Jump to content
racerx

How has this not been posted yet? Retro VGS

Recommended Posts

FROM FACEBOOK COMMENTS:
Thomas Tatman
Today at 5:50am
All negativity aside, I have a very good question to ask. I know you have a former Atari developer on your team, kudos. Why haven't you made Kevtris a part of the team? You have been very sketchy on specs for a long time, but Kevtris already has everything you need. Sure you can probably find someone else to do what you need, but he has it already. His board has 2 FPGAs, and 16 cores. You have downgraded the FPGA, and basically cut him out of the project. Even before this you were treating him as a subcontractor, rather than the person responsible for the real core of the project. Sure, it may piss you off that he came out and revealed the prototypes and his personal cost to counter the huge development funding you were asking for, but all he was doing was being honest and showing us what he had made, which is all we asked you to do, but you have obviously refused over the last months. I think you should give credit where it is due, and give Kevtris a larger, more central role. His skills, labor, and contributions to the project are more important than to be treated as an outside contractor you can use or discard. If you had been honest with us about him from the start, all of our technical questions would have been answered, leading to more interest and support for this project. He has the hardware and 16 cores ready to go. Sure, without you, it's just an emulation machine with no new software, but without him all you have is computer rendered colored shells. If you would just come together, you would have something great.
Simon Daniel
Yesterday at 10:19pm
In my professional opinion you should really pull this project and rethink your strategy. To meet your target you need to take an average of $42,000 per day, and you are struggling to do 2/3rds that on a new project on a weekend which is the busiest time. My suggestions are: 1. Pull the Indiegogo project 2. Build a real test product that you can demo. 3. Add SD card slot to the system 4. Announce full specifications for the system with decent FPGA, and use only one FPGA without any financial targets for better unit. 5. Allow support for 3rd party emulation on the FPGA up-to N64 specs 6. Allow for protected digital downloads, maybe using the system Serial number to protect against piracy. 7. Re-list this project when the above is done on Kickstarter. If you do not do something soon, then this Indigogo project is going to be stillborn, and you will loose faith from a lot of loyal supporters like myself. People use Kickstarter for several reasons: 1. it is much bigger and generates more sales on it's own vs Indiegogo, 2. It's payment system is backed by Amazon. 3. Maybe the most important, is Kickstarter does not require payments to be made until the project is funded, and that gives more time for the bulk of backers to find the money to ultimately buy the system which they clearly are not doing on Indiegogo.
Nico Nillo
Most of this probably won't be necessary if Kevtris makes his own console. He's measuring public interest now:
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, let's see ... they picked up three more pledges in the last ~10 hours, but they only went from 170 to 172 backers, so maybe somebody backed out. If so, good for them. Still hovering at 3%, still with a 49% projection, and it seems likely that it will end up a lot lower than that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More facebook commentary:

 

Chris Cantrell

Sadly even a working machine won't shut up most of these people. They simple have an axe to grind. They're screaming about how the building is going to fall down while tearing apart it's foundation.

I am completely disgusted at how many people keep saying they're not interested in this system but they're still here. They keep posting the same stupid shit over and over again. They half read things and clutch anything they think is negative to wave it around completely disregarding any explanation or clarification as a 'scam' or 'lie'. Why the hell don't they go somewhere else? Oh, right, because they have a point to prove and that point is that they're hateful dipshits who think they know everything.

They won't be happy until the thing burns to the ground so they can dance around it a prove how much smarter they are and that they were right all along. All while hiding the gas cans they used to start the fire in the bushes.

If this does fail, and it most certainly might, at least we tried. What the fuck have you dipshits done? I'll be waiting for your $100 game consoles that play every game ever made. Clearly you're the only ones who are clever enough to do this correctly.
4 · 13 hrs

 

Carl Williams

Calm down man. Everyone has emotions running high over this. The difference between those bitching about the RVGS and the RVGS team is, one has made a lot of promises over the last year or so and done quite a lot to hype this launch up only to make some very quick and sudden last second changes that have most of us scratching our heads.
12 hrs

NeoGeo Gaming

Well, I am still undecided about pledging $299 + $300 on games right now. What really has me stuck is that Kevin guy over at Atari Age. He was the guy that was going to provide the system cores for the Retro VGS, and that isn't happening now. To make matters worse, that guy Kevin has built 17 (count them 17) FPGA + ARM boards that ALL function just like the Retro VGS is suppose to - and he made ALL those boards over the course of 11 years, mind you - and the Retro VGS guys cut him loose over some stupid BS?

