How has this not been posted yet? Retro VGS

[jaybird3rd]

Although not unreasonable I don't get why they would be necessary either. They claim HDMI, that's digital so no need, they claim Composite so that can go straight to any TV they have, the BS about SVideo and Component via Sega 32X cable we ignore [there are no such cables anyway], and we're left with RGB and that you better test against real RGB monitors not an upscaler to VGA. So again why would this project actually need them is a little baffling albeit not inconceivable given the rest of the approach.

That was my reaction, too. The RGB/VGA boards are sitting on their "workbench", not covered up by anything (as they might be if they were a "leftover" from an earlier stage of the project), and one of them even has wires plugged into it, so they're obviously being used for something. I just can't imagine what, if their "prototype" produces the outputs that they claim it does (and assuming it isn't really a PC hiding somewhere off-camera).

[sh3-rg]

Having the games on cartridge and the collectible aspect is really a big part of the vgs, plus it's not a shitty emulator with a rapsberry pi but a real console, something built and designed to play games specially made for it.

 

That's what I think a lot of fans of the concept are interested in - collectables.

 

As for "something built and designed to play games specially made for it" - that's not been the case for a long time. RVGS is aiming to bring you modern indie pixelated retro-looking games on cart ported from versions on steam etc. GAF post (linking this thread throughout, lol) shows the timeline of how it was once more like what you think it aims to be, but how that got left behind for something else.

Edited September 26, 2015 by sh3-rg

[Thierry Henry]

*french newbie incoming*

 

 

Am I the only one who believe that the retro vgs is an amazing project?

I have absolutely no idea why, but there are a few of you out there. So I guess at least take comfort in that.

[similar]

 

As for "something built and designed to play games specially made for it" - that's not been the case for a long time. RVGS is aiming to bring you modern indie pixelated retro-looking games on cart instead of steam etc. GAF post (linking this thread throughout, lol) shows the timeline of how it was once more like what you think it aims to be, but how that got left behind for something else.

 

 

That's the bad news, just wait and see if exclusive games like tiny knight will become common on the system... If it raise enough money, which it won't

[+madman]

That's the bad news, just wait and see if exclusive games like tiny knight will become common on the system... If it raise enough money, which it won't

Remind us again why you think it's an amazing system? I'm completely confused by your posts. You went from "it's amazing" to "it won't get funded."

[Reaperman]

Hey, I hear ford is coming out with this new car.

 

They won't tell you much about it, but it costs $60,000, comes out a few years from now, and will probably look like a Pinto.

 

They want you to buy it years in advance, sight unseen, with no test drive--and if enough people buy one, they'll throw an electric motor in it. Oh, and it's not from 'Ford' ford...it's from michael ford, son of the actor Glenn Ford, who has never made a car before. He did make a pretty good blog site this one time, so there is that.

 

Here are some pictures of pintos in various colors and a random stack of brand new tires that may or may not even fit it.

Here's a random pile of bits in the shape of a pinto that they'd like you to believe is a prototype, but for legal reasons can't refer to it as that. It beats their last pre-production image, which may or may not have been doodled on the back of a napkin. They're totally halfway done with this thing:

Edited September 26, 2015 by Reaperman

[similar]

I find it amazing, but I'm also convinced that it will be a failure, it's expensive and made for a very little amount of people. It's a good idea but at this price and with communication issues they'll never make it, it's sad but that's the game

[Chuck D. Head]

 

Listening right now. I didn't realize that the title of Chuck's game was referencing something. I thought he was just being goofy.

 

Oh, there is usually some snark behind my goofiness. I just try not to make it too obvious.

[kevtris]

Replying here 'cause I don't want to be a victim of facebook's revisionist history via deletion...

 

 

Adam Ray Pat and Ian are misinformed and Atari Age members appear to be extremely biased.

The Kevtris guy did not "leave" the project as many would have you believe. If you read the Atari Age threads thoroughly you will see that the Retro VGS team had to cut relations with Kevtris and essentially fire him because he tried to undermine them and muster support for his own product line similar to theirs. He also misrepresented their intentions and reasoning with the price increase from the 150-180 range now to 300-350.

Ultimately he was a loose cannon that jeopardize the success and integrity of the project so they let him go. Unfortunately you see people who don't have all the facts spreading ill will toward this project. No offense to Pat and Ian but they simply don't hold the best interests of us retro gamers at heart.

