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Willard

Several New Versions of AVP For Lynx Discovered

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As has been mentioned in the past, we have another release planned for the Lynx. It is a bunch of new AVP protos for the Lynx.

 

Previously we hinted that it was not as interesting as our other discoveries because it was one that has already been found, ours is just different or further along (depending on the version).

 

The most interesting things people may find about our versions are (1) the shaded ceiling and floor on some versions (2) The alien enemies (3) That enemies attack in one of our versions (4) the latest version is actually further along than the B&C version with some additional polish to the levels. (5) Our story frames are different and one of our versions doesn't have any corruption on the fourth frame. The latest version we have is dated 03.07.1995.

 

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I think something else people may have not seen yet that I think is really interesting is that someone has discovered that the alien mode has actually been in all the known protos all along! We may look into whether the ROMs can be hacked to incorporate some of these elements. Here's the link to his site, the news is dated September 2014 so it's a rather new discovery as far as I know, that hasn't been widely shared with the Atari community. It was kind of incidental that I found his site! Note that his site is littered with inaccuracies in regard to the actual history / details of the game though :P

 

They probably took the alien mode out for good reason (because the game has you moving down narrow corridors so there's no way to implement any strategy into an alien mode) but cool for people who were thinking that maybe this material would never come about.

 

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Edited by Willard
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Outstanding news.

 

Of all the unreleased/incomplete Lynx Games, well today at least this is on my no.1 wish list, of 'Should have been finished and released at the time'.

 

Fantastic work here.

 

Can see the 'reasoning' why the Alien campain might have been viewed as 'not working out', i'm of the feeling that technology was'nt really there to make the concept as playing as the Alien really workable (ie more than a novelty) until Rebellions PC AVP.

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As has been mentioned in the past, we have another release planned for the Lynx. It is a bunch of new AVP protos for the Lynx.

That's great news! Very much looking forward to this! :)

 

Funny thing is, just yesterday i was looking all over the interwebs for sales of AvP protos for the Lynx as i haven't got any yet. Now i read this. ^^

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If you have several protos, maybe you could talk to some coder to hack and put all the parts that are the furthes along into a single ROM. Like putting the different colored ceilings, Alien enemies, attacking enemies and uncorrupted cutscenes in a single ROM. :)

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Of all the unreleased/incomplete Lynx Games, well today at least this is on my no.1 wish list, of 'Should have been finished and released at the time'.

 

Way back when I first started looking into the LYNX and learned of release groups like B&C and Songbird, AVP was one of the games that really caught my attention. I agree that it would've been really cool to have seen it completed - and I think Atari felt the same way judging by the date on the last ROM we found. It's too bad that it wasn't to be as I think the last batch of games in development (particularly AVP / Hotdog / Road Riot) were very impressive and could've sold some Lynx's.

 

I'm not too familiar with the later part of the Lynx's history. Games were still being released in '93. EOTB was cancelled in '93 despite being finished and Atari shelved their Super Asteroids / Missile command until '95. Hotdog was in development from '93-'95 so it seems that Atari must've had some plan to revive the Lynx if they were still encouraging that game to be developed. I'd be interested to hear what kind of strategy involved killing the system for a year to bring it back later on.

 

If you have several protos, maybe you could talk to some coder to hack and put all the parts that are the furthes along into a single ROM. Like putting the different colored ceilings, Alien enemies, attacking enemies and uncorrupted cutscenes in a single ROM. :)

 

We have 3 different protos. I think it'd be really cool to splice the first rom with the last rom we have, but I imagine it'd be a lot of work to cherry pick without the actual source lol.

 

Maybe someday someone will reprogram the game and hack out all the resources from all the known versions though, I think that'd be really cool but most likely wishful thinking :-D

 

here is a chart of the version features:

 

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Edited by Willard
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So which is the most "complete" version found?

 

that's a good question :P They all are different, and some people may prefer some elements over others. Check out that grid. I'd go with the earliest one. It has no ammo / energy pickups, completing mission objectives is not mandatory, and the level architecture is missing a little refinement. But both enemy types are present, the floor and the ceiling are shaded, enemies attack (they still don't hurt you, hit detection on the player is not present in any version), and you can play through as the predator.

