How has this not been posted yet? Retro VGS

[Andromeda Stardust]

What I want to know what are they current day jobs of the guys developing this? One of them said in an interview he wanted this to succeed so that he could give up that day job and focus on this.

Probably one that pays $40+ an hour. A posh job. Likely very flexible hours too, so they can work on side projects non-stop.

 

Or maybe they work for a certain magazine company?

http://shopreadretro.com/

[Keatah]

Looks like a quality magazine except it isn't my style with all the anime cartoons and stuff. Where's the videogames??

 

Edited September 5, 2015 by Keatah

[Andromeda Stardust]

Looks like a quality magazine except it isn't my style with all the anime cartoons and stuff. Where's the videogames??

 

Print_and_Digital_Products_for_the_Gaming_World_–_RETRO_Media_Network_-_2015-09-05_03.11.34.png

Yeah they don't cover much precrash systems. Nobody ever really does...

[Keatah]

Looks like the RVGS guys gave up on updating and discussing in this thread.

 

They just gave some information about the adapters, prices, and how they work in another forum.

 

Scratch that. Mike was just here a few days ago.

 

After reading how they are making the cartridge adapters/converters work I am quite beside myself in contemplating the problem over dinner and arriving at their same solution. That means it will work and be a good thing.

 

Don't take my haughtiness for conceit and superiority. I was correct and that is that. Ohh the hubris!!

Edited September 5, 2015 by Keatah

[Keatah]

Oh, the humanity!

 

But seriously, I don't want to crap on this project, but, uh...what's the point? New retro console hardware? What's wrong with all the existing retro consoles that have a plethora of documentation and source code available?

 

Few or no classic consoles are available brand new today. Maybe the occasional 35 year old unopened box on ebay or those cheap flashbacks.

 

If the project succeeds and I hope it does. It will be a way for me to give the gift of classic gaming to all my acquaintances, friends, and colleagues. Replete with many of the experiences we had when we were a kid, like opening a box, smelling new material, instant cartridge load. All that good stuff. So I think RVGS + emulation computer would make for a great prize in my annual tech bash¹ maybe it will be shipping by then.

 

I would not want to sic a doggy ebay console on them. And I don't have time to tediously refurb and rebuild the shit you buy on ebay. I'm busy enough archiving and preserving Apple II material as it is. I haven't even found much time to dick with Windows 10 yet.

 

While I won't be an early backer, I will get on-board when the ball is rolling and I feel confident an infrastructure is going to be built.

 

Really, though, if they are covering VCS, ColecoVision, NES and Intellivision from the get-go - that's not a bad selection. I personally would want to see Astrocade, O^2, 5200 SuperSystem, 7800, and Vectrex thrown in the mix, too. But I don't think those systems have enough following to where they'd sell enough of those adapters. They're rather secondary niche consoles. And lack of them won't be a deal breaker. Emulation can pick that up.

 

One thing though, the simulation must ABSOLUTELY MUST be good enough to handle multi-carts and flash carts like Harmony. I think at least for the VCS that will happen, because they claim to support AtariAge homebrews. And some AA homebrews are melody/harmony.

 

Hey maybe they'll give us enough development material and a generic partly finished cart where we can make our own adapters? Just a thought. Just ruminating over possibilities.

 

If one can blow those Jag fumes away, retarded to make something up like that, you're left with a cool console!

 

 

 

[1] - Annual tech bash. Exactly how it sounds. You bring your old hated malfunctioning and annoying tech products and destroy them in the most creative and violent way possible. The winners get a modern day replacement, or an old-school replacement. Or something entirely different.

 

All the resulting debris is shoveled up and hauled to the local recycling center.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Keatah

[Keatah]

How many of you want this to be a quality system constructed of quality materials that will stand the test of time?

[Keatah]

From the F.A.Q. this is wrong..

 

"If you wanted to do a new Atari 2600 styled game, you'd include a 2600 HDL file that configures the FPGA to replicate the logic of the original 2600 hardware and then you'd include your new 2600 game on that cartridge too. These two files are then paired up on the cartridge and when plugged into the RETRO VGS, will turn the console into a 2600. So the language that would be used in this case is: 6507 (6502 with less address space). Does that help explain things a little "bit" more? "

 

Why would a developer do something idiotic like that? They'd just go ahead and make a regular VCS game and publish it on a cartridge that way. Then you'd use the Adapter (which includes the HDL VCS core). Anyone buying a modern-day VCS cartridge is likely to have a VCS anyways.

 

Why limit your VCS game to RVGS? And alienate all vintage system owners? Ha!!

