108 Stars Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) The bad talk about Retro VGS comes from its very delusional, unrealistic concept. A new game system is great, but you have to see that good will and actual competence and feasibility are not always matched. Maybe the guys behind it do want it to be a cool system from the bottom of their heart as a gamer, but still the critical voices whom I fully agree with do not see that their plan can work. It just makes no sense for developers or customers the way it is planned. Better talk about why we think this can not succeed now than hearing afterwards how people believed it was promising and nobody warned them. Edited September 2, 2015 by 108 Stars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Nothing wrong with a healthy case of skepticism. If you don't believe that, just PayPal me $19.95 and I'll show you why you should. I think (and could be mistaken) that some people just don't like that Jaguar parts are being used to make a console that can't even run Jag games. Pick your favorite classic hot rod body, then throw in a non-turbo 4-cyl motor and call it RetroRod. Not making it at least play Jag carts just felt wrong to me from the start, and I thought it would end up at least as a spiritual successor to 64-bit consoles. But then, that could be a little unrealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaperman Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) I think (and could be mistaken) that some people just don't like that Jaguar parts are being used to make a console that can't even run Jag games There are a couple ways to read that. One is really silly--that the critics are jag fans wanting a new jaguar. But the other way to read it isn't silly. If somebody's going to make a new, shoestring, 100%-sure-it's-going-to-fail game console--why, why, why would they ever think it would be a good idea to make it look like a jaguar? What is that going to help? Basically, unless I've missed something, the only substance this concept seems to have are 3d images. And they're images of jaguars... Not exactly a brilliant starting point. Edited September 2, 2015 by Reaperman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 There are a couple ways to read that. I actually intended it to be that Jaguar lovers may not appreciate that there's a new console out there which looks exactly like one of their favorites of yore -- even if it's a subconsciously. Basically, unless I've missed something, the only substance this concept seems to have are 3d images. And they're images of jaguars... Not exactly a brilliant starting point. I think you just summed up this thread up to the point where hardware info was released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaperman Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I think you just summed up this thread up to the point where hardware info was released. So writing some numbers on a page is substance? Looks like daydreaming to me. Where is it? If they had anything, I suspect they'd show it. They showed off the tooling for the carts, for pete's sake. I suspect the reason they have the jag tooling has more to do with having a jag-boner than the bs answer in their FAQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 The main guy, Mike Kennedy (Parrothead, here), runs RETRO magazine and some game auction website (GameGavel?). He said in one of the YouTube interviews that selling translucent Jaguar shells and cartridges paid for buying the molds and transport. So at this point, making the RVGS shells and carts has minimal cost. Yeah, there's been plenty of concern (and confusion) over that hardware list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) The main guy, Mike Kennedy (Parrothead, here), runs RETRO magazine and some game auction website (GameGavel?). He said in one of the YouTube interviews that selling translucent Jaguar shells and cartridges paid for buying the molds and transport. So at this point, making the RVGS shells and carts has minimal cost. Yeah, there's been plenty of concern (and confusion) over that hardware list. If that's true then sell a little more and pay for original molds .... or now that you're done and broke even just sell the molds to some other lunatic and use the profits to design your own shell, and drop the cart handle please. Edited September 2, 2015 by phoenixdownita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Or just keep pumping out new-and-fancy colors for the Jag? It's got to get saturated some day, though. Here's the post that has a link to the podcast and my synopsis. That synopsis sounds very different than what we're hearing today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 But the other way to read it isn't silly. If somebody's going to make a new, shoestring, 100%-sure-it's-going-to-fail game console--why, why, why would they ever think it would be a good idea to make it look like a jaguar? Failception! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Ultimately who really cares what the console and shells look like? It's not like other videogame companies haven't re-used old molds for new systems before. The hard part is going to be getting the internals right and then having those internals supported with compelling content. Its looks - which are perfectly reasonable, Jaguar connection or no - will have no appreciable effect on sales. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariTexas Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I'm all for new systems, but my money goes to strippers and booze 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draikar Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 On another forum neogaf Retro VGS posted "Hey Guys,Just wanted to drop back in and say we are boiling all the latest concern with price vs. capability down. At this point we still see tremendous value of having the first FPGA enabled console, one side effect of this is the RVGS ability to play thousands of classic and new games right out of the box -- more on that when the Kickstarter campaign launches in a couple weeks.Also, we have addressed the 20-Year game retention so please don't worry about this anymore. Details will be forthcoming in the campaign and we can assure you all these games will outlast any of us or our kids.We love all the debate about the machine as it shows we've really struck a chord in the gaming community. Trust that we will do what we can to create a console with a wide variety uses and value for the best price using top quality USA parts, manufactured right here in the USA. Carry on . . . . . . .