 

The game gets a speed boost without the shaded ceiling and floors. But, I prefer the looks of the shading, and the extra speed isn't that much or that necessary.

Edited by Willard
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That is awesome! Are you planning on releasing them all four on separate boards, or releasing the roms to the general public? Great find and very interesting news coming from that gentleman's website!

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Once in the Virtual Boy community a prototype of a game showed up and it was extended to make a full working game out of that. Would be great if something like that would be also possible for those Atari Lynx prototype versions here. I guess the tricky part is that there are several prototypes and I think it might super complicated to combine them.

Anyway, great news! It would be nice to get that released on cartridge as it would look great on my Lynx with the new LCD replacement screen. :D :thumbsup:

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Once in the Virtual Boy community a prototype of a game showed up and it was extended to make a full working game out of that. Would be great if something like that would be also possible for those Atari Lynx prototype versions here.

I know and i can't believe it missed that release (the original as well as the finished game) - i would've bought a VB just for that! :_(

 

As for the idea to do that with AvP, yes, that would be rather most awsome! ;)

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I know and i can't believe it missed that release (the original as well as the finished game) - i would've bought a VB just for that! :_(

 

As for the idea to do that with AvP, yes, that would be rather most awsome! ;)

I don´t want to go off-topic here, I just want to mention that you can always get a Flashboy+ for The Virtual Boy and then you can play that game and also others. The only ROM not working on it is the full version of Hyper Fighting as it is too big. Here you see the Flashboy+ in action:

http://youtu.be/DTarqw4McRE

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In an ideal world and one where Atari handled the Lynx very differently, it would have been fantastic to see a 'joint Lynx/Jaguar Bundle' hitting the shelves kinda the Deluxe pack with Lynx MK 2+Lynx AVP and a Jaguar+Jag AVP and the Lynx as Motion Tracker link-up worked into the Jaguar game.

I loved Atari's AVP Jag TV ad, plus they were plastering 2 page ads in the UK press at the time for it, so i'm sure marketing could have really 'run' with such a bundle and whilst not reversing the Jaguar or Lynxes fortunes by a long shot, it might have done something to hold both systems in somewhat higher regard than they are often refered to be 'jurnolists' out there that simply write both off as 'failures' without i bet very much if any personal exp.
They are just filling column inches in an article.
Lynx badly needed more games like AVP, i cannot comment on Road Riot or Hot Dog as not had exp.of either on the Lynx. Road Riot was'nt too hot on SNES though was it?

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You make a vey good point (Willard) about the ' strategy involved killing the system for a year to bring it back later on'...whilst i've been in personal contact with a few Ex-Atari UK staff over the past few months, some were only involved in the ST etc range, others ST and Jaguar, others P.R, i guess decisions to 'Retire' the Lynx and then look at feasibility of re-launching it on back of the Jaguar Marketing Campain would have come from Atari USA side of things, we 'know' the German side of Atari was'nt interested that much in the console range of Atari's products, Atari Uk were, but often seemed unaware of plans being made in the USA, maybe Atari simply thought there was'nt the market? and with limited funds, everything had to go on the Jaguar, that being Atari's make or break product?.

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At least the content of the ROM is (in contrast to Lemmings or Chips Challenge for example) not packed.

Thus hacking is much easier.

Nevertheless its NOT just replacing a few pictures or modifing the directory like in HotDog.

It might be even more work than the things I did last last year with Chips Challenge.

 

At least from the sprites I found in the "old" prototype, it looks like the alien mode is already "in", as there is a HUD and the "weapons" for the alien.

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Hi. Just signed up after seeing that there might be some more AVP protos, and I see that you have a link to my site. I found the Alien campaign after digging around the game on my PSP (which was the only way I could see of developing any codes for the game). And yes, the background of the game is a bit sketchy on my site, I know.icon_winking.gif Any further details or corrections about the history of the game would be welcome.

