Problems copying .ATR files to floppy

[blacka013]

Hi All,

 

I have two problems with my Sio2pc (usb version) when copying files from .atr to floppy through APE.

 

1. I use to be able to boot dos2.5 xl from floppy disk 1, use floppy disk 2 as the physical disk to copy to, with the image loaded to disk 3 in APE. Having not used the set up for some months, this setup no longer works. I cannot do a Disk Directory (A) listing of disk 3 from DOS. Neither will Duplicate Disk from DOS (J) work.

 

If I switch off the 2nd floppy disk and load an image onto disk 2 in APE, and then do a Disk Directory from DOS everything is fine.

 

I have tried using 2 unmodified drives, but the result is the same.

 

2. having transferred a .atr file to disk, some of these fail to load. Some of these are games disks, and some are utility programmes. The one I am especially trying to transfer is DOS XE.

 

Hopefully someone can help me out.

 

Thanks in anticipation.

 

 

 

[+bob1200xl]

You need a DOS that is configured for more than 2 drives if you want to use D3:. Run SETUP.COM from the DOS 2.5 disk.

 

Many non-DOS disks have to be sector-copied with special software in order to be copied. Search for a sector copier.

 

Bob

[Guest]

also couple of other things i've noticed about SIO2PC (usb)

when it "suddenly stops" doing what it previously did ok, i tried the following in this order:-

 

1] switched D1 and D2 over

2] tried different SIO cables - thru ALL your system

3] re-install APE/Prosystem from scratch

 

one final thing,

i found that if sometimes "booting the atari" first then loading APE works better (the instructions say not needed)

[blacka013]

Hi,

 

and thanks for the info. Have run setup and it works. Not sure why the difference as the DOS disk has been write protected throughout. So item 1 solved.

 

Item 2, which sector copier do you recommend, and how do you copy a .atr file to a floppy with it? Again thanks in advance for the advice.

[1050]

Write protect status is something DOS can sometimes ignore, what you did was just set up buffer number 3 for use by drive 3 which wasn't capable of use before. As distributed DOS 2.5 has only two buffers for two drives. You will need to (H) Write DOS files back to your boot disk or the changes won't be in effect the next time you boot it up. NOW you might have troubles with write protect status doing this?

 

I'd like to know the sector copier to use for ATR 2 disk making and method as well, but in the meantime you can use DiskFormer on the Atari to make an atr file into a real disk.

http://atari.kensclassics.org/a8utilities.html

 

You are aware that storing an atr file on the same size disk using DOS won't work because an atr is always bigger than a real disk is to begin with? DOS also is using several sectors for file management so you need to store SD and ED atr files on a DD disk or they won't fit. Trying to convert a DD atr file into a real disk becomes problematic unless the atr file is stored on a hard drive/ram disk where such data storage limits aren't a problem.

 

An atr file is uncompressed data meaning it's raw disk data that hasn't been arced or zipped to be smaller in size. On the PC you can use acvt

http://www.atarimax.com/jindroush.atari.org/asoft.html

to convert an atr file to the compressed DCM form of file that will usually fit the same sized disk because this form of disk storage does use arc compression. Use DiskCommunicator on the Atari to make a real disk from a DCM file.

http://nleaudio.com/css/Files.htm

If you are using a ram disk do not allow Disk Communicator to use it too or it will scramble your files stored on it. It wants to use the ram disk in data block mode to make one pass copies instead of the two or three pass method it has to use if extended memory use is disallowed.

 

If you mount the atr file as a disk on the PC you may also be able to use DOS's J duplicate disk function to make a real disk from the emulated one. But I would only use this method by specifying the exact sector number range to be duplicated. Find out how this is done in the manual, something like (1-720) or (1-1040) needs to be input - I have zero experience with this one so I'll point you to the manual again. Under (J) Duplicate Disk function. If you leave it automatically detecting with just J 3,2 choice, the destination disk may not be formatted correctly, at least this is a bug in MyDOS on ED disks.

[Kyle22]

Write protect status is something DOS can sometimes ignore....

 

The DRIVE sends this back to DOS when an attempt is made to write to a protected disk. I have no idea how any DOS could possibly bypass it. You should have gotten ERROR - 144 Device Done.

 

Some people have installed a switch on the write-protect sensor, or disabled it causing the DRIVE to ignore write-protect status, but the DOS cannot ignore an error from the drive which is REFUSING to carry out the write command.

 

Did it just change the DOS in RAM? If you re-boot that disk, does it see drive 3? If it does now, then your disk got written to. If the disk has no notch, or the notch is covered by an OPAQUE, LIGHT-PROOF sticker, then writing should not be possible, unless the drive has been modified.

