triverse Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) Looks like the first mention I can find about FPGA is from the 14th of April. Still, dude was on the team if he came on in March. Edited September 20, 2015 by triverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dommie Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 After reading about all the nonsense from the RVGS team, I'm beginning to think the Jag fumes that cause insanity aren't in the plastic, but in the molds themselves. It's the casing shape - it's cursed. The structural design of the casing itself is a conduit for the netherworld, much like the highrise apartment building in Ghostbusters. Do the math! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) My point was not to pinpoint exactly what was said and done (although it is fun detective work to dribble around my [and Keatah] many posts). My point is that they are still looking like a bunch of absolute beginners in how to handle the situation they stuck themselves in. That VP could have simply stated that they decided to go for a more expensive option while maintaining the KS dates and apologize if that caused confusion ... as simple as that .... don't challenge your potential customers!!! Edited September 20, 2015 by phoenixdownita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) We won't be seeing direct Neo Geo ports any time soon since the NG uses a BIOS file. I don't think you can easily replicate that through reverse engineering, let alone doing it on an FPGA board. That means devs would be limited to "similar" hardware configurations as the Neo Geo but not capable of running Neo Geo games. Am I off on this or not? Unibios all the way http://unibios.free.fr/ EDIT: the real issue for Neogeo is to build FPGA level emu cores of all the special ASICs ... it's 6 of them I believe, the alternative is to fallback to ARM based software EMU (FinalBurn) but that didn't help the Neogeo X. Edited September 20, 2015 by phoenixdownita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Also, there's something that's been boiling in the back of my head and I wanted to ask you guys because I'm not the most well versed with open source GPL licenses and whatnot. In the Retro Gaming Roundup podcast I think it was John who said that once they get funding, making the RVGS' own bios or OS should be very quick and easy because they will be "leveraging on the open source community." But I've only heard a few mentions of their console itself being open source and usually it's in interviews with Mike and based on the context I don't think he understands what "open source" actually means and I think he believes it's a catch-all phrase for a system that's easy for developers to use. Anyways, that could be a problem because in that same podcast later on they talk about their concerns with piracy (lol, I know) and they confirm that there will be a lockout chip in the console. The point of a lockout chip is to have a closed system and control what's able to work in that system. So I would assume they're planning to use open source assets to make a closed system, which I believe would violate Tivoization laws. Which would mean they're going down the very same path as the Retron 5. I guess they could avoid this by keeping their system open source but why would you include a lockout in an open source system? If someone has the means and the will to pirate, they would easily find a way after looking at the source code, so it defeats the value of having the lockout chip in there in the first place. Am I right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) Also, there's something that's been boiling in the back of my head and I wanted to ask you guys because I'm not the most well versed with open source GPL licenses and whatnot. In the Retro Gaming Roundup podcast I think it was John who said that once they get funding, making the RVGS' own bios or OS should be very quick and easy because they will be "leveraging on the open source community." But I've only heard a few mentions of their console itself being open source and usually it's in interviews with Mike and based on the context I don't think he understands what "open source" actually means and I think he believes it's a catch-all phrase for a system that's easy for developers to use. Anyways, that could be a problem because in that same podcast later on they talk about their concerns with piracy (lol, I know) and they confirm that there will be a lockout chip in the console. The point of a lockout chip is to have a closed system and control what's able to work in that system. So I would assume they're planning to use open source assets to make a closed system, which I believe would violate Tivoization laws. Which would mean they're going down the very same path as the Retron 5. I guess they could avoid this by keeping their system open source but why would you include a lockout in an open source system? If someone has the means and the will to pirate, they would easily find a way after looking at the source code, so it defeats the value of having the lockout chip in there in the first place. Am I right? As long as they stick to GPLv2 based tools (like Linux kernel) they can do as they please as long as they don't claim they built it themselves. It's the GPLv3 that becomes eerie. MIT/BSD also is very permissive. So for them Open Source really just means they have to do nothing/minimal to come up with a bare OS/kernel and toolchains, which IMHO is a good thing given all the rest of the issues they need to solve. Edited September 20, 2015 by phoenixdownita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 It's the casing shape - it's cursed. The structural design of the casing itself is a conduit for the netherworld, much like the highrise apartment building in Ghostbusters. Do the math! The Jag mold is the keymaster, the Jag CD mold is the gatekeeper. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGQuarterly Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Unibios all the way http://unibios.free.fr/ EDIT: the real issue for Neogeo is to build FPGA level emu cores of all the special ASICs ... it's 6 of them I believe, the alternative is to fallback to ARM based software EMU (FinalBurn) but that didn't help the Neogeo X. Will Razoola be cool with someone using his UniBios in a for-profit venture? Would he get paid for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) Will Razoola be cool with someone using his UniBios in a for-profit venture? Would he get paid for that? I don't know ask him. When the MagicKey embedded his Unibios they found a commercial agreement (it was after the fact for sure but at least it is something). So I believe he would be open to consider the venture, but then again I only assisted him for a couple of hours on testing a marginal feature and that was 2Y ago or so. Edited September 20, 2015 by phoenixdownita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGQuarterly Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Thanks for the image. That's all I needed. - John That's a pretty cryptic response... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Now we are talking about UniBIOS being used in a non existing Neo Geo core for a non existent video game console? Let's discuss the feasibility of a magic gnome add-on to play NES ROB games while we're at it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmer Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) Will Razoola be cool with someone using his UniBios in a for-profit venture? Would he get paid for that? That's totally irrelevent, isn't it? UniBios is a mod of the original SNK BIOS. You can only legally use it if you already have a Neo Geo and therefore already have a license to use the SNK BIOS code. You can't start a new business that involves distributing SNK's BIOS without a licence from SNK PlayMore. And if you've got that license, then you don't need the UniBIOS enhancements in order to run your Neo Geo code. I don't know ask him. When the MagicKey embedded his Unibios they found a commercial agreement (it was after the fact for sure but at least it is something). So I believe he would be open to consider the venture, but then again I only worked with him for a couple of hours on testing a marginal feature and that was 2Y ago or so. MagicKey is a hardware enhancement for the original Neo Geo AES ... the end-user already has a license to use SNK's BIOS, and since it's only relevent to owners of a real Neo Geo, it's not worth SNK's time to crack down on the distribution. That doesn't apply if someone were to try to start a new video game console that required SNK's copyrighted BIOS ... it's a totally different situation. Now we are talking about UniBIOS being used in a non existing Neo Geo core for a non existent video game console? Let's discuss the feasibility of a magic gnome add-on to play NES ROB games while we're at it. Yep, silly, isn't it! Edited September 20, 2015 by elmer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) In case this is helpful at all: In late December, 2014, Kennedy bought the Jaguar molds. Shortly thereafter (Jan 5th), he was taking translucent shell preorders. On Jan 30th they began recruiting game developers for a console that didn't have electronics yet. In March, he brings on John Carlsen. Apr 12 discusses "hardware emulation" and "having our own core" at about the 0:11:00 mark.As of May 31st, Parrothead/Kennedy was still talking about a $150-200 console with a caveat of 'may' be more. Edited September 20, 2015 by PlaysWithWolves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGQuarterly Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Totally irrelevent. UniBios is a mod of the original SNK BIOS. You can only legally use it if you already have a Neo Geo and therefore already have a license to use the SNK BIOS code. You can't start a new business that involves distributing SNK's BIOS without a licence from SNK PlayMore. And if you've got that license, then you don't need the UniBIOS enhancements in order to run your Neo Geo code. Ah, makes total sense. That only further makes me wonder how Gunlord would be running on the RetroVGS. Is some of the IndieGoGo money going directly to NG:Dev to pre-pay them to port the game over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Ah, makes total sense. That only further makes me wonder how Gunlord would be running on the RetroVGS. Is some of the IndieGoGo money going directly to NG:Dev to pre-pay them to port the game over? My guess is it's just like the SNA3D announcement. Just an announcement with no actual plan for bringing the title to the RVGS. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triverse Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Ah, makes total sense. That only further makes me wonder how Gunlord would be running on the RetroVGS. Is some of the IndieGoGo money going directly to NG:Dev to pre-pay them to port the game over? I haven't seen any proof that any of the games is running on the RETRO VGS, let alone their most graphical, hardware demanding one so far. I would love to. I really would. That would shut a lot of people up to see Gunlord running on the RETRO VGS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Ah, makes total sense. That only further makes me wonder how Gunlord would be running on the RetroVGS. Is some of the IndieGoGo money going directly to NG:Dev to pre-pay them to port the game over? As the two previous posters put, it's kind of a moot point but it's going to be a Dreamcast or PC port. Via https://www.facebook.com/ngdevteam: NG Dev Team We have an agreement to port Gunlord DC or PC to the RVGS if it's campaign is successful. Pink Bullets DC may be available as a later option. 3 · September 16 at 9:17am 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGQuarterly Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 I didn't know that Gunlord was released for the PC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) I didn't know that Gunlord was released for the PC. Of course you didn't; it's only 14% funded. Edit: Whoops! That's an old campaign 2013, not 2015. I can't find any info on a PC version beyond that failed campaign. Edited September 20, 2015 by PlaysWithWolves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariNerd Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmer Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) Ah, makes total sense. That only further makes me wonder how Gunlord would be running on the RetroVGS. Is some of the IndieGoGo money going directly to NG:Dev to pre-pay them to port the game over? There's nothing magical about a BIOS, it's just another library of code at the end of the day. Even if Neo Geo GunLord used some of the Neo Geo BIOS functions, NG:Dev will have rewritten all that functionality themselves long ago, so that they could release their games on the Dreamcast without having having to include SNK's BIOS. My point isn't really that you need the Neo Geo BIOS in order to create a new game console ... it's that you don't need it at all if you've got developers writing new games for your platform. My guess is it's just like the SNA3D announcement. Just an announcement with no actual plan for bringing the title to the RVGS. I suspect that the discussions are real, and that NG:Dev would be quite happy to spend a week or two making a game run on the RVGS. But there wouldn't be enough money in it to spend much more time. But since the RVGS hardware is still a "moving target", then no developer (or buyer) can do more than speculate on Mike Kennedy's vague promises. I haven't seen any proof that any of the games is running on the RETRO VGS, let alone their most graphical, hardware demanding one so far. I would love to. I really would. That would shut a lot of people up to see Gunlord running on the RETRO VGS. Isn't their last hardware spec still powerful enough to run a Neo Geo emulator? Last I saw, it was a cheap Chinese ARM SoC plus the FPGA. With all the fallout in the last 24hrs, it'll probably just morph into a slightly-more-expensive Chinese ARM SoC without the FPGA. Basically a $300 version of the Raspberry PI. Edited September 20, 2015 by elmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triverse Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Where did they say what type of ARM CPU is being used? All I have seen is "powerful ARM CPU" listed. No information on exactly what one, or even what family of CPU's outside of ARM (is it an A7, A9, Rockchip, etc). In the case of NGDEVTEAM they could easily simply recompile the source code using the SDK's for Dreamcast or RETRO VGS. The problem I have is, there is nothing showing it running on the RETRO VGS. When it was announced for the DC there were pics and video of it running on a Dreamcast. The way it is being marketed right now is like the old days of SNES/Genesis/NES/Game Boy/Game Gear ports like Radical Rex. Their ads all showed the SNES version but boxes for the other platforms. Very few publishers that were on multiple platforms would show a pic of each platform's version of their game. For me, as a fan it seemed a little misleading. That is what we are dealing with here and games like Gunlord which is showing either the Neo Geo or DC version and saying that is what it will look like on the RETRO VGS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 All RVGS has done is to speculate.And then they get snippy at people for speculating LOL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) At 28h 57.5K -> 975h total -> 40 days (so 38.5 remaining) EDIT: regarding the ARM there was speculation they were waiting on a TI chip with 3D worthy of PS1 .... I know!! Edited September 20, 2015 by phoenixdownita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmer Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Where did they say what type of ARM CPU is being used? All I have seen is "powerful ARM CPU" listed. No information on exactly what one, or even what family of CPU's outside of ARM (is it an A7, A9, Rockchip, etc). They put up the "specs" back in August, and then removed them yesterday, just before the IGG campaign started. "Fast sequential processing through media processor with 32-bit ARM Cortex-A8 @ 1.2 GHz, 3-D processor, blitter, and more." http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/page-18?do=findComment&comment=3298385 Sounds like a Rockchip or AllWinner to me. Pretty poor specs for a console that's expected to run Unity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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