[Draikar]

How many of you want this to be a quality system constructed of quality materials that will stand the test of time?

 

Well I know the shell is nice, thick and sturdy. I have one of their dental replacement shells with the IMAGIN name. Anyone know if the clear shells are as good as the original jag case like the plastic and thickness, you can stand on the jaguar and not break it (not that I have done that).

[Parrothead]

This is correct. Now that we've introduced the cart adapters that will negate the need to port any "Legacy" system's new(er) games to our carts. We'll update the FAQ.

 

 

 

From the F.A.Q. this is wrong..

 

"If you wanted to do a new Atari 2600 styled game, you'd include a 2600 HDL file that configures the FPGA to replicate the logic of the original 2600 hardware and then you'd include your new 2600 game on that cartridge too. These two files are then paired up on the cartridge and when plugged into the RETRO VGS, will turn the console into a 2600. So the language that would be used in this case is: 6507 (6502 with less address space). Does that help explain things a little "bit" more? "

 

Why would a developer do something idiotic like that? They'd just go ahead and make a regular VCS game and publish it on a cartridge that way. Then you'd use the Adapter (which includes the HDL VCS core). Anyone buying a modern-day VCS cartridge is likely to have a VCS anyways.

 

Why limit your VCS game to RVGS? And alienate all vintage system owners? Ha!!

Edited September 5, 2015 by Parrothead

[Greg2600]

Looks like a quality magazine except it isn't my style with all the anime cartoons and stuff. Where's the videogames??

 

Print_and_Digital_Products_for_the_Gaming_World_–_RETRO_Media_Network_-_2015-09-05_03.11.34.png

 

It's an excellent magazine. They do cover pre-crash in their game and collecting review sections. Pre-crash has been covered to DEATH. RETRO covers the 20 years hence quite well, something I personally have yearned for some time. They also write about indie games, pinball, and have done full series retrospectives like Mortal Kombat and Metal Gear. I may not be a fan of the RVGS, but or the RETRO magazine I am a staunch supporter and will do so as long as they print it.

[Reaperman]

It might make more sense to use asics in the adapters themselves instead of an fpga in the system--now that there are going to be adapters (??). Of course then they couldn't be reprogrammed later (maybe they still won't) and there is a certain volume required there, I suppose. Assuming the system expects to be sold in volume.

 

in that way it would kind of be a base station, with most of the system guts in the adapter 'carts'--kind of like a xavixport.

The next step would be thinking of putting the original controller ports on the adapter too--which would turn the whole idea into a video scaler for proprietary clones. Doesn't make a lot of sense, but it makes more sense than it does now. I'm really not sure what this system even is anymore now that the adapters are in play. All I'm sure of is it's looks which remind me of a particularly disappointing system.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Reaperman

[glazball]

This is correct. Now that we've introduced the cart adapters that will negate the need to port any "Legacy" system's new(er) games to our carts. We'll update the FAQ.

 

 

 

 

Well I thought that was the whole point? The idea of cart adapters really bugs me. I'm 99% ready to back the RVGS, but not if the team is trying to make it backwards compatible with every "legacy" console. I can already play those on cart! And what about something like AES, or even MVS, which have giant carts? How will an adaptor work with those? (And will it give my Kizuna Encounter insertion marks? jk!)

[BydoEmpire]

I kind of like the idea - business feasibility aside - but for me what kills it is the modern controller. To me, classic games only feel right with a joystick (or Inty disc for nostalgic reasons). Just my 2c, I know there are reasons for going this route.

[Draikar]

I kind of like the idea - business feasibility aside - but for me what kills it is the modern controller. To me, classic games only feel right with a joystick (or Inty disc for nostalgic reasons). Just my 2c, I know there are reasons for going this route.

 

You can use a Atari joystick, I am going to customize one from the red fire button and orange directional paint to the Retro VCS blue color of the logo.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Draikar

[glazball]

Using classic controllers, for better or worse, is another reason I will always prefer to play my carts on original hardware. Even if the RVGS is without a doubt going to release these cart adapters, ok fine, perhaps it's just not for me - but that should be something to deal with down the line, AFTER the console is out there. Right now, they should be focusing on creating something new, with RVGS carts being the draw. Strike that, focus on showing us a working prototype!

[+Tarzilla]

This is correct. Now that we've introduced the cart adapters that will negate the need to port any "Legacy" system's new(er) games to our carts. We'll update the FAQ.

