FUBARofPittsburgh Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 The only interesting thing about the Retro VGS was the ability to develop new games for old systems and have a new platform to release them on. Why not focus on that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) In addition to any irritation that laser might cause when it strikes the skin. What if I have a pimple or a razor bump or something? Not sure what to say but let's consider another totally different product for a moment. The Roomba IRobot series of cleaners. I am pretty sure the first few versions may not have been "pet-aware" .... and by that I mean that if my pet peed (or God no -> liquid-ish poop) somewhere the Roomba would gladly have spread that shit around so well that it would have taken months to get it out of all the corners it managed to smear it in. I am not sure what safeguard they have in place these days if any or if it is simply a note in the manual that says "don't use if you have pets". Back to the LaZor/RaZer or whatever that thing is called, at this stage I expect a note in the manual that says "don't use if you have pimples, bumps, irregular skin, you are pregnant or planning to become pregnant, lactating or planning to lactate and above all never ever shave your balls with it". "simple as that" Edited November 24, 2015 by phoenixdownita 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 The only interesting thing about the Retro VGS was the ability to develop new games for old systems and have a new platform to release them on. Why not focus on that? I suspect there was a wide variety of reasons why people liked RVGS; mostly because of the way it was marketed. At one point, could it play new games ported to carts, but also "hardware-emulated" games with the FPGA cores built into the cartridges themselves. I know Kennedy brought up making an RVGS core, too, which appealed to those looking for a new system. At the peak of marketing—mere weeks from the IGG campaign—it could do all that and play old cartridges via a simple adapter. It was pretty much whatever we wanted it to be—until it wasn't. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 It was pretty much whatever we wanted it to beuntil it wasn't. Yup. As pure potential, it's great. Such a lovely idea shouldn't be brought down into the physical world, constrained by money and reality. Perhaps a "dreamer's corner" would be appropriate for this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bretthorror Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 The only interesting thing about the Retro VGS was the ability to develop new games for old systems and have a new platform to release them on. Why not focus on that? Why would I buy a NES game on the RVGS when I already have an NES? That was the first fatal flaw of their FPGA system in general. In their minds, they thought they were going to be able to put NES games on RVGS carts and the FPGA would run the NES game. Except here's the thing - if this NES game is so good, it's already going to have its own NES cart. So their idea doesn't actually help their console for software royalties unless they started what I predicted, and that's trying to run the homebrew market as well selling carts for other systems and becoming the all encompassing homebrew source. I don't think they were smart enough to facilitate this, though, so I'll just go with the fact the goofs thought people would buy a game built from the ground up for NES on a RVGS cart instead of an NES one. The workaround would be paying someone to be release that NES game exclusive to their console, with a real NES cart release to be released subsequently. But the RVGS team didn't want to pay Kevtris let alone developers a fee to have an exclusive game, so shit like that never will happen. Instead of hiring the SNK guy, they should have hired talented up and coming software developers or homebrewers to make them some exclusive games, have a 2600, a NES and a SNES style game to show off your retro system off with and you might have something. And if it is too costly to do that, then throw in the towel. Your Kickstarter may succeed - fair enough, but no one out of the top 1% of the richest/dumbest retro collectors are gonna want anything to do with your system without games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Why would I buy a NES game on the RVGS when I already have an NES? Well, one of the big ideas was that it would have HDMI output. A lot of people latched onto the FPGA idea when they teased that they would support classic games with various cartridge port adapters. And if that would happen your RVGS doubles as a Retron 5. Instead of hiring the SNK guy, they should have hired talented up and coming software developers or homebrewers to make them some exclusive games, have a 2600, a NES and a SNES style game to show off your retro system off with and you might have something. And if it is too costly to do that, then throw in the towel. Your Kickstarter may succeed - fair enough, but no one out of the top 1% of the richest/dumbest retro collectors are gonna want anything to do with your system without games. You hit on a good point there. A big problem with the RVGS is that they firmly believe in "if you build it, they will come" which is great for them because that means less work, they just make the console and surf the wave of success on a LazyBoy recliner. But that doesn't really apply to game consoles and for a game company that prides itself on recreating the success of the past I'm surprised they don't know this. The earliest cartridge based game consoles were only designed with first party games in mind, including the Atari 2600. It was a landmark achievement (and it royally pissed