Atlantis Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 This is from their facebook, under "about":The RETRO VGS is a new cartridge based video game system that will be launching following a spring Kickstarter campaign.The RETRO VGS aims to deliver gamers the best gameplay experience for this new wave of RETRO inspired games fast becoming a genre on today's mobile and modern consoles.It also serves to bring back the culture of gaming and the collectibility of owning cartridges, boxes and illustrated instruction manuals.We believe the best way to play this new wave of RETRO games is on a RETRO console with a proper classic controller, in front of a high-definition TV, with your friends and family.We have also purchased the original tooling for the Atari Jaguar and will be repurposing, rebranding and reengineering it into the RETRO VGS.Watch Facebook as we will be revealing more information here as we move closer to the launch of the RETRO VGS Kickstarter spring 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynicaster Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Jag-wires for everybody!!1!1!!1! Seriously though, I don't see myself buying one but the project is intriguing. I'll be following this to see what happens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 I hope the games on Jag cartridges that Retro VGS make, also tempt them to port some of them over to Jaguar if it could be done somehow and the games were of proper size. Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 I hope the games on Jag cartridges that Retro VGS make, also tempt them to port some of them over to Jaguar if it could be done somehow and the games were of proper size. Who knows. Frankly, I don't see that ever happening. They'll be desperate for support for their platform and probably won't have any interest (or ability to allocate resources) in supporting other platforms. Just because the cartridge and console molds are the same doesn't mean there would be any other connection with the Jaguar. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Using cartridges pretty much guarantees that any games produced we be expensive, right? And high prices for games means fewer people will buy them, no? The fewer people that buy stuff, the less support the platform will receive ... ... which suggests that this will need to have a pretty incredible system seller that isn't available anywhere else in order to get any traction at all. I'll watch with interest in seeing what happens next, but it seems more like someone wanted to build a console for themselves than for anyone else. Nothing wrong with that but I don't think its for me in its current incarnation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Using cartridges pretty much guarantees that any games produced we be expensive, right? The 3DS uses carts and the games are cheaper than PS4 games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 The 3DS uses carts and the games are cheaper than PS4 games. That's probably not a valid comparison in this case. The precedent for portable games is always to be cheaper than console games. More importantly, however, is the fact that runs of 3DS cartridges (which are not really cartridges in the classic sense) are typically, at minimum, in the hundreds of thousands, so there's considerable economies of scale. I'd be surprised if production runs for cartridges for this new platform exceeded the low thousands, if not the hundreds. In other words, I'd expect practical pricing to be in the $50 - $70 range per game if it used traditional-style cartridge form factors and components. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Technology has moved on. I doubt they will use EPROMs for these carts, that would be a huge mistake. I'd also be surprised to see traditional mask ROMs used in such low quantities. If I had to guess, I would imagine some sort of flash chip, but of course it's all speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComputerSpaceFan Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 As I asked on this similar thread..... I think it's a pretty gutsy (and slightly crazy) idea. I applaud the effort for sure but I have two questions. 1) Where will I be able to buy these cartridge games? I assume not Gamespot so is the notion that I order a game online and wait four to six weeks for delivery? (PS up here in Canada that's how long we wait for items to arrive from places like eBay so this is no exaggeration) 2) What ideas do the designers have to block the inevitable flash carts that people will make? Nintendo couldn't stop original DS flash carts, they can at least patch the 3DS to block them nowadays but the pirates aren't far behind. Will Retro VGS Everdrive carts be far behind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariBorn Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) 2) What ideas do the designers have to block the inevitable flash carts that people will make? Nintendo couldn't stop original DS flash carts, they can at least patch the 3DS to block them nowadays but the pirates aren't far behind. Will Retro VGS Everdrive carts be far behind? I don't think this will be an issue. The demographic would be fairly small. Hardcore retro fans that would go as far as buying a console, rather than emulation or just sticking to mobile retro gaming. Not to mention, the system won't be competing with modern systems. Edited April 8, 2015 by AtariBorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) Hey guys! I just wanted to address the cartridge pricing. We will be doing all manufacturing of both the consoles and cartridges here in the USA (PCB's however, will be contract manufactured and arrive to our facility as a sub assembly), under our own roof, in Southern California. Carts will be priced based on the games that are on them. For example, a new game from a