 

 

 

Except one of the things that was attractive to the programmer was having a defined manufacturing source so we didn't have to source carts shells or boxes. The attractive point to me was releasing the Intellivision or ColecoVision game, that I programmed, specifically for the VGS, released in one of your shells and boxes (as you stated in the past) so we don't have to reuse cart shells (and get them cheap due to quantity,) deal with politics, find a source for boxes etc. I could then still do a normal homebrew release for the native system if I wanted.

 

Now, that appears to be gone and I appear to be stuck where I am now, with the only option to increase my market is include a flyer in my release or advertise your product for you that says go buy a VGS Intellivision (or Coleco) connector and a VGS (instead of a flea market console for 50 bucks) This loss of synergy between your potential developers and your product is a big mistake. For my point of view as a developer, you now have 10 less games coming for your system.

[Keatah]

It might make more sense to use asics in the adapters themselves instead of an fpga in the system--now that there are going to be adapters (??). Of course then they couldn't be reprogrammed later (maybe they still won't) and there is a certain volume required there, I suppose. Assuming the system expects to be sold in volume.

 

in that way it would kind of be a base station, with most of the system guts in the adapter 'carts'--kind of like a xavixport.

The next step would be thinking of putting the original controller ports on the adapter too--which would turn the whole idea into a video scaler for proprietary clones. Doesn't make a lot of sense, but it makes more sense than it does now.

 

No. It would be more costly to do so. For the basic systems like Intellivisoin, Colecovision, VCS, and other less-powerful systems the circuitry in the main RVGS console is ready to roll. All it needs is instructions. These instructions are in the adapter in the form of a serial rom. Oftentimes they're 8-pin chips. Much much cheaper than an ASIC. And the adapter tells the console how to behave.

 

Later on, if more powerful systems are wanted, systems that the console can't handle, THEN you bring in ASICs and other support components.

 

That's the main advantage of cartridges, you can change out and add-in specialty circuitry at will. And it is certainly possible to put switches, lights, beepers, and controller ports if needed. But since the console has ports, consider utilizing those first.

 

 

I'm really not sure what this system even is anymore now that the adapters are in play. All I'm sure of is it's looks which remind me of a particularly disappointing system.

 

It appears to be a lot of things to a lot of people. If the idea of adapters confuse you - then ignore them, that won't affect how the console plays those new indie games. Did anyone start disliking the Colecovision when its "Expansion Module" #1 and #2 came out? Or how about the Intellivision - VCS adapter? Or any expansion card for any of the 8-bit computers of the era.

 

That's all a cart slot is, an expansion slot that lets you hook up more circuits.

 

 

Well I thought that was the whole point? The idea of cart adapters really bugs me. I'm 99% ready to back the RVGS, but not if the team is trying to make it backwards compatible with every "legacy" console. I can already play those on cart! And what about something like AES, or even MVS, which have giant carts? How will an adaptor work with those? (And will it give my Kizuna Encounter insertion marks? jk!)

 

Then you should still back it, because you can ignore the adapters. While adding great functionality they are not really a strain on design resources or the main console itself.

 

It's like not buying a system because they made too many controller choices. And you can't find one that fits your style. As opposed to one size fits all.

[Keatah]

Except one of the things that was attractive to the programmer was having a defined manufacturing source so we didn't have to source carts shells or boxes. The attractive point to me was releasing the Intellivision or ColecoVision game, that I programmed, specifically for the VGS, released in one of your shells and boxes (as you stated in the past) so we don't have to reuse cart shells (and get them cheap due to quantity,) deal with politics, find a source for boxes etc. I could then still do a normal homebrew release for the native system if I wanted.

 

By you doing so you eliminate all owners of genuine Intellivision consoles. Why would you want to do that?

 

ADDED: Why not include the Intellivision HDL core along with your game in the same RVGS cartridge? Surely that is doable..

Edited September 5, 2015 by Keatah

[Keatah]

Now, that appears to be gone and I appear to be stuck where I am now, with the only option to increase my market is include a flyer in my release or advertise your product for you that says go buy a VGS Intellivision (or Coleco) connector and a VGS (instead of a flea market console for 50 bucks) This loss of synergy between your potential developers and your product is a big mistake. For my point of view as a developer, you now have 10 less games coming for your system.

 

I have a feeling it would be "understood" that RVGS would need an adapter to play carts from other systems. I've never seen an adaptable slot anywhere except our on our lab equipment. Where the contacts are variable sized elastomeric contacts. And that's expensive specialty stuff.

[Reaperman]

 

It appears to be a lot of things to a lot of people. If the idea of adapters confuse you - then ignore them, that won't affect how the console plays those new indie games.

 

It's probably not wise that I ignore the system's newest and most vague feature since I find it at least slightly interesting.