- Mike" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Also, we have addressed the 20-Year game retention so please don't worry about this anymore. Details will be forthcoming in the campaign and we can assure you all these games will outlast any of us or our kids. Typical garbage from them. "We've addressed it...but instead of telling you in one sentence right now how we've done so, we will tell you at some point in the future." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draikar Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I wish i knew what he means by "Thousands of classics out of the box" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 ... the RVGS ability to play thousands of classic and new games right out of the box -- more on that when the Kickstarter campaign launches in a couple weeks. - Mike" Dude (Mike). You need a prototype, and need it in some reviewers' hands. If it's as wonderful as it sounds, people will pay the money. Most are complaining that it's buying an 8-game system for the price of a modern console. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) I wish i knew what he means by "Thousands of classics out of the box" ? I don't know. There was a quote way earlier in the thread by Parrothead (Mike) that one could almost read as their having converters to play other cartridges. I'll see if I can find it, but finding my own post earlier was a pain. hah Edit: Sorry, he was talking about "system replication cartridges to program"; stuff like "Amiga, Atari 800 or a C64". Were I to speculate, perhaps this is one way that might bring thousands of games. Edited September 2, 2015 by PlaysWithWolves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I don't know. There was a quote way earlier in the thread by Parrothead (Mike) that one could almost read as their having converters to play other cartridges. I'll see if I can find it, but finding my own post earlier was a pain. hah That would be the biggest advantage to using an FPGA, I suppose, in that a cartridge converter could serve the dual purpose of programming the FPGA in the console for the system in question as well as physically adapt the cartridges to fit. Now THAT would be a differentiator and something that would make a $300+ price point suddenly palatable even without any exclusive games. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 That would be the biggest advantage to using an FPGA, I suppose, in that a cartridge converter could serve the dual purpose of programming the FPGA in the console for the system in question as well as physically adapt the cartridges to fit. Now THAT would be a differentiator and something that would make a $300+ price point suddenly palatable even without any exclusive games. I agree. I did edit the previous message because I may have been mistaken. The one I found referred to "system replication cartridges" for programming, such as for the Amiga, Atari 800 and C64. Mea culpa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Also, how can they be this close to the Kickstarter and still uncertain if they're going to have an FPGA in the console? That is absolutely insane. It tells me they know nothing at all about the architecture they intend to use. For any folks new to this thread since it moved, let me summarize the Retro VGS: - It'll have an ARM chip. - It'll have an FPGA to allow the console to play other classic games. They are working with a developer on making the necessary cores. - Well, maybe there won't be an FPGA chip. They don't know yet. - It'll support RF, composite, S-Video, HDMI and RGB out. - Oh wait, maybe it won't support all those video formats. They haven't decided yet. - It might have a JAMMA connector so it can be used in an arcade cab. - They've figured out which type of storage to use for the carts. In an effort to instill confidence in potential backers, they will tell us that later. - There will be plenty of limited edition console shell colors. - There will be plenty of limited edition cart colors. - It'll be $150. - Wait, no, it'll be $350. - Wait, no maybe one will be $299 and one will be $399. - They're not sure what the price will be. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draikar Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 He replied but it is kinda cryptic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) He replied but it is kinda cryptic... Cryptic, indeed, but at this point that's kind of his modus operandi (for better or worse). http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=177369515&postcount=1033 The beauty of RVGS is its ability to play classics from your gaming collection and new homebrew games for these old systems without necessarily having to play them with a "RETRO VGS" cartridge. This is all a by-product of having the FPGA inside RVGS. There are also lots of other uses for this and those will be revealed in the campaign as well. Removing the FPGA would seriously make this product much more un-cool. In addition, RVGS will play a wide variety of games coming from some of the best Indie developers around the world and hopefully one day, even new games from the big publishers and developers. We will have a couple more significant game announcements revealed right before or on the campaign page when it lights up. - Mike Edited September 2, 2015 by PlaysWithWolves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaperman Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) See guys, the truth of it is, this project's hitting a little close to home for me. I've been preparing to launch my own retro-themed game machine project on indiegogo, and I guess I've just become a bit jealous of