Lost Dragon Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Re:The Konami conversation:Shameless plug, but great example of work going nowhere despite more than a mere conversation: ' I worked on a prototype for a Next Gen Contra. Eurocom was in talks with Konami and another internal team had made an attempt at a visual style but it didn’t go anywhere, they gave me a crack at it. I threw it all away (sorry lads!) and started from scratch, focusing in on the fundamental mechanics of a run’n’gun game........ We thought it was awesome. As did the Konami producer when he came to see the demo. Sadly, we didn’t get the contract. We were gutted.' http://www.grumpyoldgamers.co.uk/index.php?/forums/topic/2358-neil-casini-interview/ Talk and indeed code that impresses Konami's own staff, does'nt mean actual games will come, sadly.... :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Well... nothing wrong with thinking big (1000 is not a small number), but the idea of forced scarcity shows they understand the collector mentality and how to exploit it at least. 1,000? Huh. I guess they'll never get to that second color then. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComputerSpaceFan Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 So I guess the fact that Ouya is dying is not a concern to the Retro VGS builders? Again I don't want to piss on anyone's parade, I just think the hobby is at a point now where only the big corporations can survive. Lots of luck to this project. I wish you well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Ouya is dead but Razer are about to begin selling their droid console very soon. Microconsoles are a different beast to what they have planned for the RVGS, digital only try-before-you-buy and emulation vs physical copy collector/hoarder servicing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 The Ouya could have succeeded. The interest was there but they botched it by having an unresponsive and cheap feeling controller, a half-baked, uninspired and laggy GUI, and not having nearly enough *good* cheap software on the thing that can't be had elsewhere already. The store consists of expensive downloads you could buy on other platforms, bedroom-developed shovelware by middle school kids that aren't even worth the price of "free", and retarded distraction apps that don't belong on a game console. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) Cart burning? You're thinking EEPROMS and all that jazz? You think the carts will amount to much more than files on a flash memory stick inside a mostly empty plastic case? There's little reason why they should, and to be cost effective they certainly should not. You're probably right. My enthusiasm was that it was going to all be done in-house for any number of cartridges, including boxes/cases, carts, manuals and labels. It may end up being a glorified flash drive, but I thought the idea of on-demand cartridge creating with box and docs was pretty cool. If the carts will continue to fit in the Jaguar, I wonder if they could set up side "all-in-one" shop to burn Jag EEPROMS for any devs who want to publish on that system? (granted, I don't know about parts availability or if there's even any demand ) Edited April 29, 2015 by PlaysWithWolves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omf Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 having an ouya personally i can see first hand what is and what is not on it. yes there is a lot of useless apps / games and arious other uselessware that cant be categorised by either a game or app like the virtual fireplace app, there are however some good games and programs floating about, especially the ability to sideload other android programs bypassing the shop is quite a good feature the os is being worked on constantly and ther is usually an update to download every couple of weeks one thing i have noticed though for a machine that was suppose to have 'all apps will have a demo mode' some software has started appearing that is not available as a demo, you just have to buy it. there's a reasonable looking tempest clone but i dont see anywhere on the screen shots that the 'web' is anything other from flat and considering it is purchase only i shant be venturing that way i have had my £99 out of it so im happy that controller isnt so bad unless you use the mouse pad, you could always plug in a xbox ontroller in the usb port, it is supported i beleive or connect a ps2 pad via bluetooth, i think thats supported as well although i have not done either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Their last post on their facebook:"It's been a busy couple weeks and we apologize for the lack of updates. Last week we had a great meeting up in the Bay with Mike Mika and his team at Other Ocean Interactive. They are helping us spearhead communications with some of the big publishers about bringing back some of their 16-Bit fan favorites. We also discussed with them about creating a "RETRO Game Maker" cartridge suite so people could easily learn to program their own games to share on cartridges with friends and family. What do you guys think about this idea?"https://www.facebook.com/pages/RETRO-VGS/783316545070951Isn't that opening up for lots of stuff, for indie developers and creating something fresh tasty enough for an own fan base??