Come on, that Kevin guy could have EASILY built them a prototype well over a year ago, and on a budget that would be less than $200 per system. He provided REAL photos of his working boards and REAL breakdowns of cost, etc. NONE of this would be going on had they given this Kevin guy a benefit of a doubt, which they are expecting us to do for this campaign. But instead, they have this OTHER tech guy that is still playing around with paper, glue and Atari Jaguar shells. How can you NOT be upset about that? I may not be an industry EXPERT, but even I know that's just…. SCREWED up.
2 · 12 hrs · Edited

Carl Williams

I am not saying I am not upset over how they handled the situation with Kevin. I am just keeping a level head about the situation. I mean, yes, Kevin created a lot of stuff that is amazing similar to the idea that these guys are going for. He also provided cost of goods, etc, including details on those items, something we are all asking for from this team. Kevin has tons of experience as he does that stuff for a living (as he stated at least once on Atari Age). Me, I would personally have been bending over backwards to get this guy at the bare minimum making the prototype hardware.

If it is a case of money then they could have sold more Jaguar shells or something to cover what he needed to produce a prototype. It has been mentioned by at least one member of this three man team that to get to this point has drained their checking account. That is wild to me. Especially considering there is precious little to show for him draining his financial situation.

Sometimes during the course of business you have to bend over backwards for a talent like Kevin, though from what I read he was not exactly making huge demands of the situation. We will never know the true story on this, just what each is saying which may or may not be really close to the truth.

If you have a guy like Kevin on board that knows his stuff like that then it would probably be a good idea to keep him around. Give him equity, cash, whatever. You can't duplicate 11 years worth of work in less than 12 months. You can try but you will fail, miserably.
2 · 11 hrs

Mark McDougall Seems to me that Chris only wants to hear opinions from those who agree with him. All other opinions are 'disgusting' and 'hateful' apparently.
A lot of people are following this project because of the promises made many months ago of a product that we were interested in. They generated the hype, and we succumbed - that's good marketing on their part.
But gradually the tide has turned because of a complete lack of hard specifications, shifting emphasis on goals, and the last minute switch to Indiegogo and the revelation that they don't even have a prototype have sent everyone over the edge.
We're not here because of spite or hatred - we're here because we've seen this dream of ours dissolve before our very eyes and turn into a complete and utter shitstorm. Of course we're upset, of course we're frustrated, of course we want to give our opinions on what went wrong and what should be done to fix it.
If you only want flowers and lollipops, then get off social media and lock yourself in your room and re-watch the Jaguar mold unboxing videos whilst singing "la la la" to yourself as you cover your ears. Then think about growing up and acknowledging that there are opinions contrary to your own that are actually valid.

 

END

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread seems to be weighted heavily in terms of just a clone system for playing ROMs but I'd be much more interested in this suggestion that kevtris floated:

 

That's what classic gaming and genuine retro gaming is all about when talked about in context of new and modern hardware. How well can it do the old stuff. The original stuff. Not this fake neo-retro bullshit that seems all the rage among marketing types. Do they actually think we like that crap?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

That's what classic gaming and genuine retro gaming is all about when talked about in context of new and modern hardware. How well can it do the old stuff. The original stuff. Not this fake neo-retro bullshit that seems all the rage among marketing types. Do they actually think we like that crap?

 

Sorry, I misposted this in the wrong thread because I'm a bit dim!

Edited by sunteam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There were more posts from Kevtris, but here's the key events. Go to Kevtris' original post for dev board pictures, which aren't embedded below. My apologies to all if this is too lengthy: Edited kevtris' post since the original has embedded pics:

Well, After seeing their IGG page, and how the FPGA is gone? or significantly reduced from their system, I can't stay silent any longer.

<SNIP -- SEE COMPLETE POST: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/page-60?do=findComment&comment=3325199 >

 

If I were kevtris I would've ended that post w "*mic drop*".

Awesome work and great input from the perspective of someone who has actually done the things the rvgs team claims they will do at some point after they get 2 million dollars.


Wow. Kevin ?!?!

First off, we were going to pay Kevin his asking price for the licensing of the cores and this was build into our funding goal ($10K/core) and had another $50K +/- in our funding budget to pay him for the 16 bit cores he has yet to develop. And these could have been shared with the community or whatever, not exclusive to us. And I could care less if Kevin used these cores to sell his board in addition to ours, he could have had both opportunities. We are selling two entirely different kinds of products. It really is amazing how everything gets turned around in these forums.

