How has this not been posted yet? Retro VGS

[PikoInteractive]

I have two comments.

 

1.- They are concentrating in what they did and not what they are doing.

2.- It seems like they ruled out people they can't control or bully around (not saying that they are bullies) Aside from NGDEV team, the games available (not in negotiations) are from very small teams, which can be controller or pushed around.

[phoenixdownita]

WRT GunLord, this is what Mike has to say (IGG comment)

 

Mike Kennedy

41 minutes ago

Hi Billie,

NG:DEV.TEAM the developers of Gunlord will be bring their game through the ARM side of our system. They have their own game engine that will work independently from the FPGA.

[Andromeda Stardust]

New update to their FB page. More mention about Apple, Atari, Sega, etc. More talk about how you can hand this console down to your children. Zero talk about the hardware specs or any actual, physical proof that this exists. In other words, more snake oil.

I hear snake blood is a delicacy in Vietnam.

[Rhomaios]

They're really starting to reek of desperation.

 

Starting? This travesty was desperation from day 1.

[phoenixdownita]

They have 1 update in the IGG:

 

Many of you had questions about how to add additional games or controllers to your pledges and I wanted to address this here. First off, when you click one of the available "Perks" you will notice below the perk description it will say "Additional Gift" and then the word "Custom". If you click on "Custom" you will then be able to add any additional dollar amount you want. So in that area, add up the games and/or controller amounts and add to that field. Simple as that and if you've already pledged I think you can go back in and add that "Custom" amount to your original contribution.

 

 

You THINK, so you don't know?? Maybe you should try it yourself, maybe with your wife account or something.

Edited September 21, 2015 by phoenixdownita

[+madman]

You THINK, so you don't know?? Maybe you should try it yourself, maybe with your wife account or something.

Sounds like a job for Keatah.

[Algus]

Keatah don't use wifi though so we'll have to wait for his 2800 baud modem to phone indiegogo

[+grips03]

My hope was that Retro VGS would have been FPGA based console that supported older consoles (Colecovision, Intellivision, etc.) and arcade hardware. But perhaps this stuff is better left to emulators.

[+madman]

Guys, you can't make this stuff up:

 

 

I co-founded a game developer that sold for nearly as much as Atari. The experience and knowledge I gained there through reverse-engineering the Sony PlayStation later got me hired by Sony, to develop a PlayStation.

So John Carlsen got hired by Sony because of his reverse engineering of the Playstation and Sony then hired him to develop the Playstation. Are flux capacitors one of the IGG perks?

[2600 Forever]

FIXED!

 

 

My hope was that Retro VGS would have been FPGA based console that supported older consoles (Colecovision, Intellivision, etc.) and arcade hardware. But perhaps this stuff is better left to emulators Kevin, since he has already finished 17 of them.

[jaybird3rd]

Are flux capacitors one of the IGG perks?

That must be how he racked up those decades of experience we've all heard so much about. He's a time traveler!

 

But seriously, checking in with CrowdCharts ... it seems that, after the first-day burst of backers, the campaign has gone almost completely flat. They've added seven backers in the last eight hours, they're still at 3% of their goal, and they're still projected to reach only 50%.

[Algus]

Your snark isn't appreciated Jay. We're lucky to have these veteran Captains of Industry on this project.

[phoenixdownita]

Guys, you can't make this stuff up:

 

 

So John Carlsen got hired by Sony because of his reverse engineering of the Playstation and Sony then hired him to develop the Playstation. Are flux capacitors one of the IGG perks?

This is just a small misreading.

 

I believe him when he says that working at a developer he had to rev eng the PS to develop games on it, the knowledge gained from it got him hired later at Sony to develop a newer revision/version of the Playstation console (I believe it is the cheaper one for emerging markets).

 

So nothing bad in there, just poor choice of words.

Edited September 21, 2015 by phoenixdownita

[CPUWIZ]

This is just a small misreading.