off Atari) when Activision became the first third party game publisher, an idea like that was unheard of at the time. People just assumed that if you released a console you would support it with good games. To some extent that still exists, first party developed games are some of the best on a console. Nintendo stays in the market despite having technologically inferior products because their first party games are superior to anything else out there. So yeah, you have a point, if they would focus on games they might find out that takes care of a lot of their marketing woes. Good first party exclusive games are a marketing campaign in themselves. Oh, and the Dragon's Lair movie trailer Kickstarter was cancelled and guess where they're heading now... Edited November 25, 2015 by StopDrop&Retro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-type Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Oh, and the Dragon's Lair movie trailer Kickstarter was cancelled and guess where they're heading now... What? Why?! The problem was not the funding platform. It was the ridiculous amount of money they were trying to raise for just their pitch. Who kickstarts a pitch video anyway? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bretthorror Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Well, one of the big ideas was that it would have HDMI output. A lot of people latched onto the FPGA idea when they teased that they would support classic games with various cartridge port adapters. And if that would happen your RVGS doubles as a Retron 5. You hit on a good point there. A big problem with the RVGS is that they firmly believe in "if you build it, they will come" which is great for them because that means less work, they just make the console and surf the wave of success on a LazyBoy recliner. But that doesn't really apply to game consoles and for a game company that prides itself on recreating the success of the past I'm surprised they don't know this. The earliest cartridge based game consoles were only designed with first party games in mind, including the Atari 2600. It was a landmark achievement (and it royally pissed off Atari) when Activision became the first third party game publisher, an idea like that was unheard of at the time. People just assumed that if you released a console you would support it with good games. To some extent that still exists, first party developed games are some of the best on a console. Nintendo stays in the market despite having technologically inferior products because their first party games are superior to anything else out there. So yeah, you have a point, if they would focus on games they might find out that takes care of a lot of their marketing woes. Good first party exclusive games are a marketing campaign in themselves. Oh, and the Dragon's Lair movie trailer Kickstarter was cancelled and guess where they're heading now... Re: Dragon's Lair, Pat & Ian called that shit, too. But in my opinon the NES FPGA doesn't give them a blank cheque, they have to make an NES homebrewer decide to exclusively develop for the RVGS or they can only emulate their software being sold elsewhere for probably more royalties. The fact they could put an NES in a RVGS doesn't mean jack. Developer of Great NES Game of 2016 #1 has to give RVGS his game for 1000 console owners when he can release his NES game on an NES cart and not an RVGS one. That's where the RVGS FPGA makes no sense for RETROLAND; it makes no sense on the hardcore collector side, or if they let us use ROMs, the rest of us. But the dev of Great NES Game of 2016 has no reason to put his shit on RVGS unless they pay him to not put his game on a homebrew NES cart. And like I said, they didn't want to pay Kevtris for FPGAs let alone developers to be exclusive. That means they could only make money on the cart adapters. Try making the money back from FPGA makers from that. On the premise of FPGA, the RVGS is like an Ouya. Except we can't run roms on their shit. So it's useless. Sure, the hardware would be beneficial to those wanting a HDMI NES, but that's not what they, Retroland want or could profit from. And they can't profit off people wanting and HDMI NES because once people get that, their software is irrelevant if that's all they want it for. Edited November 25, 2015 by bretthorror 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 No one in RVGS' team has the credentials to make winning 1st party games. It would have to be 3rd party developers. And while RVGS is toiling in insignificance I'm having loads of fun gaming on real here-today platforms and emulators! Oh, and the Dragon's Lair movie trailer Kickstarter was cancelled and guess where they're heading now... WAT?? A kickstarter to raise money to make a promo trailer to generate interest in making a movie based off of a 25 year old videogame? That's really reaching. And this kickstarter -to- indiegogo transition seems to be a common theme these days? Yes? You fail on kickstarter and retry on indiegogo. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Hierophant Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I'm sure that the flexible funding option that Indiegoogo provides had absolutely nothing to do with their decision. :sarcasm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 WAT?? A kickstarter to raise money to make a promo trailer to generate interest in making a movie based off of a 25 year old video game? Dragon's Lair is a 32-year-old video game. It came out in 1983. 25 years ago is 1990. Super Mario Brothers 3, Mega Man 3, Dr. Mario, and Final Fantasy on NES in the USA Super Mario World and F-Zero on Super Famicom in Japan Neo Geo home console PC games included Wing Commander, The Secret of Monkey Island, Ultima VI, Railroad Tycoon, and King's Quest V. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVG_Steve Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 New update on Facebook Also, back to the board of directors discussion, how about some trivia? Does anyone remember who Mike wanted to have on his advisory board? *gasp* I'm stunned. Issue #10 is finally going to come out? December-ish? Wow, someone stop the presses! Sorry if I can't get excited for this, but Retro has left a sour taste in my mouth. They promised us they would catch up and release issue 12 by the end of this year. When they said this earlier this year I mostly doubted it, but part of me wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt. Now I see why I doubted them. This has been one grossly mishandled project that has, by and large, flopped. When I first saw the kickstarter for the magazine in 2013, I was all excited as hell. I quickly jumped on board and obviously there were growing pains in the publication's first year that I was willing to overlook. After all, it took even EGM a while to hit its stride back in the early '90s. Then the delays started happening. We're talking 3-4 month delays. Empty promises. Tons of customers never receiving back issues as promised. And the content itself? Sub-par at best. Disappointing. It doesn't even feel like a retro gaming mag. If you're going to take upwards to 4 months to produce a single issue, it better be God-like. I get these issues in the mail, blow through them in about 10 minutes and I'm left feeling a little cheated, to be honest. You have one job: release a quality product every other month. If you can't even do that then you're just shooting yourself in the foot. I was once a big supporter of Retro but now I have to say if they go for a year 3, they ain't getting my money. Fool me once, shame on you (year 1). Fool me twice, shame on me (year 2). Worst of all, these guys have had next to zero communication. What's up with the horrendous delays? No words from them keeping subscriber up to date. The whole operation reeks of shadiness. I'm just disappointed. Talk about a massive misstep in what could have been a pretty good thing. I guess I'll stick to flipping through my old EGMs and GameFans for my retro gaming magazine fix. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Iacovelli Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) it takes time to produce zine you have to make everything good,before you can set for print. otherwise people would complain saying it was put together bad. Edited November 25, 2015 by Dan Iacovelli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVG_Steve Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 it takes time to produce zine you have to make everything good,before you can set for print. otherwise people would complain saying it was put together bad. Have you read the last few issues? They took 3-4 months each, and are (arguably) far worse than their earlier issues. It's a matter of opinion but if you poke around you'll find folks saying they are very disappointed with the overall execution of the magazine. The delays are just the icing on the cake. And granted, yes, it takes time to produce a quality magazine. But if you're going to advertise yourself as a bi-monthly magazine, then live up to your word. Or change your word and let the fans know. Doing as you please, keeping folks in the dark and going against your own word is only a bad look for your own brand. And it causes subscribers, such as myself, to lose interest and faith in the product. Which leads to people leaving, and leads to a quick demise of that brand. At this point, honestly, I'd be shocked if they make it to a 30th issue. I could see them quietly disbanding at some point in 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Iacovelli Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 no I havent I digital subscription though but havent gone through most of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Sorry if I can't get excited for this, but Retro has left a sour taste in my mouth. They promised us they would catch up and release issue 12 by the end of this year. When they said this earlier this year I mostly doubted it, but part of me wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt. Now I see why I doubted them. This has been one grossly mishandled project that has, by and large, flopped. When I first saw the kickstarter for the magazine in 2013, I was all excited as hell. I quickly jumped on board and obviously there were growing pains in the publication's first year that I was willing to overlook. After all, it took even EGM a while to hit its stride back in the early '90s. They'll make it up with a special edition Retro Video Game System issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) ..I guess I'll stick to flipping through my old EGMs and GameFans for my retro gaming magazine fix. Indeed. EGM from the 80's is genuine retro material with a gold stamp of approval. Not this neo-nuvo retrocrap of today. Whether it's from RVGS or any other publisher, it's all the same shit. Now, it's got to have been 30+ years since I flipped through Electronic Games! And that means it's gonna be like-new material all over again! It's been such a long time I wouldn't remember all the details. And back in the day, I had purchased every issue. Rather my parents or grandparents did. They would typically go to the store and come home with 5 or 6 crinkling paper bags of groceries, deli lunch meat, pickles, summer sausage, frozen dinners, chips, bread, all sorts of good smells and stuff. And pressed up against the inside of the bag was usually 1 or 2 pulp publications of the era; Omni, Popular Electronics, Electronic Games, Popular