypo are good at maths?

No doubt, they are both good with numbers.

I'll paint a picture to that effect if you wish ;0)

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AtariOwl and DrTypo are good at maths? No doubt, they are both good with numbers.

 

i dont know what they are.. but without math and skills i talked about their demo/engine/game or what ever wont look/work that nice

 

please .. i try to say something and you blame for saying what you think i wanted to say :-D

okay peace and love to us all .. also to you my lovely jagchris separatist

Edited by Otto1980

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i dont know what they are.. but without math and skills i talked about their demo/engine/game or what ever wont look/work that nice


Well it's an interesting topic of conversation for sure, just probably not what was expected in this thread. But a polite point to make to JagChris nonetheless; that there are certain levels of understanding and experience that are prerequisite to certain levels of entry into development and, similarly, discussion of the tools and methods involved. He doesn't seem to get that part, no matter how many debug windows he opens and how many test rigs he macgyvers together. But that's his call... it's his free time and he can choose to spend it however he likes... he just doesn't have to subject others to it and make claims that he cannot possibly do so with any kind of credibility or authority. Even his speech looks coached and relayed.

And then he resorts to name-calling/you guise/you suck when people have again had enough and become tired of reading the same old guff as he stumbles through a self-made minefield of misunderstandings and assumptions he cannot possibly back up with and real knowledge. Trying to make all the right noises but ending up with silky smalls as headgear. It fucks people off.

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To be honest I don't give damn about which assembler / linker I use as long as it does what it says on the tin. smac and rmac stuff both should be compatible with each other and should produce the same code for the same input ( ignoring that each program may command line options to achieve the same ) .

 

In the good old days I used devpac on the Atari machines and that produced consistent code . Dinodudes and Bubsy were written using that system  purely because we did not have a PC each and the environment was better . Ok we had to use the command line debugger which was the biggest pain in the ass. Then we got our own PC's so we all used Brief text editor and Brainstorm produced the visual debugger which made debugging the Jaguar user friendly (I-War)

 

As game developers I don't want to write assemblers , debuggers or even text editors - we have a product to create. Its like today , I am use Visual Studio on a windows 7 PC whilst other might be using a Mac or Linux setup - all we care about is the final binary image and seeing it run on the target hardware.

 

At times you have to write tools which is fair enough - eg Image Convertors ,Map editors and 3D model convertors .

 

If you want to get on high horses and say mine is better than yours then do so , but ensure that what you are shouting about is bug free and works 100% perfectly else you make yourself look like a fool.

 

Both Smac and Rmac have bugs which surprises me as they are based off 20 year old code which should be solid.

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That's probably because you're an actual programmer who writes actual software, not someone living out a weird developer fantasy with zero knowledge and 40 IDE / debug windows open, while there's no source code...   :D

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Both Smac and Rmac have bugs which surprises me as they are based off 20 year old code which should be solid.


I'm no programmer, but when I started working on Jaguar games and hanging around these forums, all I would hear the kids saying was how hard it all was, how the Atari tools were all broken and how everyone else should stay the heck away for fear of dragons and ogres. There was some degree of smoke and mirrors.

JagChris has spent something like the past 2 years attempting to be able to step through a Hello World program. That's about the size of it. Then he sees fit to tell people who have been working on tools others of us use (for fun, in our own time, just befuckingcause) that lol, you're wasting your time, I got some clever chap to port something better and your efforts will all be obsolete, trololol. Then has a meltdown when people tell his to mind his own business and stick to things that are within his comprehension... such as shitting in the toilet and eating the cereal from the bowl provided by the care assistants, not the other way around.

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Both Smac and Rmac have bugs which surprises me as they are based off 20 year old code which should be solid.


It's only fairly recently that we've been getting decent bug reports for RMAC, and without those it will never be solid. That said, the code we inherited was fairly old stuff that came from Landon Dyer's personal stash of source code; I'm thinking that the tools that you had were from Brainstorm who had taken the time to make the assembler & linker rock solid. It's a shame those sources never turned up, it would have saved us all a lot of trouble. :)

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A new build of VASM for the Jrisc is here. It's farther along now but still in it's infancy. I will be able to test it this weekend. It will be up and available for download by tonight or tomorrow.

Ok... I did it. The last days I implemented a whole new syntax module
for MadMac compatibility.

The new source snapshot will be available in 11 hours.

Build the new vasm for Jaguar with MadMac syntax like this:
make CPU=jagrisc SYNTAX=madmac

Please report any problems which are left.

What I didn't find out:

1. When you have a .text section and switch into absolute mode with .org,
how do you return to .text in MadMac? With another .text directive?

2. What does .gpumain do? I left it out.

Regards,

--
Frank Wille


http://sun.hasenbraten.de/vasm/index.php?view=relsrc

I already talked to him about the .gpu main directive. The other one I couldn't help with.

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