 

I believe him when he says that working at a developer he had to rev eng the PS to develop games on it, the knowledge gained from it got him hired later at Sony to develop a newer revision/version of the Playstation console (I believe it is the cheaper one for emerging markets).

 

So nothing bad in there, just poor choice of words.

 

Perhaps not the best choice of words, I know of plenty of people who developed games on the PS1, without reverse engineering it. Me and a co-worker spent quite a bit of time reverse engineering the only part of the PS1, that needed reverse engineering, the GTE, because the game had to run at 60FPS.

[tcdev]

But seriously, checking in with CrowdCharts ... it seems that, after the first-day burst of backers, the campaign has gone almost completely flat. They've added seven backers in the last eight hours, they're still at 3% of their goal, and they're still projected to reach only 50%.

 

I think the important thing to note is that this campaign has been heavily marketed for some time now, and you'd think that most likely backers would already know about it, and would have jumped on the bandwagon ASAP. It's not the type of product that would appeal to casual consumers that just happen across it; you pretty much need to be an enthusiast to appreciate and understand what the point of this console is. And odds are, if you are an enthusiast, you already knew about it.

 

For this reason I don't see any hope of a surge in backers at any point, and I think it'll stagnate below 25% before the team silently disappear after a conspicuous absence on social media.

 

A pity because it could have been so much more.

Edited September 21, 2015 by tcdev

[Andromeda Stardust]

Vapourware...

[phoenixdownita]

 

Perhaps not the best choice of words, I know of plenty of people who developed games on the PS1, without reverse engineering it. Me and a co-worker spent quite a bit of time reverse engineering the only part of the PS1, that needed reverse engineering, the GTE, because the game had to run at 60FPS.

I don't know what he actually did although somewhat I have fond memories of Iguana.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acclaim_Studios_Austin

I guess their little intro was fun to watch, I remember them mostly for Turok on N64.

Edited September 21, 2015 by phoenixdownita

[jaybird3rd]

I think the important thing to note is that this campaign has been heavily marketed for some time now, and you'd think that most likely backers would already know about it, and would have jumped on the bandwagon ASAP. It's not the type of product that would appeal to casual consumers that just happen across it; you pretty much need to be an enthusiast to appreciate and understand what the point of this console is. And odds are, if you are an enthusiast, you already knew about it.

 

For this reason I don't see any hope of a surge in backers at any point, and I think it'll stagnate below 25% before the team silently disappear after a conspicuous absence on social media.

 

A pity because it could have been so much more.

I have the same impression. I figured earlier that their support would level off after a burst of pledges from the early enthusiasts, and although it's still early, it seems so far that it's playing out just that way. I wouldn't count on international orders to bail them out, either: their insistence on having everything "Made in the USA" isn't likely to resonate in the same way with non-Americans, and it's only made the unit cost and international shipping way too expensive.

 

It is a pity that this project has ended up in the place that it has. I was very optimistic when I heard their early plans, and especially when they managed to acquire the original Jaguar injection molds. Buying the molds, and recovering that investment right away by manufacturing specialty shells for Jaguar owners, was a smart bit of entrepreneurship that gave me the impression that they had good business sense as well as a passion for games. But in retrospect, that was always the easy part: figuring out what should go inside those shells is where they went astray. The work that Kevtris has done with his FPGA-based designs should have served as a model, and if it had, I think we'd be having a much different conversation here.

 

The people involved with the RVGS may be nice people (although their evasive and snippy reactions to the community have given me serious doubts about that), but if they succeed in their fundraising efforts but fail to deliver on their promises, as they inevitably will for obvious reasons, my fear is that it will only generate ill will and suspicion toward other similar projects in the future. This can only hurt the chances of people like Kevtris, who have what it takes to make a "retro style" console the right way.

[CPUWIZ]

I don't know what he actually did although somewhat I have fond memories of Iguana.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acclaim_Studios_Austin

I guess their little intro was fun to watch, I remember them mostly for Turok on N64.