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) Hey All, I am "still" enjoying reading everyone's comments and criticism. We are really trying to be transparent about this entire process and so far, people are becoming very interested and vested in this venture which is all by design. Our Facebook page is where all the action is and where our announcements will be made - http://www.RETROVGS.com. We are still working hard on the system specs and hardware. This is no easy task and we know we can't please everyone. Our main goal is to create a console that is easy for developers of all types and sizes to make and/or port their games over to and with enough capability to allow for a variety of games to be "built" from 8-32 bit 2D to possibly even first generation style 3D games. We want to create a console and cartridges around proven technology that have a long life span - 30+ years (Steve Woita won't stop until we can guarantee 50+ years ) Needless to say, all this takes time and tons of effort. The hardware team consists of professional hardware guru's and they are all retro gamers at heart so this is all in great and very capable hands. So sit tight, speculate or criticize, whatever you want, but be patient as we continue to solidify details and make future announcements. Edited April 29, 2015 by Parrothead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) Our main goal is to create a console that is easy for developers of all types and sizes to make and/or port their games over to and with enough capability to allow for a variety of games to be "built" from 8-32 bit 2D to possibly even first generation style 3D games. If you can possibly open for 1st gen 3D games, you'll attract more people who grew up in the 90s. Just can't stand a 2D only platform. 3D gives it... well, some more dimension Giving hints is kind of giving half promises, so hope this 3D possibility will be real. EDIT: also the 32-bit "chapter" was a very interesting step, that got wwaaayyy too little exposure as only a short passus over to 64-bit, exploit 32-bit-ness lots, please! Edited April 29, 2015 by Atlantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Their last post on their facebook: "It's been a busy couple weeks and we apologize for the lack of updates. Last week we had a great meeting up in the Bay with Mike Mika and his team at Other Ocean Interactive. They are helping us spearhead communications with some of the big publishers about bringing back some of their 16-Bit fan favorites. We also discussed with them about creating a "RETRO Game Maker" cartridge suite so people could easily learn to program their own games to share on cartridges with friends and family. What do you guys think about this idea?" https://www.facebook.com/pages/RETRO-VGS/783316545070951 Isn't that opening up for lots of stuff, for indie developers and creating something fresh tasty enough for an own fan base??? So Angry Birds is "Hall of Fame" material? I voted Pacman but also Super Merry-O Bros and Tetris were a close second and third. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 If you can possibly open for 1st gen 3D games, you'll attract more people who grew up in the 90s. Just can't stand a 2D only platform. 3D gives it... well, some more dimension Giving hints is kind of giving half promises, so hope this 3D possibility will be real. EDIT: also the 32-bit "chapter" was a very interesting step, that got wwaaayyy too little exposure as only a short passus over to 64-bit, exploit 32-bit-ness lots, please! PS1 was 32-bits. So was GBA. "bits" is meaningless. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 PS1 was 32-bits. So was GBA. "bits" is meaningless. Just saying. In what way is PS1 and GBA meaningless... not to me, among lots of other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) In what way is PS1 and GBA meaningless... not to me, among lots of other. CPU "Bits" is a meaningless metric when applied to the capabilities of modern game systems. I just threw out some examples. Modern consoles run the gamut from 32-bit to 128-bit, but most are 64 now. ARM is likely still 32. I quickly threw out two examples of 32-bit systems. Neo Geo is another. In all honesty the capability of the rendering or graphics chip has more to do with a system's capabilities. VCS, NES, and TG-16 are all 8-bit 6502 architecture, but the capabilities of each system are vastly varied. A 32 bit system could be a primarily 2D sprite engine or a 3D powerhouse. Since the RVGS is FPGA based, the bits of the CPU architecture is largely irrelevant but what is important is the allocation of the FPGA to provide sufficient shemaitics to handle the memory and GPU requirements of the console. To do 3D based rendering would require a lot of RAM. I'm hoping that sufficient memory is provided within the console so that the FPGA isn't tied up emulating the RAM on a particular platform. N64 would be a problem due to the high clock speed and huge memory footprint. It remains to be seen whether simple "5th gen" 3D graphics will be doable on the RVGS due to speed and memory constraints. Also it would be interesting to see complex games programmed in discrete logic. Edited April 30, 2015 by stardust4ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) I get you point. But bits works if it explains some power in the line of systems.It's like money, its paper we believe in with value tied to other countries money value, and their population stabilazing their contrys money value (or not), it becomes pretty complex, especially from me that suckk at English...As you say 2D and 3D 32-bit, yes, I prefer both running on their Retro vg system, as I said next to using the meaningless word/phrase: 32-bit. Misunderstand me right =)Give me 32-bit 3D