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:-( Well, keeping with my policy of being open+honest with the good folk on here, i WAS hoping to bring some insights into 'What happened to...'Lynx AVP, as i'd had questions on this and 'other' games he was involved with, sat with him for a few months, but he's emailed tonight saying he's some health issues, so cannot get to computer as/when he'd like...

 

So i've cancelled the Q+A stuff with him.

 

He wanted to do it via SKYPE or direct phone line, but whilst it would have been fantastic to gleam some insights, they are, to be honest (these interviews/lost game investigations i do), in 'real world terms' utterly trival matters and i'd not feel comfortable asking him knowing what was on his mind at present.

 

It's just a bit of a past time for myself to clear up what i can/where i can, in terms of misc lost game findings.Peoples health etc are what really matters and the REAL heroes are those making the Roms etc avaiable to the community...

 

Just thought i'd update the community here.

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At least from the sprites I found in the "old" prototype, it looks like the alien mode is already "in", as there is a HUD and the "weapons" for the alien.

 

Yes, as I understand it based on dr_kirk's webpage the alien mode was just disabled (well, that's probably oversimplifying the issue!) and he showed how to access it with a cheat program. I have to wonder what other elements are in the newest versions (the currently available B&C version and our 03.07.1995 version) that are remnants from earlier revisions that were just disabled and not taken out. If there were a debug menu that'd be really cool.

 

Hi. Just signed up after seeing that there might be some more AVP protos, and I see that you have a link to my site. I found the Alien campaign after digging around the game on my PSP (which was the only way I could see of developing any codes for the game). And yes, the background of the game is a bit sketchy on my site, I know.icon_winking.gif Any further details or corrections about the history of the game would be welcome.

 

That was a very cool discovery! A 3 character version with the alien enabled by default has sold in the past but has been held by private collectors, so not many have had a chance to play it. I don't think many people thought it'd be in the ROMs we had all along! Are you a Lynx / Alien fan or why the random digging in the ROM? :P

 

Lynx badly needed more games like AVP, i cannot comment on Road Riot or Hot Dog as not had exp.of either on the Lynx. Road Riot was'nt too hot on SNES though was it?

 

I think Road Riot is a pretty good game for the Lynx, especially once you get into the habit of landing straight after coming off of hills. But imo it really stands out from a technical perspective, and showed the Lynx's competitive strength against system that came out years later, including the Game Gear and GBC. The SNES version is weird with its' forced split screen (maybe they thought it was cool since Mario Kart did it?), they are both arcade ports, I think the lynx did much better.

 

Hotdog was a pretty ambitious platformer (full disclosure: it was one of the games we found!), but I think the lynx could've really benefited from a high quality original platformer, especially when the genre was so popular, and hotdog had the gameplay, graphics, level variety, and even a lot of personality to stand out imo.

Edited by Willard
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Are you a Lynx / Alien fan or why the random digging in the ROM? icon_razz.gif

I've always been a fan of AVP, especially on the Jaguar. But playing through the Lynx game, I thought it was odd that the Predator campaign had the Alien ending, so I wondered if the Alien missions were in there somewhere too. So I tried to find some program to create cheats for the Lynx but ended up using my PSP instead.

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I think (Willard) it's now becoming very clear, once you piece everything from Ex-Atari staff (UK and USA) that Atari knew it did'nt have the funds it's competitors had so every $ and £ avaiable had to go on marketing the Jaguar.Darryl Still i seem to recal wrote to Edge (?) 'defending' Atari UK's lack of TV advertising over a key period, explaining just how much it cost to advertise on TV and how instead Atari UK were using magazine (and radio?) advertising instead.

I think given just how many of those 'Let the Games Begin' titles never made it or in case of Red Line Racing, looked far worse than advertised, Atari would have over-reached even more, if they'd re-launched the Lynx with just a handful of titles at best.

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Having recently watched vid of Hotdog on YouTube, totally agree, it and AVP were the sort of games that would really have raised the Lynx to another level, but then having said that, if we'd actually seen Atari release half of the missing Lynx games that have been covered on here over the years, things could have been so different.

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