Greg2600 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Whats Indiegogo, thats the kick starer they will use I just seen ???? Indiegogo I think is cheaper on fees, but the big difference is that it allows the fund to be collected even if the goal is not met. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickcris Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) Maybe to ship that site a bunch of units via freight? Nevermind, bad reading comprehension. probably for international orders in Europe. I skimmed over the part about their website also taking orders. Edited September 17, 2015 by mickcris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Idiots. Should have just postponed until they had a working prototype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Indiegogo I think is cheaper on fees, but the big difference is that it allows the fund to be collected even if the goal is not met. I suspect that very reason and no prototype requirement are the key motivators here. As much as I may like certain individuals involved, those motivations don't give me any confidence in the product. I'm sure they'll do everything they can to deliver, but if there's still no final prototype (and what we've seen, target specifications are still a moving target), I don't see mid-2016 as realistic. If this does actually come out, I can see it slipping to 2017. That's a long way out and a lot can change in that time. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickcris Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) Are you able to tell what type of funding they chose on the page when it goes live? If they choose flexible, be very careful if you fund it. https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/articles/205138007-Funding-Can-I-Keep-My-Money- Funding: Can I Keep My Money? Indiegogo is the only crowdfunding platform where you have the option to keep all your funds even when your campaign does not reach its goal. Flexible Funding: Keep Your Money No Matter What Choose flexible funding if any amount of money will help you reach your campaign objective and you’ll still be able to fulfill your perks. Flexible funding is suitable for almost all the campaigns on Indiegogo. With flexible funding, you keep all funds, even if you do not meet your goal! Fixed Funding: Keep Your Money Only If You Meet Your Goal If flexible funding doesn’t seem right for you and you have a strict go/no-go threshold, you can run a fixed funding campaign instead. With a fixed funding campaign, you only keep the funds you raise if you meet your funding goal. If your campaign does not meet its goal by its deadline, all contributions will be refunded back to the contributors by Indiegogo within 3-5 business days. Choose fixed funding only if your campaign objective requires a minimum amount of money to be accomplished, and if you cannot fulfill your perks without raising the full goal amount. Choose your funding structure wisely, as it cannot be changed once you launch your campaign. Edited September 17, 2015 by mickcris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draikar Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 They can make a prototype, the parts are kinda the same in the Mist and FPGA bare boards. They said they could make it cheep at $300 but they are selling 500 of them at $299... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Are you able to tell what type of funding they chose on the page when it goes live? If they choose flexible, be very careful if you fund it. https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/articles/205138007-Funding-Can-I-Keep-My-Money- Funding: Can I Keep My Money? Indiegogo is the only crowdfunding platform where you have the option to keep all your funds even when your campaign does not reach its goal. Flexible Funding: Keep Your Money No Matter What Choose flexible funding if any amount of money will help you reach your campaign objective and you’ll still be able to fulfill your perks. Flexible funding is suitable for almost all the campaigns on Indiegogo. With flexible funding, you keep all funds, even if you do not meet your goal! Fixed Funding: Keep Your Money Only If You Meet Your Goal If flexible funding doesn’t seem right for you and you have a strict go/no-go threshold, you can run a fixed funding campaign instead. With a fixed funding campaign, you only keep the funds you raise if you meet your funding goal. If your campaign does not meet its goal by its deadline, all contributions will be refunded back to the contributors by Indiegogo within 3-5 business days. Choose fixed funding only if your campaign objective requires a minimum amount of money to be accomplished, and if you cannot fulfill your perks without raising the full goal amount. Choose your funding structure wisely, as it cannot be changed once you launch your campaign. Yes, it's clearly stated what type of funding is chosen when a campaign is live on Indiegogo. Unless proven otherwise, I'm thinking it's going to be of the "Flexible Funding: Keep Your Money No Matter What" variety. For what it's worth, believe it or not, there are also fewer safeguards for funders on Indiegogo than Kickstarter. I can only assume that the relative rush to get to crowd funding in their current state is due to dwindling resources and time running out to keep the thing moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Keep my money, even if the goal is not met? Really? Like Bill mentioned, I dont think they are out to rip people off but this is kind of how I feel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGQuarterly Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 NG:Dev used Indiegogo instead of KickStarter when trying to port Gunlord to the 3DS, and they got about 1/10th of what they asked for, if memory serves. Indiegogo is a distant second to KickStarter, from what I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Indiegogo... oh my... Given the supposed FPGA/ARM nature of this project you think they'd have just long ago purchased an OTS component set and added some wires and one of their cores - and voila! prototype! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg2600 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Keep my money, even if the goal is not met? Really? Like Bill mentioned, I dont think they are out to rip people off but this is kind of how I feel There's no difference to Kickstarter in that regard. KS doesn't go back and take money back from a funded project, even if the project doesn't deliver the end result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 There's no difference to Kickstarter in that regard. KS doesn't go back and take money back from a funded project, even if the project doesn't deliver the end result. I think he meant if the monetary goal was not met. Kickstarter only takes your money if the $$$$ goal is met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I think he meant if the monetary goal was not met. Kickstarter only takes your money if the $$$$ goal is met. Exactly, that's the key difference. With Kickstarter, you're supposed to make a reasonable assessment of the monetary goal you have to hit (less Kickstarter and payment processing fees of course). That's one of the safeguards in that if you hit the goal you yourself targeted, then you should almost certainly be able to deliver as promised. With Indiegogo, while it has that model as an option, there's the murky second option that allows those requesting money to keep any money paid to them (and to be sure, MANY campaigns choose that option for obvious reasons). In other words, if the goal is $3 million, and they only receive $250,000, they still keep the $250,000 even though they're unlikely to be able to