 

I think it's fairly difficult to be informed if no one from the RVGS crew is giving us any real clear information. The latest video from John had him going into detail about the bench supply and stuff.... and zero at all on the actual hardware that matters. "Look over here! Don't look behind the curtain!". If I am going to show off a prototype, I show off the prototype and don't cover it up with a textured translucent plastic case to blur out and hide what the hardware is. He might as well just have shoved it into a shoebox with wires coming out of it and a hole so the blinkenlites can shine through instead.

 

When I was in talks with them, I was mostly in the dark too. Thinking back on it, I'm fairly sure I was "let go" months ago when I started talking about how much I wanted for the cores I had finished already. Guess I shouldn't have asked for any kind of payback on the thousands of hours of time and the money I put into prototyping and developing them. I certainly wasn't going to work for free on the project "until it got funded", or take a lot of time to target my cores to their platform. I figured out before the IGG started I was "let go" when Mike told me they probably weren't going to even have an FPGA on it after all.

 

As far as I recall I didn't misrepresent anything about the price increase. I knew from day one that for the hardware they wanted to add to the board it was going to be extremely expensive.

 

"loose cannon". lol. Guess that's what you call someone that doesn't want to work for free and tried to cost-shave the BOM. got it.

 

Moving along. I think Bunnyboy hit the nail on the head by identifying the CPLD/FPGA board that is under the Jag Curtain. For those that missed it, the link's here:

 

http://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/ispmach-evaluation-board/33074

 

Everything on the board matches from the silk screen to the chip locations and the holes for the headers. I'm pretty sure this is the green board.

 

If this is their "FPGA" it's no wonder it can't run my cores. This is simply a 256 macrocell CPLD. A CPLD is kind of like a "baby" FPGA. 256 macrocells is big enough to emulate an NES cartridge mapper, but you'd need 4 or 5 of these at least to emulate a 6502 CPU, and even more to do an entire videogame system. I am not sure why you would need a chip like this in the first place, except for "glue logic" and similar to tie stuff together.

 

The FPGA I have been developing on has 25 thousand logic elements (roughly equivalent to a macrocell), and the one on my new design has 49000. Only 100 to 200 times bigger than that CPLD.

[PlaysWithWolves]

similar,

 

I think my interest in RVGS was more nostalgia-fueled than concern over the handful of favorite games I've lost to Windows or Xbox changes over the years. In fact, I also can't even remember what happened to my NES games that I loved playing way-back-when. So maybe I can call that "even". I've lost PC games and cartridge ones.

 

A console like RVGS should take into account modern-day needs, like DLC and bug fixes. I'm glad that lately Kennedy has been at least admitting that bugs get through and not just declaring that cartridges were/are bug-free. It's almost like the "misinformed" and "haters" actually knew something!

 

Now, after I misread a Kennedy (username Parrothead, here) quote, thinking he was implying converter cartridges -- and then he announced they were keeping FPGA for the specific reason of converter cartridges -- well, I actually was kind of excited. I was tempted to go through lists of old games and see if I liked any enough on various systems to buy them. But, that temptation left me once the actual IndieGoGo came out. No specifics, no money for them. And besides, I really want a snowblower for just a little bit more.

[StopDrop&Retro]

 

Hey, I hear ford is coming out with this new car.

 

They won't tell you much about it, but it costs $60,000, comes out a few years from now, and will probably look like a Pinto.

 

They want you to buy it years in advance, sight unseen, with no test drive--and if enough people buy one, they'll throw an electric motor in it. Oh, and it's not from 'Ford' ford...it's from michael ford, son of the actor Glenn Ford, who has never made a car before. He did make a pretty good blog site this one time, so there is that.

 

 

Sounds like a swell idea. I'm so glad they saved millions in manufacturing costs by just reusing the Pinto manufacturing dies. That must be how they're able to deliver it to us at such a competitive price. But about the name, could they rename it Pinto: Model T, that way it has a nice connection to the past in name as well? Also, will it only use leaded gas? And have you considered patenting the fuel filler cap?

[sh3-rg]

2 massive console+gamers backers in last 20 minutes - over $1200!

 

[PlaysWithWolves]

OMG, it's a REVOLUTION.

 

 

2 massive console+gamers backers in last 20 minutes - over $1200!

 

[jaybird3rd]

OMG, it's a REVOLUTION.

Heh ... they're still $166 down from where they started this morning.

 

(EDIT: Okay, as of about 6:00 PM CST, they're finally back in the black for the day, $188 ahead of where they started this morning. By my calculations, that's still $2,472 away from their peak at the start of Day 6, and $12,892 away from finally bringing their cumulative total above 3% of their minimum goal.)