Science, Astronomy, Sky and Telescope, Discover, or Technology Illustrated. Sometimes there'd even be a cartridge for Intellivision or VCS in there!! They must have kept careful track of what I had because I never got duplicates. When a cart appeared I knew I'd be having a kick-ass weekend. You see, they usually went to the store on Thursdays. And that's all I could do was to think about that stuff in school on Friday. And I learned more from the magazines than I did in school. School sucked because I didn't give a rat's ass about religion and history. What 4th or 5th grade kid gets excited about invisible and dead men anyway? My mind was off in space thinking of model rockets and space colonies and videogames and science. And even writing basic programs to predict and measure how high and how fast the models would go. Or designing a mess-less exhaust system for my COX .049 powered control-line airplanes. Doubling up the batteries on pro-level RC cars. The ones with the mechanical rheostat which I later upgraded to ESC the size of 2x VCS carts. Awesome times! That's retro, folks. Not the shit they're publishing today. Edited November 25, 2015 by Keatah 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
random_dave Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 They'll make it up with a special edition Retro Video Game System issue. Now that would be a post mortem article worth a read, maybe even rivalling the Golden Axe Beast Rider postmortem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 ^ hit that 'Like This' button on Keatah's post if the voice in your head reading it to you was Jean Shepherd. Now that would be a post mortem article worth a read, maybe even rivalling the Golden Axe Beast Rider postmortem Now that I'm thinking about it, has there ever been any RVGS coverage in RETRO magazine?? I don't know, I only received 4 of the 6 issues after I backed the "Year 1" KS project but I'm not aware of any coverage. There was a little bit of coverage by the people on his TalkRETRO podcast after the campaign was pulled but it was very brief. I do know that in other podcast interviews Mike said he plans to run RVGS specific content in the magazine but it'll just be extra pages added to the regular issues. Also, for anyone still interested in RETRO magazine, I listened to their latest podcast and they're getting a new EIC, I forgot his name though. He wants to do more with the magazine's website and apparently the December issue is going to have two covers, the front and back. In the podcast he seems to have his head screwed on straight so maybe there is hope for those who are willing to give the magazine another chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 I'm not backing for a third year, Kickstarter or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bretthorror Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 They're saving the RVGS write up in the magazine to announce the top secret voice synthesis module. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdee Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 I think I've figured out how to make something like the RGVS work; although it wouldn't be what these guys are planning because it wouldn't give them the control of the cartridge distribution channel. Two things bothered me: how do you future proof your machine without updates, and how, at the same time, prevent piracy (since anything on the console would be useless once defeated). Only major constraint: you have to use the Jaguar and cartridge shells, otherwise buying the molds was a waste. My solution: put the brains (CPU/RAM/ROM) of the console in the cartridge, and keep the console body as a "dumb" connector to controllers, TV, etc. that is reused across games. Each game can be customized to its needs, and as time goes on there will be more powerful hardware that can be plugged in. Encryption can be unique to each game so a pain in the ass for any would-be pirates. The downside? Anybody could make games for a machine like that - so you better plan to make money only on selling the bodies. I was also concerned about cost, but then today I saw this: https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspberry-pi-zero/ ... that's plenty of power for any "retro" experience. Plus if you design the interface to accept raw RGB+Sync you'll have people plugging their consoles to it for HDMI upscaling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 (edited) Problem here is cost of cartridges. Too expensive to replicate an entire system in it. If you need extra processing power you can do little things like SuperFX chips or DPC+ and ARM. Sure Pie Zero is cheap. But now you've got startup times involved. Cartridges are supposed to be instant-on experiences. Edited November 26, 2015 by Keatah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdee Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 (edited) The RPi is an example; you could also put a SoC in a cart to get an instant on experience. Yes its not cheap, but these guys were planning to sell carts at $60 for some titles anyway. As a precedent many TV games (e.g Genesis/Megadrive) used to sell at ~$30; here you'd have better video and audio than those because the A/V hardware would be in the base unit. Edited November 26, 2015 by Newsdee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdee Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 If I'm not mistalen the Jaguar cart slot has 104 pins, that's enough to support JAMMA/Neogeo MVS (54 pins) plus extra buttons and two additional players. Maybe even enough to provide direct HDMi input to have digital video as an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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