Without it, this system would just be a crudbox that looks like an older crudbox, and one that only plays the games that I pick up on humble bundle for the steam trading cards. I'm "playing" one of those games right now. (meaning it's been minimized for the last couple hours so I can get the cards to sell)

 

 

Unless there is a secret 'killer app' for the system, or somesuch. Maybe if it actually comes out and a game looks interesting enough, I can bypass owning the system, and pick up the game for its tactile bits. Then I can enjoy holding it and sniffing up the NRFB goodness while I play the copy I got on steam for next to nothing. Actually, in that way I might actually someday become a supporter, in my own weird way. That hypothetical game would really have to be something, though.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Reaperman

[Draikar]

I've never seen an adaptable slot anywhere except our on our lab equipment. Where the contacts are variable sized elastomeric contacts. And that's expensive specialty stuff.

 

Shhh don't tell them, they will use it in there console !!!!

[+Tarzilla]

By you doing so you eliminate all owners of genuine Intellivision consoles. Why would you want to do that?

Nope, I argue the opposite, by adding the adapters they are doing nothing except adding RetroN 5 style support to claim a larger library. They open themselves up to the same emulation/simulation accuracy complaints the RetroN and Flashbacks get, and I have no issue with that as I won't have to buy a Retron5.

 

I am fully aware of the current size of the audience for Intellivision and ColecoVision games...Approximately 250-500. Releasing it as a VGS release title does not stop me from releasing it in traditional ways to those collectors, but I lose out on any of the benefits of being an official VGS release that will catch the people of my generation who would buy a VGS but wouldn't buy a ColecoVision from a used game store, for the same reasons they bought a FlashBack and not a readily available original console. I also expect the size of even the first wave of VGS owners to larger than the current homebrew audience and while I don't expect every VGS owner to buy my games, I do expect the number to be higher than 250 especially since it is in the best interest of VGS to publish what games are available on their style carts. Hell, I'd consider throwing in an actual Intellivision cart in the package with the VGS one.

 

ADDED: Why not include the Intellivision HDL core along with your game in the same RVGS cartridge? Surely that is doable..

 

They have not published what HDL cores are available and they have access to, just what are possible give the HDL. At this point I should be able to sign up as a developer, get the HDL's I need so I can test my existing games against it and tweak around any inaccuracies in the HDL. The adapter announcement makes it sound like they are going to rely on the adapters before dealing with HDL cores for developers to include on carts.

 

[+Tarzilla]

 

I have a feeling it would be "understood" that RVGS would need an adapter to play carts from other systems. I've never seen an adaptable slot anywhere except our on our lab equipment. Where the contacts are variable sized elastomeric contacts. And that's expensive specialty stuff.

Up until basically today, there was little or no mention of adapters (which I have no problem with) I have a problem with that announcement seems to have replaced the big selling feature for developers that caught my attention, The HDL on cart with the game, and copping out to say "just put it on the native system's cart and ask your buyers to buy our adapter"

 

Which also says to me: "make your own games, don't ask us to produce VGS style cart and box runs on demand in California like we said we would."

I'd love for the VGS team to prove me wrong.

[Shawn]

So now it's a retron as well as long as you pay even more than the price of a current gen console?

[gozar]

When this was first announced, I was interested, even at $150. I was hoping for games in the style of mid '90s games and before, like this:

 

 

Imagine what the game play could be like with the history we have of games. NES Battletoads is an example of a game with brilliant gameplay released when platformers were beginning to be old hat.

 

But now, the focus seems to be moving toward an emulation machine. An itch that is already scratched with the Raspberry Pi, modded Xbox, or computers. The cartridge adapters basically ended native development for the machine. Why would I develop for a machine where my product is going up against tens of thousands of games? It didn't save the 5200, didn't help the Colecovision, or make OS/2 a major player.

 

One idea I had:

 

Stage 1:

Put a Pi 2 in the case, wired up to 4 db9 ports on the front. Create a USB based cartridge reader for the machine, allow hot swappable carts. Use an SD slot on the front for game saves. Sell cartridge games in the store. Max of three button controller. Allow anyone to distribute games that play from the SD save game slot. Pare down a Linux based OS so you get SDL and 3D basically for free.

 

Stage 2:

(Which people aren't going to like.)

Online store for games, download to the SD card that's used for game saves. Allows for $5 games.

 

Stage 3:

Have the USB port for WIFI or NIC exposed for LAN play.

 

BOM is less than $75, which means you can reach the price point of $150. Probably a bunch of holes in this plan, but makes sense to me. :-)