fledgling indie or homebrew developer might be priced $19.99 while a popular franchise sequel might be $40-$50 depending on licensing costs mainly! And everything between. So the short answer are carts will be priced from $19.99 to $49.99. We are targeting the console to be $149.99. The retail box will include the console with four controller ports ( x 2 USB for the x 2 pack-in controllers and x 2 9-Pin ports for classic controllers), a pack-in game (possibly up to three pack-in games only for Kickstarter buyers), HDMI cable (and possibly composite and/or S-Video too) and AC Adapter. There is a small chance this might have to price out at $179.99 based on system hardware which will be a gamers and developers delight. . . . but doing all we can to try and stay at that $150 price point. More details will be revealed about system hardware and development criteria soon. Using cartridges pretty much guarantees that any games produced we be expensive, right?And high prices for games means fewer people will buy them, no?The fewer people that buy stuff, the less support the platform will receive ...... which suggests that this will need to have a pretty incredible system seller that isn't available anywhere else in order to get any traction at all.I'll watch with interest in seeing what happens next, but it seems more like someone wanted to build a console for themselves than for anyone else. Nothing wrong with that but I don't think its for me in its current incarnation. Edited April 8, 2015 by Parrothead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 There is a video at their facebook showing a demo game in actionhttps://www.facebook.com/pages/RETRO-VGS/783316545070951no save function, password it is. what do you think?To me it is a bit too basic, thought it would be a little more than 16-bit, would prefer 32- or 64- it's so much more appealing to me, than genesis again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darklight1138 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 I just started an account to talk about this new console. But... $150? Maybe even more? Games that range from $20 on up? I was thinking this console would be cheap but even then this was risky. But reading more I feel there is very, very little chance of this doing even close to ok. I hate to be so pessimistic with such limited info, but there is no denying the extreme uphill battle this will face just to get made. Even huge companies with vast resources and brand name recognition have failed hard with their consoles. Panasonic, Phillips, Atari, Sega, etc. To make things more difficult, it is very easy and cheap to get retro or retro style games in your living room or on the go. Retron, emulation, Android, marketplace games for example. That's not even mentioning wonderful, old, actual 8 to 16 bit consoles like NES, Genesis that can be gotten for cheap on Ebay or at flea markets, Craigslist, etc. The Ouya, a much more attractive, far cheaper device that does a lot more and already has a library, is pretty much a flop. I was disappointed that it didn't do well, and a little surprised. But I can see why it didn't succeed. On the other hand, I cannot see how this project would be successful even if the price were a LOT lower and it looked like it had, say, PS1 graphics. But it's apparently only 16 bit. I do wish the guys a lot of luck, and this post wasn't meant to be mean. Like I said, I saw this project just today and came here for more information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 There isn't that much of a hype around here for this thing, it seems.In the video he seem to himself question if this could work, and that's not such a good start to my ears. Pitty?Being more of a PS1 with 3d and 2d -- which I took for granted it would be -- would open up alot, but only 2d and 16-bit, guess we will see lots of simple platform games, and a complete limitation to that.I believe the kickstart will decide the fate for this project. Good luck Retro vgs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariBorn Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 To be honest, they're starting off on the right foot. Instead of spending thousands up front for tooling and patents, they're reusing existing tools and designs that already exist. They're also getting the word out and gauging interest up front. At least they'll have an idea of how many systems to produce on the first run. If that succeeds, they can always make more as the demand increases, rather than produce as many as they can, dumping all of their financial resources into base units and being forced to make up the loss with overpriced software. I could be wrong and the system could flop before it makes it out of the gate, but I hope not. I'd like to see it succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariBorn Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 I don't think it's about being a cheap alternative to bringing retro home. I think it's about giving retro gamers a tangible alternative. I mean, who wouldn't want something like Retro City Rampage on cart? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darklight1138 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) To be honest, they're starting off on the right foot. Well, creating a new 16-bit, cartridge-based system that will cost at least $150 with games that begin at the $20 mark is starting off on the wrong foot. I could go out and buy a Retron 5 that not only already has thousands of games to choose from, but actual games that I know will be good because I've played them. And it's cheaper. Not that I would because I think the Retron 5 is not a great value. On top of that, there is more and more people creating homebrew (and better!) games for these systems. Not only that, but you could buy 2, 3 or maybe even 4 actual consoles for the price of 1 of these things. I mean like a NES, Genesis, SNES, etc. Edited April 9, 2015 by darklight1138 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariBorn Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Well, creating a new 16-bit, cartridge-based system that will cost at least $150 with games that begin at the $20 mark is starting off on the wrong foot. I could go out and buy a Retron 5 that not only already has thousands of games to choose from, but actual games that I know will be good because I've played them. And it's cheaper. Not that I would because I think the Retron 5 is not a great value. On top of that, there is more and more people creating homebrew (and better!) games for these systems. Not only that, but you could buy 2, 3 or maybe even 4 actual consoles for the price of 1 of these things. I mean like a NES, Genesis, SNES, etc. I guess we'll have to wait and see. It's true that there are some awesome homebrew for the classic systems but if the Retro VGS uses a more modern platform for programming, it might be easier to pump out great retro games in less time, unlike our older systems. Just my opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) Hey Everyone. I figured I would drop in an update this thread a bit as well. To answer the question will the RETRO VGS be PC/Linux based or Android based. The answer is neither as we are going the FPGA route. My partner Steve Woita puts it best: - Steve Woita, "To answer the question: "What language will games be in? " My answer is: It depends. If a developer wants to make a Neo Geo game, they would include an HDL file that configures the FPGA to operate like a Neo Geo. The developer would code their game to run against the Neo Geo platform. This HDL code along with the actual Neo Geo game will be on the cartridge. Once that cartridge is placed in the RETRO VGS, it will become a Neo Geo and play that game. So in this case, the language is: 68000 and Z80 code. If you wanted to do a new 2600 styled game, you'd include a 2600 HDL file that configures the FPGA to replicate the logic of the original 2600 hardware and then you'd include your new 2600 game on that cartridge too. These two files are then paired up on the cartridge and when plugged into the RETRO VGS, will turn the console into a 2600. So the language that would be used in this case is: 6507 (6502 with less address space). Does that help explain things a little "bit" more?" _________________________________________________________________________________________________ Note, we aren't doing this so much for hardware emulation of older software, but more importantly, giving developers of various levels the ability to program their new games using what they are already familiar with (Atari, SNES, NES, GENESIS, etc.). In a sense we might also be able to replicate an Android system and open this up to Unity developers as well. So basically, low level, Unity, etc. could all be possible. Also, it's important to note that cartridges are the real brains behind our console. We are working on board layout, bill of materials, etc. so should have more info on this in the next few weeks. - Mike Edited April 15, 2015 by Parrothead 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Darrin9999 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I might just have to get one! sounds interesting.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Thompson Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Would be cool if someone could use the remains of the Jag2 in a way for it to work on this FPGA if I'm reading the capability of this correctly, though I find that highly unlikely to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) I can't see anyone writing a game for a given platform, and then releasing it on this where it can reach 1000th of its potential user base instead of on the intended platform itself. I think they've made the most cash they ever will off this thing selling the cases to Jagu-fans. I'd take a MiST over this any day of the week. Edited April 15, 2015 by CyranoJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) I can't see anyone writing a game for a given platform, and then releasing it on this where it can reach 1000th of its potential user base instead of on the intended platform itself. If these tech facts and claims are true, and someone develops a game for a certain platform, why not release it on both? If it's all true, Retro VCS would be like a network base for different games/platforms around 16-bit era. But if there is a market for that -- I don't know. They must give more proof for me to get on the train, than a 16-bit platform game. Innovation should not be the opposite to retro. And platform games exists 12x what we need already. An innovation would be what they've claimed above, now show us games that support that claim. Show us good future games, lets say NG-DEV:TEAM's neo geo homebrew stuff and more to that. Edited April 16, 2015 by Atlantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 If these tech facts and claims are true, and someone develops a game for a certain platform, why not release it on both? Because the only people who code for these old platforms do so out of nostalgia or a love for the hardware, and mostly not for profit. This brings neither of the former and flies in the face of the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Dangerous Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Because the only people who code for these old platforms do so out of nostalgia or a love for the hardware, and mostly not for profit. This brings neither of the former and flies in the face of the latter. Cj stop being so practical and saying things that make sense. There is no room for that on the Jaguar forum; just hopes, dreams and fumes.. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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