how well put together this whole idea is. I don't mean to take over other people's threads promoting my own projects, but I will mention that my 'Handibox' is a 1.9ghz tegra-based handheld device. It features a 4" 1080p screen, and an 8-way d-pad. It'll run the same indie games that the rest of your devices will--but a little worse. I will need at least $3m to get it off the ground, but if I get $5m, I've got a stretch goal to include a multi-gigawatt flux-capacitor which will literally transport users back to the 80's. We've got just a few technical issues left relating to time travel and its impact on battery life, so we'd need another $2m for that. The thing is that I wanted to save $0.45 on manufacturing each case, so I may have reused some old designs, but I don't think anybody will notice. It could even bring back some fond memories. Edited September 2, 2015 by Reaperman 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I have no clue what's coming in 14 days... will info be steps in the backing system?I guess all the tech stuff they have spread in ideas, will be these backing steps - and if only 7K they'll go for the lowest crap, and if people back them good they'll get the stuff the backing step resulted in with more advanced tech under the fume hood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Guys, We have been boiling down all the discussions on a variety of forums and on Facebook and taking a hard look at our cost, price vs. capability. Originally, over a year ago this was going to be a system based largely around the architecture of the Beaglebone Black. At this time we had discussed pricing in the $150-$180 range. Soon after this, Steve Woita decided we need to do something that's not been done before and make a consumer product that is FPGA enabled as this would give immediate development paths to a wide variety of home brew game developers who could continue making games like they know how, for the systems they are familiar with and have a no-cost port of those games onto RVGS. Hopefully, bringing these games to a bigger audience allowing them to make more money so they can keep making more games. I hope none of you can argue about that Next, since we don't want the success of RVGS to lie only in the hands of smaller homebrew game developers who are making incredible retro games for the classic systems, we wanted to make RVGS capable of playing the best of today's retro inspired games coming from a great group of Indie developers around the world. And just because these games look RETRO, they are in fact, quite large, many in the 1-2GB range. So we have had to take considerable time and effort to design a system that will play a wide variety of games coming from a wide variety of developers using a variety of oldschool to newschool programing techniques and using today's mostly inefficient game making suites like Unity and Game Maker. RVGS will also have its own native core and tool chain that developers can work with as well. This is something still being worked on and SDKs will be available soon after the campaign ends. The bottom line is RVGS will have more than enough ways for devs to bring their games onto the system. That has always been the goal of my hardware team who by the way have been designing video gaming hardware and/or software for their entire careers. And the barrier's to entry are free as every RVGS system will be a dev console right out of the box. We have addressed the flash issue and will be able to use masked roms up to a max game size of around 128 MB which will cover lots of ground. But, for games larger than that we have been working on other higher capacity storage options that will make our games last a lifetime. But its been extremely challenging working with today's technology which is largely becoming more and more disposable. Believe me we have looked at every option there is and worked with the largest electronics distributors and Flash manufactures directly to determine the best options available for our long term storage needs. As far as whether or not we are leaving the FGPA inside RVGS. The answer is YES. Removing this part of our hardware will significantly reduce the value and capability of this machine. We have yet to announce, but will have a variety of inexpensive cartridge adapters that will allow you to play your original games (and using your original classic gaming controllers) from your collections in RVGS using only the highest quality, read that lots of GOLD, cartridge connectors made here in Southern California. You won't have to worry about sticking in your prized copy of Air Raid into the RVGS cartridge slot. AND RVGS will be a great system to play all the existing newer and upcoming homebrew titles for Atari 2600, Intellivision, Colecovision and NES (possible 16-bit consoles in the future, however, no reliable cores for these have been made yet). This is all a by-product of having an FPGA enabled system. Imagine plugging in a USB keyboard and programming and saving your programs like this was an Amiga computer? This will all be possible with RVGS and its FPGA component. Not to mention this FPGA will be used by game developers to do things never seen before in a video game. As they become more and more familiar with what we are providing them, you will see games here that you won't see anywhere else. We are making a product for the ages and one that will have loads of value straight from the box. RVGS will be made right here in Southern California with only the highest quality parts on the market. Give us the time to prove what this will do and I am sure eventually, all of you will want to have this sitting beside your favorite game cartridge based consoles from yesterday. Regardless of what you all might think, we have spent tons of money, time and effort getting to this point. Carry on . . . . . . . - Mike Edited September 2, 2015 by Parrothead 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draikar Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Like that new retro game cuphead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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