do much of anything with that. Like I said, if they do indeed go that route (and why wouldn't they if they're doing Indiegogo?), then there must surely be pressing financial reasons to go for it in their present state, which is yet another reason to give financial support pause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 That's what I meant. Just didn't know Indiegogo had those 'features' since I've never supported anything there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 That's what I meant. Just didn't know Indiegogo had those 'features' since I've never supported anything there. Although my funding activity has waned in the past 12 months or so (and will likely stay that way), I've supported 53 products across three funding sites to date. Fundandle for the 3-D Vision, which I'll likely never see (definitely a scam), Indiegogo for the Mikme, Gamester81: The Videogame, Mountek phone mount, myBall, and Grimoire Forever. The rest of the 53 are all Kickstarter items. I'm still waiting on two of the Indiegogo items (Mikme and the final version of Grimoire) and about a dozen on Kickstarter (one of which, the Writerase, I know I'll never receive, and some that I'm waiting for final software releases rather than just betas). Needless to say, with that kind of prior activity and exposure to a wide range of offerings, I've grown rather more cautious with what I will and won't support these days. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Needless to say, with that kind of prior activity and exposure to a wide range of offerings, I've grown rather more cautious with what I will and won't support these days. Same here, not nearly as much as I used to. In the early days it was pretty hard to track stuff and the updates you got were so numerous and coming from so many projects....it was very difficult keeping track of things. Right now I'm only down to a half dozen or so I'm waiting on mostly books and things that are less of a risk with quick turnaround. A few of the projects I pledged for that I had a really good experience with were the people that made Giana Sisters, Crayon Chronicles and Boothill Heroes. They gave few but very accurate updates and the projects were done quickly and on time..... and more importantly they kept tabs on you giving you free download codes for other systems, free add-ons etc. after a year or two when the game got funded. Very nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I wonder what is their next move: 1) justify why they are not on KS, but then promise not to keep your money 2) delay and produce a proto and really use Fixed options (so they won't keep your money) 3) none of the above, claim they have been hacked and reset expectations with a new date ... 4) add back the SVideo they promised 5) remove the porcupine dust flap 6) remove the porcupine exp connector 7) screw the porcupine ...yeah I have a problem with the porcupine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickcris Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 He posted his justification here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=179171474&postcount=1145 seems like he abandoned trying to justify it here in this thread. also seems to say its going to be fixed funding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) He posted his justification here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=179171474&postcount=1145 seems like he abandoned trying to justify it here in this thread. also seems to say its going to be fixed funding. And it sounds like there's no working prototype. I guess we'll find out for certain on Saturday or Sunday. Information is like: Edited September 17, 2015 by PlaysWithWolves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) Here it comes from that post: " Next, Indiegogo also offers a Fixed Funding option which works just like Kickstarter. We don't get the money unless we reach our minimum goal. So please don't immediately jump to conclusions without learning more about that venue Guys, we have dedicated over a year getting to the point we are today. Everything is in place to prepare us for the more costly prototyping phase. I have confidence in my team who have a career in software/hardware development to deliver in spades and ship this product within a years time. So just check out our campaign when it goes live and make your decisions based on all the final information. We will be bringing our backers on the front lines of console development, from the extensive prototyping to production and everything in between via weekly updates and videos." 2 issues: the fact the Indiegogo offers Fixed Funding options does not mean they will be using that.... see the verbiage, they are not saying explicitly they will be using it. the second part that states "more costly prototyping phase" ..... so really they have no prototype at this point and they want you to fund that as well. He has confidence in his team, good but the number of teams that delay, are late, don't deliver is thru the roof so why don't you pay for the prototyping yourself, it can't be more than say 10K ... you surely can back that out for your own idea, people, dream!!! No? Edited September 17, 2015 by phoenixdownita 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickcris Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) definitely no prototype: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=179174456&postcount=1151 "There is a lot of work and expense to prototype a consumer product and to do it right. Our team is confident that the architecture and circuit design they have spent almost a year on will work as planned. We have been fortunate to already have the shell and cartridge prototypes and controller prototypes all in hand and that is a large part of this venture. We have established relationships with the largest electronics distributors in the country and have a local contract PCBA manufacturer ready and waiting to start producing. The prototyping of the console electronics itself will come together soon after we are funded." Edited September 17, 2015 by mickcris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 The fact that the shell and the carts are a big part of it makes we very very .... skeptical !!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=179179472&postcount=1165 It gets better: "We've considered outside funding but believe that what we are doing is so far off left field, compared to where the industry is heading, that no investor will be on board unless they see there is some demand for a cartridge based system." So they tried and nobody thought the cart gimmick per se was a system seller, which it isn't per se. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 defiantly no prototype Quoted for truth. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 defiantly no prototype: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=179174456&postcount=1151 "There is a lot of work and expense to prototype a consumer product and to do it right. Our team is confident that the architecture and circuit design they have spent almost a year on will work as planned. We have been fortunate to already have the shell and cartridge prototypes and controller prototypes all in hand and that is a large part of this venture. We have established relationships with the largest electronics distributors in the country and have a local contract PCBA manufacturer ready and waiting to start producing. The prototyping of the console electronics itself will come together soon after we are funded." Maybe they need a 3D printer, or possibly some paper-glue to make a multi-layer board 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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