[+5-11under]

Dear Mike and team,

 

Please consider following these steps. I'm sure there are plenty more steps that could be added or more things to consider, but anyway...

 

1. Cancel the crowdunding campaign. It is becoming more laughable as time goes on, and nothing you do in the short term will fix this.

2. Sell some Jaguar shells, and some cheaper cartridge shells. Stop here or continue to step 3.

3. Meet for 2 full days with the whole team to discuss the following:

3a. What went wrong so far. Don't blame anyone but yourselves. Many of us want to buy this, but can't in good conscience.

3b. Realize that people are interested in a new console. There are 100 pages of proof right here. If we didn't care, most of us wouldn't post.

3c. Come up with a viable console based on the following:

3c1. Don't assume that 6000 people will want your console, no matter how awesome it is, or no matter how awesome you think it is.

3c2. Assume that 600 people will want your console, assuming it's great.

3c3. Don't assume people will want to pay $300 for a base model.

3c4. Assume that people will pay $180 for your console. They don't need a controller. They have one already, or can purchase them separately from you or eBay.

3c5. Get to the essence of what you want the console to do, and to be. Have a vision, but make sure it's viable and realistic.

3c6. Think about coming up with a way that existing games could be played on this. You may be able to leverage existing homebrews for that as pack-in games.

3c7. The games are the most important thing. It'd be great if there were a handful of games that many people haven't played yet that were included in or with the console. You might be able to raise the overall price a little bit at the same time.

4. Wait a week or two, then meet again for at least one day. Basically repeat step 3, refining the console.

5. Enlist the help of several critics who were interested in the RetroVGS but were jaded later on. Refine the console. Grow the circle more, to a "final" version.

6a. Make 1 console, at least 95% complete, or ideally 100%. Enlist the help of like-minded people if you need money to accomplish this.

6b. You are finished step 6 of 12. Now you might be 50% done. You are definitely not 50% done before this.

7. Come up with a funding plan. Seriously consider Kickstarter if you can't fund this privately through other means:

7a. Come up with a "pitch". Enlist the help of people who do this for a living. Read a book. Study. In a word, the IGG campaign page basically sucks. Do better.

7b. There are plenty of other campaign tips to help you. Once again, seek help.

7c. Make sure any communication besides posts like "thanks" is filtered through the team. No spouting nonsense.

7d. Explain the system in complete detail. Nobody wants to copy the system, so no need for patents.

7d1. Show me guts of the 1st console you made.

7d2. Tell me what parts are in it.

7d3. Tell me how to program it, and how I can make my own games for this.

7d4. Show the console playing a number of games.

7d5. Give me a reason to buy now rather than later.

7d6. Now is the time to be transparent. Before this, not so much.

8. Collect the cash. Realize the campaign is not over.

9. Make everything. Assume it will take double the time you think it will.

10. Ship these things out in short order. In 4 months. Not in 1 year.

11. Make people happy. Make sure they continue to be happy. Realize that support will need to continue.

12. Set up an order system for those who didn't buy in during the initial campaign.

 

Edit: very soon there will be more posts in this one thread than I have made here at AtariAge over the last dozen years.

Edited September 26, 2015 by 5-11under

[Lost Monkey]

John Carleson said:

For example, our “Expansion Module #1” plugs in like a regular cartridge, but it has switches at the top and a slot on the front that will accept and play game cartridges that were made for the Atari VCS (2600/2600A) or Sears Tele-Games system,

 

Any one else read this as the way an alien would try to explain the Colecovision "Expansion Module #1" to other aliens after reading about it on wikipedia?

 

 

 

...and then Atari will sue us and we will release the Gemini cartridge adaptor.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Lost Monkey

[Radfoo]

Dear Mike and team,

 

Please consider following these steps. I'm sure there are plenty more steps that could be added or more things to consider, but anyway...

 

1. Cancel the crowdunding campaign. It is becoming more laughable as time goes on, and nothing you do in the short term will fix this.

2. Sell some Jaguar shells, and some cheaper cartridge shells. Stop here or continue to step 3.

3. Meet for 2 full days with the whole team to discuss the following:

3a. What went wrong so far. Don't blame anyone but yourselves. Many of us want to buy this, but can't in good conscience.

3b. Realize that people are interested in a new console. There are 100 pages of proof right here. If we didn't care, most of us wouldn't post.

3c. Come up with a viable console based on the following:

3c1. Don't assume that 6000 people will want your console, no matter how awesome it is, or no matter how awesome you think it is.

