+madman Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 [so Tiny Knight as well is not running on the actual hardware ... as madman once said "the plot thickens" ] Something is thick alright, but it's not the plot. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mux Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Onboard speaker + amp? So this couldn't output sound to a regular TV? Also, which cartridge format did you mimic to obtain that number of pins on the cartridge slot? I chose for an on-board speaker as most vga monitors don't have an audio in. It'd be trivial to add an audio-out though. Didn't mimic any particular cartridge format but modeled it around whatever made it easiest to route. As far as the tech is concerned, it's ancient, stemming from the early to mid 90s. Upside is that it's really easy to prototype as they still come in through-hole packages and you can pick them up on eBay for cheap. Downside is that they're significantly less powerful than current FPGA's and harder to find. -Mux 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) ... I think they should change the caption on their FAQ page about the "Kickstarter Exclusive" colors. I understand that a /s/Kickstarter/IndieGoGo on the text fixes some part of your web page, but be fuxxing thorough. Amateurs!!!!! Edited September 18, 2015 by phoenixdownita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Maybe a mass signed letter to the "RVGS Team" (pretty much just Mike and some dudes that will play along after he has the cash, which he won't) letting him know that none of us are going to buy into this bullshit would put a end to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGQuarterly Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Maybe a mass signed letter to the "RVGS Team" (pretty much just Mike and some dudes that will play along after he has the cash, which he won't) letting him know that none of us are going to buy into this bullshit would put a end to it? What fun would that be? This is the best cross-forum drama I've ever seen. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 What fun would that be? This is the best cross-forum drama I've ever seen. touche! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Maybe a mass signed letter to the "RVGS Team" (pretty much just Mike and some dudes that will play along after he has the cash, which he won't) letting him know that none of us are going to buy into this bullshit would put a end to it? I think the fact that nobody will pay $350 for 3D images and false promises with absolutely nothing to back them up will put an end to it. This is how I feel every time I see someone believe in the RVGS: 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 What fun would that be? This is the best cross-forum drama I've ever seen. I've got an idea. We can screw around with google analytics and try to convince people that Mux's board is the actual RVGS prototype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 I've got an idea. We can screw around with google analytics and try to convince people that Mux's board is the actual RVGS prototype. Nobody would believe it. Unless someone printed his board out on an inkjet, glued it to a piece of cardboard and stuck it in a Jag shell. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 He posted his justification here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=179171474&postcount=1145 seems like he abandoned trying to justify it here in this thread. also seems to say its going to be fixed funding. Anyone with an ounce of sense wouldn't bother updating here. I said it before, I'll say it again, this thread is nothing but bad press for them. AtariAge has done them no service. If I was project manager I wouldn't. Whether anyone agrees or disagrees with me - I don't really care. [..] 4) add back the SVideo they promised S-video is archaic in today's consumer world. Like it or not it's the truth. It can be useful if you're still doing the CRT and chasing after a certain look. Otherwise HDMI and Composite is the way to go. The fact that the shell and the carts are a big part of it makes we very very .... skeptical !!!! It's easy to get fixated on one aspect of a project. Happens every day and is no big deal. definitely no prototype: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=179174456&postcount=1151 "There is a lot of work and expense to prototype a consumer product and to do it right. Our team is confident that the architecture and circuit design they have spent almost a year on will work as planned. We have been fortunate to already have the shell and cartridge prototypes and controller prototypes all in hand and that is a large part of this venture. We have established relationships with the largest electronics distributors in the country and have a local contract PCBA manufacturer ready and waiting to start producing. The prototyping of the console electronics itself will come together soon after we are funded." I have proto'd far more complex devices and all for the cost of parts or a developers board. Not having a prototype after nearly 7 months of doing all that marketing gab is indeed a mistake. The first major one. All other stuff is just noise. To the typical kid buying this? The word prototype probably isn't even their vocabulary. While I'm dismayed at not seeing a prototype (at this stage) it doesn't affect my decision to purchase a unit or not. For the past 10 or 15 years now I always evaluate my purchases hands on in person. So whatever circus is happening behind the scenes doesn't really affect me. If anything, IIRC, they were showing some demo videos of games. Alternating back and forth between a console render, spinning cartridge, and some screen shots. I didn't hem and haw over if that was real or done on another system - that sort of trickery is irrelevant if you stick you So they didn't want to get a prototype made (less than $1000 for 3 or 4 in dev system style) and are going with the smaller crowd funding operation as a result of that poor decision . That rear connector isn't consumer unit friendly, unless peripherals come with super soft mittens to handle them with. The only way the rear connector can be made remotely reliable is to be sure it's deep. Still, though, with that many contact points there's bound to be one that gets bent in a consumer environment. And what about maintaining cleanliness? Replacing it in time? It's not your run of the mill DB-9 you know.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Correction. They've AtariAge done has done them themselves no service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) Without a proto they've done nothing. Might as well jump on the trainwreck of hate. Get to collect some insurance money I can put toward more emulation hardware instead of this. ADDED: Having no prototype is an insult to potential backers. Edited September 18, 2015 by Keatah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronny1031 Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 But, guys, this console's going to be mindblowing. I mean, don't you know what VGS stands for?! Vapor Ghost Spectre. Doesn't that sound awesome?! And cartridges! Holy hell! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 At least they're updating over at neogaf: "The prototyping of the console electronics itself will come together soon after we are funded." So the "kickstarter" funds are going to pay for the development of a proto? Do they really need 2 million for that? Isn't this supposed to have been further along? Again, if you know your stuff you can build something for the cost of parts or if you're an extravagant spender, a complete hardware development kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 So the "kickstarter" funds are going to pay for the development of a proto? Do they really need 2 million for that? Isn't this supposed to have been further along? Again, if you know your stuff you can build something for the cost of parts or if you're an extravagant spender, a complete hardware development kit. They've AtariAge done has done them themselves no service. Get it now... finally... ? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Get it now... finally... ? We're 49 pages in, I think that's expecting a bit too much of him. If you think that can happen you're the sort of fool who believes in the RVGS 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mux Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) I'll chime in on RVGS... What I don't understand is why, at this stage, they don't have a PCB or a prototype. If they've been beavering away you have to have SOMETHING. Block diagram, schematic, whatever.. They could easily put this to rest by just showing a PCB. One thing that worries me is that nothing has been mentioned about the tool-chain. For me that was the hardest part. I ended up creating a secondary board that connected to my PC to download data and relied on not-so-great free assemblers and what not. No debugger at all. What are developers supposed to use for RVGS? For each platform, they'd need a decent compiler / assembler / linker / debugger or they're just going not going to be able to attract devs. Period. I know there board is 100x more complex but a single screenshot or quick video of a manufactured / populated PCB and their credibility is restored, as long as it's not smoke and mirrors. my 2 cents. -Mux Edited September 18, 2015 by Mux 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 .... blah blah blah bladiblah .... S-video is archaic in today's consumer world. Like it or not it's the truth. It can be useful if you're still doing the CRT and chasing after a certain look. Otherwise HDMI and Composite is the way to go. .... more blah blah blah bladiblah .... They decided to show it off as a kool feature, not me, and they supposedly have RGB because? Once you have HDMI the rest is pretty much useless as far as video options go .... but nevermind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 We're 49 pages in, I think that's expecting a bit too much of him. If you think that can happen you're the sort of fool who believes in the RVGS I laughed so hard I think I peed myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 I'll chime in on RVGS... Bingo! Thank you from all the AA 'haters' aka realists here. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 And just because I really like to beat a dead horse ... Main page right now: Still Kickstarter and not IndieGoGo .... AMATEURS!!!! I know I know it's all petty but for people who want to be funded to the tune of 3M$ it doesn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 [..]I know there board is 100x more complex but a single screenshot or quick video of a manufactured / populated PCB and their credibility is restored, as long as it's not smoke and mirrors. my 2 cents. -Mux That isn't going to happen because they are no where near that stage. The proof of concept board is what the campaign is raising funds for. GameGavel says: "The only reason I do mention OUYA is they are really only one of a few successfully funded game console hardware campaigns. There really isn't much of a track record with consoles on any crowdfunding platform. And we are nothing like them on the hardware and business model side. But we are like them in that we need funding to prototype the product and bring it to market and have both chosen crowdfunding to do so." There is a difference between making a successfully funded campaign and a successful consumer product with a solid and growing infrastructure. It's one thing to do a campaign, another thing to deliver a product with a growing infrastructure. Do they need 2-3 million to make a first example of a working board? What are they doing with the funds other than perhaps padding their own pockets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 They decided to show it off as a kool feature, not me, and they supposedly have RGB because? Once you have HDMI the rest is pretty much useless as far as video options go .... but nevermind! RGB and S-video are not relevant in the consumer sphere. They are legacy. HDMI is the way forward. Whether you like it or not. That is what the industry says. That is what SOC & ASIC makers strongly prefer. Composite for simplicity and economy, HDMI for top-quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 What I don't understand is why, at this stage, they don't have a PCB or a prototype. If they've been beavering away you have to have SOMETHING. Block diagram, schematic, whatever.. They could easily put this to rest by just showing a PCB. That's what puzzles me, too. If they've been working on this for "nearly a year," where are the tangible results to show for it (except the plastic shells, which we all know are from preexisting molds). I'd have a hard time working steadily for a year on new hardware without having to make some sort of prototype. Even if they've been working only on "intangibles" such as software or FPGA cores, surely they would have had to test them on real hardware by now. Why not show that, or even schematics and sketches, instead of cardboard mockups and 3D renders? It didn't take anyone a year of "hard work" to come up with those. Some are making comparisons to the Ouya, which wasn't prototyped until after its fundraising campaign, implying that the RVGS is unfairly being held to a different standard. I think one difference is that the Ouya backers (I wasn't among them) had a much clearer picture of how that system could come together: they knew all about the Tegra 3, they knew all about Android, and they knew that the two already worked well together. Without underestimating the work involved, building the Ouya could be seen as "simply" a matter of assembling these known elements from reputable sources into a system. In contrast, we have the RVGS, which still doesn't have a well-defined identity after months of marketing sizzle. They can claim they did it for "transparency," but all the public flip-flopping by the people involved has left the impression that they don't know what they want or how to achieve it, however well-intentioned they may be. It isn't unreasonable for potential backers to want to see definitive proof of what the system is supposed to be, and that the people involved can successfully pull it together. For them to proceed with a fundraising campaign, without having done the due diligence of building a prototype as a proof of concept, is to ask their backers to assume all of the risk. That's a poor business proposition and contrary to what I always understood the purpose of crowdfunding to be. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 I believe they are well intentioned and given the chance they really want to do well. It's just that the "management" aspect so far has been so sub-par ... it's not even funny ... let alone that 350US$ for a 100US$ FPGA sandwiched with a RPi2 seems a little steep .... but hey if someone else funds it, 2Y from now I would consider it. That should be 1Y after they ship, keep in mind nobody gets anything until at least mid 2016 ... their words not mines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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