 

And, YES, you CAN sector-copy an .ATR image of the same density and sector count to a real floppy of the same dimensions. If the image fills the disk, then you won't have room to add DOS.SYS / DUP.SYS to it, but that's usually not necessary. If you need DOS, boot a DOS disk first, then swap.

[+bob1200xl]

Hi,

 

and thanks for the info. Have run setup and it works. Not sure why the difference as the DOS disk has been write protected throughout. So item 1 solved.

 

Item 2, which sector copier do you recommend, and how do you copy a .atr file to a floppy with it? Again thanks in advance for the advice.

 

Mount the SPCOPY.ATR as drive 1 in APE. Set your real drive as D2: and insert a formatted disk (or, reply 'yes' to "Format Destinations" if the diskette is not formatted).

 

Boot SPCOPY.ATR from APE D1: and reply as shown.

 

Press the START key when you are ready to copy.

 

You can also use just one drive, but you have to swap disks and such - a bother if you are using both APE and a SIO drive as D1:.

 

Good luck!

 

Bob

 

SPCOPY.atr

 

[blacka013]

OK all,

 

I will go away and have ago. Much appreciation for the help given.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[1050]

Kyle22, thinking we are talking two entirely different things all over the place. Disk drive hardware level write protect was not what I was talking about at all. Only the asterisk flag shown in directory listings for protected files and none for unprotected files.

 

Yes the changes were only done to RAM which is why he needs to write DOS files back to disk or those changes won't be there if he reboots as is.

 

You can't store a 91K atr file on a 90K disk, without loss of data even if you did sector copy it directly.

You can't copy an atr file with a sector copier to a disk and have it boot. If you can boot it, you didn't start with an atr FILE, you used a real disk made from an atr file and they are NOT the same thing. There is an added 16 byte header in all atr files that is NOT bootable. An atr file will also contain DOS file storage links that can not appear in the real disk made from an atr file or it won't work either. All together these extra bytes comprise the 1K difference between an atr file and the real disk size it was made from. It is based on real disk image, but there is overhead info involved that will pooch the deal when you treat one as the same as the other. Even XFD files which don't have the 16 byte atr header will still have DOS storage file links in it so no joy here either. Only on the PC do images of disks become actual sector for sector duplicates of the disk they came from. On the Atari this never happens.

 

Only mounting the atr file as a floppy disk in an emulator that will automagically strip the header and the DOS file storage links will then allow a sector copier to achieve any success at all in making real disks from atr files. Can also use Duplicate disk in DOS for this once the atr file is mounted by the emulator as a floppy disk. Without the emulator doing the grunt work for us, it's a dedicated program to do this with or no joy.

[Kyle22]

Kyle22, thinking we are talking two entirely different things all over the place. Disk drive hardware level write protect was not what I was talking about at all. Only the asterisk flag shown in directory listings for protected files and none for unprotected files.

 

Yes the changes were only done to RAM which is why he needs to write DOS files back to disk or those changes won't be there if he reboots as is.

 

You can't store a 91K atr file on a 90K disk, without loss of data even if you did sector copy it directly.

You can't copy an atr file with a sector copier to a disk and have it boot. If you can boot it, you didn't start with an atr FILE, you used a real disk made from an atr file and they are NOT the same thing. There is an added 16 byte header in all atr files that is NOT bootable. An atr file will also contain DOS file storage links that can not appear in the real disk made from an atr file or it won't work either. All together these extra bytes comprise the 1K difference between an atr file and the real disk size it was made from. It is based on real disk image, but there is overhead info involved that will pooch the deal when you treat one as the same as the other. Even XFD files which don't have the 16 byte atr header will still have DOS storage file links in it so no joy here either. Only on the PC do images of disks become actual sector for sector duplicates of the disk they came from. On the Atari this never happens.

 

Only mounting the atr file as a floppy disk in an emulator that will automagically strip the header and the DOS file storage links will then allow a sector copier to achieve any success at all in making real disks from atr files. Can also use Duplicate disk in DOS for this once the atr file is mounted by the emulator as a floppy disk. Without the emulator doing the grunt work for us, it's a dedicated program to do this with or no joy.

Yes, we are talking about different things here. Software vs hardware write protection, and it never occourred to me that someone may attempt to copy an ATR FILE to a real floppy. I assumed that he was trying to mount the ATR in APE as a drive, then sector copy the IMAGE contained in the ATR to a physical disk.