powerhouse for %/(&%&¤& sake! Edited April 30, 2015 by Atlantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 The hardware team consists of professional hardware guru's and they are all retro gamers at heart so this is all in great and very capable hands. I hope you have the same kinds of software people driving the specification for the hardware guys. Creating a 2D monster console that is brilliant at tiles, scrolling, parallax, sprites and scaling is entirely different to a 3D polygon pusher. You wouldn't want to end up with the bastard child of the jaguar . My three recommendations would be :- 1) Pick your CPU first and design the 2D/3D hardware around that soft core. Ideally, you'd want an ARM core because there are plenty of those programmers out in the real world. To ease 3rd party porting you are going to need a "C/C++" compiler. GCC for ARM is well supported, feature rich and mature. 2) The CPU should have a closely coupled vector processing unit that has good 32 bit floating point performance and single cycle 8/16/32 bit element performance too. 3) Do not have a unified CPU and GPU/Tile address and data bus. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I hope you have the same kinds of software people driving the specification for the hardware guys. Creating a 2D monster console that is brilliant at tiles, scrolling, parallax, sprites and scaling is entirely different to a 3D polygon pusher. You wouldn't want to end up with the bastard child of the jaguar . My three recommendations would be :- 1) Pick your CPU first and design the 2D/3D hardware around that soft core. Ideally, you'd want an ARM core because there are plenty of those programmers out in the real world. To ease 3rd party porting you are going to need a "C/C++" compiler. GCC for ARM is well supported, feature rich and mature. 2) The CPU should have a closely coupled vector processing unit that has good 32 bit floating point performance and single cycle 8/16/32 bit element performance too. 3) Do not have a unified CPU and GPU/Tile address and data bus. I dont understand all of it but can read between line: that what you say is spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I hope you have the same kinds of software people driving the specification for the hardware guys. Creating a 2D monster console that is brilliant at tiles, scrolling, parallax, sprites and scaling is entirely different to a 3D polygon pusher. You wouldn't want to end up with the bastard child of the jaguar . My three recommendations would be :- 1) Pick your CPU first and design the 2D/3D hardware around that soft core. Ideally, you'd want an ARM core because there are plenty of those programmers out in the real world. To ease 3rd party porting you are going to need a "C/C++" compiler. GCC for ARM is well supported, feature rich and mature. 2) The CPU should have a closely coupled vector processing unit that has good 32 bit floating point performance and single cycle 8/16/32 bit element performance too. 3) Do not have a unified CPU and GPU/Tile address and data bus. But the FPGA is infinitely configurable. From a programmer's perspective, this could be a blessing or a curse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 But the FPGA is infinitely configurable. From a programmer's perspective, this could be a blessing or a curse. The sort of people who can write cores for FPGAs are also not the sort of people who are inclined to write games for old consoles, and vice versa - This is a nightmare scenario for developers that seems to have had very little thought put into it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) But the FPGA is infinitely configurable. From a programmer's perspective, this could be a blessing or a curse. At "boot" time it is. By that I mean the FPGA has pulled in its configuration data from an E2PROM and can be any CPU/GPU/peripherals you want. After the FPGA has "booted" then it will not be reconfigurable at gate/fuse level. Edit: Have a look at Atmel's FPSLIC, Freescale's TPU/eTPU, or Atmel's SAM CCL for example. Edited May 1, 2015 by GroovyBee 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerosquare Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 The sort of people who can write cores for FPGAs are also not the sort of people who are inclined to write games for old consoles, and vice versa - This is a nightmare scenario for developers that seems to have had very little thought put into it.What about SCPCD? Kidding aside, I agree with you. Expecting games developers to do FPGA logic development is unrealistic. Maybe a few of them will take that as a challenge, but the vast majority will use a ready-made FPGA configuration that matches an existing console. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 What about SCPCD? SCPCD is special, and also doesn't need any help from someone else's FPGA 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 What about SCPCD? There is always an exception to every rule . Expecting games developers to do FPGA logic development is unrealistic. Maybe a few of them will take that as a challenge, but the vast majority will use a ready-made FPGA configuration that closely matches an existing console. Fixed that for ya . 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Official 3D renderings ("GAMES" will be singular in the final): 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 "GAMES" will be singular in the final LOL, no doubt 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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