3c2. Assume that 600 people will want your console, assuming it's great.

3c3. Don't assume people will want to pay $300 for a base model.

3c4. Assume that people will pay $180 for your console. They don't need a controller. They have one already, or can purchase them separately from you or eBay.

3c5. Get to the essence of what you want the console to do, and to be. Have a vision, but make sure it's viable and realistic.

3c6. Think about coming up with a way that existing games could be played on this. You may be able to leverage existing homebrews for that as pack-in games.

3c7. The games are the most important thing. It'd be great if there were a handful of games that many people haven't played yet that were included in or with the console. You might be able to raise the overall price a little bit at the same time.

4. Wait a week or two, then meet again for at least one day. Basically repeat step 3, refining the console.

5. Enlist the help of several critics who were interested in the RetroVGS but were jaded later on. Refine the console. Grow the circle more, to a "final" version.

6a. Make 1 console, at least 95% complete, or ideally 100%. Enlist the help of like-minded people if you need money to accomplish this.

6b. You are finished step 6 of 12. Now you might be 50% done. You are definitely not 50% done before this.

7. Come up with a funding plan. Seriously consider Kickstarter if you can't fund this privately through other means:

7a. Come up with a "pitch". Enlist the help of people who do this for a living. Read a book. Study. In a word, the IGG campaign page basically sucks. Do better.

7b. There are plenty of other campaign tips to help you. Once again, seek help.

7c. Make sure any communication besides posts like "thanks" is filtered through the team. No spouting nonsense.

7d. Explain the system in complete detail. Nobody wants to copy the system, so no need for patents.

7d1. Show me guts of the 1st console you made.

7d2. Tell me what parts are in it.

7d3. Tell me how to program it, and how I can make my own games for this.

7d4. Show the console playing a number of games.

7d5. Give me a reason to buy now rather than later.

7d6. Now is the time to be transparent. Before this, not so much.

8. Collect the cash. Realize the campaign is not over.

9. Make everything. Assume it will take double the time you think it will.

10. Ship these things out in short order. In 4 months. Not in 1 year.

11. Make people happy. Make sure they continue to be happy. Realize that support will need to continue.

12. Set up an order system for those who didn't buy in during the initial campaign.

 

Edit: very soon there will be more posts in this one thread than I have made here at AtariAge over the last dozen years.

This should have been obvious to them, hopefully they read this.

[+madman]

Any one else read this as the way an alien would try to explain the Colecovision "Expansion Module #1" to other aliens after reading about it on wikipedia?

I don't know that I'd go that far, but the first thought in my mind was, "they're basically ripping off the Colecovision's 2600 adapter, right down to the name." I assume the RVGS Expansion Module #3 will convert the RVGS into a computer.

[CGQuarterly]

Dear Mike and team,

 

Please consider following these steps. I'm sure there are plenty more steps that could be added or more things to consider, but anyway...

 

1. Cancel the crowdunding campaign. It is becoming more laughable as time goes on, and nothing you do in the short term will fix this.

2. Sell some Jaguar shells, and some cheaper cartridge shells. Stop here or continue to step 3.

3. Meet for 2 full days with the whole team to discuss the following:

3a. What went wrong so far. Don't blame anyone but yourselves. Many of us want to buy this, but can't in good conscience.

3b. Realize that people are interested in a new console. There are 100 pages of proof right here. If we didn't care, most of us wouldn't post.

3c. Come up with a viable console based on the following:

3c1. Don't assume that 6000 people will want your console, no matter how awesome it is, or no matter how awesome you think it is.

3c2. Assume that 600 people will want your console, assuming it's great.

3c3. Don't assume people will want to pay $300 for a base model.

3c4. Assume that people will pay $180 for your console. They don't need a controller. They have one already, or can purchase them separately from you or eBay.

3c5. Get to the essence of what you want the console to do, and to be. Have a vision, but make sure it's viable and realistic.

3c6. Think about coming up with a way that existing games could be played on this. You may be able to leverage existing homebrews for that as pack-in games.

3c7. The games are the most important thing. It'd be great if there were a handful of games that many people haven't played yet that were included in or with the console. You might be able to raise the overall price a little bit at the same time.

4. Wait a week or two, then meet again for at least one day. Basically repeat step 3, refining the console.

5. Enlist the help of several critics who were interested in the RetroVGS but were jaded later on. Refine the console. Grow the circle more, to a "final" version.

6a. Make 1 console, at least 95% complete, or ideally 100%. Enlist the help of like-minded people if you need money to accomplish this.