 

I am not dissing any one of them, just to be clear.

 

EDIT: And yes, I am familiar with Iguana, I lived in the area at the time.

[Keatah]

They've just posted an update to the Indiegogo project. Apparently, those of us who have been raising legitimate questions and criticisms are simply "misinformed":

 

 

So, no substantive response, none of the details people have been clamoring for, just another argument from authority: "No matter what anybody else tells you, trust us because we're the experts."

We're misinformed 'cause we were given misinformation. Don't blame us! And DO NOT TELL others to not listen to us.

[PlaysWithWolves]

I think Kevtris having actual software and hardware would win people back, I think.

 

Any bets on developer board pictures incoming?

 

It's going to be so strange getting the blame for this, should the campaign fail.

Edited September 21, 2015 by PlaysWithWolves

[phoenixdownita]

....

 

It's going to be so strange getting the blame for this, should the campaign fail.

OK, now you are overestimating the role played here.

 

They are to blame for not having a working proto, and they do not have a working proto because they were dicking around with the specs up to the last minute when the price increase blew in their face.

 

The "we don't go with KS because even if they will bend the proto rule for us it's not right being deceitful [were they implying they would have been silent on the absence of the proto if possible?], but we go with IGG because they don't have the proto rule at all [and they simply DON'T HAVE a proto]" it's so backward.

 

Since then it's been a litany of "trust us with 2M or maybe 4M 'cause we know what we're doing" kind of nonsense.

If they knew what they were doing they would have had a proto 3 months ago to show off and to which the developers could start porting. The Tiny Knight thing is all ARM only, so is GunLord, what have they done to show that the FPGA part even make sense given "you don't want to run retro games per se"?

 

Come to think of it an underpowered console that only pretends to be retro via the cart gimmick, and it is so castrated that only 2D 16bit style games can be developed on it is weird .... I think I'll check back in a week or so to see how it evolved, hopefully I won't have to wade thru umpteen pages of posts.

Edited September 21, 2015 by phoenixdownita

[triverse]

I am on their FB now helping with "damage control". They are not paying me, they probably wish I would stop actually, but since they aren't going to answer any questions, I may as well. Besides, it is just adding more meat to my next article on this thing (I plan on covering Piko and Kevin leaving among other things). Should be interesting.

 

For those interested, I am working on relaunching RGM (probably around the first of next year). We plan to use 32-bit color, HD images and possibly an ARM to turn the pages.

[phoenixdownita]

I think Kevtris having actual software and hardware would win people back, I think.

 

If he backs them up and they take on developing adapters for many of those old systems cheap (say 20US$ each for the connectors and cart housing) it may actually pull thru even if without knowing what FPGA is even speculated it's hard to know if that's it, meaning barely capable of what's already there with no chance to tackle the big 16bits .

Edited September 21, 2015 by phoenixdownita

[rob_ocelot]

The people involved with the RVGS may be nice people (although their evasive and snippy reactions to the community have given me serious doubts about that), but if they succeed in their fundraising efforts but fail to deliver on their promises, as they inevitably will for obvious reasons, my fear is that it will only generate ill will and suspicion toward other similar projects in the future. This can only hurt the chances of people like Kevtris, who have what it takes to make a "retro style" console the right way.

 

Conversely, I think they may have inadvertantly left a very nice niche market open for someone like Kev to swoop in and capitalize on.

 

Almost everyone remotely interested in retrogaming is watching -- even if it's the gawkers just for the schadenfreude. You have probably the largest captive audience of retrogamers you could possibly get short of a con with free booze and strippers. Someone who right now can produce what RetroVGS apparently cannot will have not only everyone's attention, but as a bonus a lot of the heavy lifting required to get that attention has already been done.

 

Mike's treatment of Kev on these forums on the eve of the IGG campaign may have been the lynchpin for some who were undecided about their support of the project.

Edited September 21, 2015 by rob_ocelot