6b. You are finished step 6 of 12. Now you might be 50% done. You are definitely not 50% done before this.

7. Come up with a funding plan. Seriously consider Kickstarter if you can't fund this privately through other means:

7a. Come up with a "pitch". Enlist the help of people who do this for a living. Read a book. Study. In a word, the IGG campaign page basically sucks. Do better.

7b. There are plenty of other campaign tips to help you. Once again, seek help.

7c. Make sure any communication besides posts like "thanks" is filtered through the team. No spouting nonsense.

7d. Explain the system in complete detail. Nobody wants to copy the system, so no need for patents.

7d1. Show me guts of the 1st console you made.

7d2. Tell me what parts are in it.

7d3. Tell me how to program it, and how I can make my own games for this.

7d4. Show the console playing a number of games.

7d5. Give me a reason to buy now rather than later.

7d6. Now is the time to be transparent. Before this, not so much.

8. Collect the cash. Realize the campaign is not over.

9. Make everything. Assume it will take double the time you think it will.

10. Ship these things out in short order. In 4 months. Not in 1 year.

11. Make people happy. Make sure they continue to be happy. Realize that support will need to continue.

12. Set up an order system for those who didn't buy in during the initial campaign.

 

Edit: very soon there will be more posts in this one thread than I have made here at AtariAge over the last dozen years.

 

Best post in this thread.

[Reaperman]

Yes, this is the most active thread on atariage specifically because we're all interested in new consoles. It's a shame I only have one like to give to 5-11under's post. We all want new systems, but it genuinely feels like there's nothing to this project but a jag shell--and that sure isn't much of a selling point, at least not to me. It needs a good hard rethink, some prototyping, and if that goes well, possibly then a reboot of the crowdfunding.

 

Right now there just doesn't feel like anything to kickstart but half of a bad idea.

Reacting with negativity to the pointing out of flaws with this "project" is not helping. Write the issues down, fix some of them, and reboot.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Reaperman

[sh3-rg]

Not a bad idea, from their fb page:

 

Remember, everyone who backs our campaign will also get a FREE digital subscription to our RETRO Videogame Magazine. Check out our latest issue FREE by using promocode "RETROVGSFAN". This is cap sensitive. Enjoy and thanks for your continued support and contributions! Each few days we will issue a new promocode for one of our other back issues so you can check them all out. Don't miss out on the RETRO! http://shopreadretro.com/collections/retro/products/retro-videogame-magazine-issue-9-digital-download?variant=4166179460

Edited September 26, 2015 by sh3-rg

[Agamemnon2]

Oh boy, this train wreck... One thing I found odd about the gamester81 interview was the claim that prototypes for consumer electronics require lots of expensive compliance testing. I'd've thought that only happens later, once the specs are actually locked down and the project leaves the lab stage.

[Reaperman]

Not a bad idea, from their fb page:

 

Remember, everyone who backs our campaign will also get a FREE digital subscription to our RETRO Videogame Magazine. Check out our latest issue FREE by using promocode "RETROVGSFAN". This is cap sensitive. Enjoy and thanks for your continued support and contributions! Each few days we will issue a new promocode for one of our other back issues so you can check them all out. Don't miss out on the RETRO! http://shopreadretro.com/collections/retro/products/retro-videogame-magazine-issue-9-digital-download?variant=4166179460

Yeah, if nothing else it's more readership for the magazine. I've never read an issue of retro, so maybe I'll have to give it a shot.

 

Bad publicity is still publicity. Might as well use it.

As long as Retro stays mostly clear of the RVGS it probably won't face the negativity. It's a fully modern system, so one would expect that.

Of course, if Retro becomes the main source of the type of rvgs "info" we've seen so far, it might quickly become 'open season' on the mag as well, which would be a bit of a backfire.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Reaperman

[Emehr]

If these guys seriously want to make an impact on the current console industry (*waits for laughter to stop*), they should court modern game developers to see if there is interest in creating "16-bit" versions of modern games. That *may* draw in modern gamers just on the novelty alone: modern IPs on classic-style hardware.

 

 

Any one else read this as the way an alien would try to explain the Colecovision "Expansion Module #1" to other aliens after reading about it on wikipedia?

 

Ha! I've actually been reading it like Dr. Evil when he shows how out of touch he's been from being cryogenically frozen.

[+5-11under]

This should have been obvious to them, hopefully they read this.

 

... but apparently this is not obvious to them. I don't know why. Delusions of grandeur?