We are just three legitimate guys who want to bring a cool product to market. It's as simple as that. And set up it up as a real sustainable business that can continue to support the platform for a long time.

As of this post, I am going to chime out here as there is nothing that even remotely comes in the form of meaningful constructive criticism. And Kevin, I guess we will look elsewhere for our core development.

Edited by PlaysWithWolves

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't want to read the last 20 pages, can some one fill me in on what happened with kevtris?

Read 2 posts:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/page-60?do=findComment&comment=3325199

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/page-62?do=findComment&comment=3325354

 

Edit:

..or just read the post above... ;)

Edited by Tarzilla
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last night on Facebook I left a reply on Mike's post talking about the people who are "infesting" the project with "negativity" by reminding him that the majority of folks here at AtariAge have enthusiastically backed all of his earlier efforts (GameGavel, Retro magazine, and the Jag shells) but now, because we have the audacity to point out that this project is deeply flawed in is current state, he turns his back on us.

 

He of course deleted the comment.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just got caught up again on this thread. Kevtris post (#1679) relating some of the inside events relating to the hardware development was verrry informative. It would no doubt be interesting to hear from some of the original dev team or others who have left the project, to compare their experiences.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The RETRO VGS responses on Facebook get even more surreal ...

 

Thomas Tatman:

By calling people like Kevtris "fly by night game hobbyists" you insult the actual backbone of the entire retrogaming scene, including the Indy developers you claim to support. [+more]

 

RETRO VGS: Actually, I wasn't referring to Kevin. Just that my team aren't hobbiests who don't know what it takes to bring a consumer product to market. More power to Kevin but he will find out that there is no way to bring out a polished consumer FPGA system for less than we are. Let's wait and see what his final product is and then I'd be happy to discuss it. But until then it makes no sense to compare his bare board to our consumer polished product. Seriously,these are two completely different things.

Hahahahaha ... does this guy have absolutely no grip on the reality of how little they've actually shown people so far?

 

Where is this "consumer polished product" that he's talking about???

Edited by elmer
  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow. Kevin ?!?!

 

First off, we were going to pay Kevin his asking price for the licensing of the cores and this was build into our funding goal ($10K/core) and had another $50K +/- in our funding budget to pay him for the 16 bit cores he has yet to develop. And these could have been shared with the community or whatever, not exclusive to us. And I could care less if Kevin used these cores to sell his board in addition to ours, he could have had both opportunities. We are selling two entirely different kinds of products. It really is amazing how everything gets turned around in these forums.

 

We are just three legitimate guys who want to bring a cool product to market. It's as simple as that. And set up it up as a real sustainable business that can continue to support the platform for a long time.

 

As of this post, I am going to chime out here as there is nothing that even remotely comes in the form of meaningful constructive criticism. And Kevin, I guess we will look elsewhere for our core development.

 

You're asking for money for a prototype - something you should have had to begin with. Why do you need so much money for a proof of concept? All you have is a controller. Congratulations.

 

Honestly, the best thing you ever did was purchase the Jag shells. You could have made a killing selling custom cases for that hardware. That could have funded your prototype.

 

Instead, you're now claiming that we're poisoning your project. AA brought you to the point you're at today with Gamegavel and such. So much for not shitting where you eat.

 

Off you go.

 

ed41272ca093f652e510b3232085e905.320x202

 

EDIT: i hope people don't think I'm trying to be "OUTRAGEOUS" again... :lolblue: :lolblue: :lolblue:

Edited by Giltygear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last night on Facebook I left a reply on Mike's post talking about the people who are "infesting" the project with "negativity" by reminding him that the majority of folks here at AtariAge have enthusiastically backed all of his earlier efforts (GameGavel, Retro magazine, and the Jag shells) but now, because we have the audacity to point out that this project is deeply flawed in is current state, he turns his back on us.

 

He of course deleted the comment.

 

Very sensible comment Jibbajabba. It would have been a useful point of reference to draw a logical conclusion from, if they actually read it. But, they probably just saw your name and deleted it, assuming it was all snark!! :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You're asking for money for a prototype - something you should have had to begin with. Why do you need so much money for a proof of concept? All you have is a controller. Congratulations.

 

Honestly, the best thing you ever did was purchase the Jag shells. You could have made a killing selling custom cases for that hardware. That could have funded your prototype.

 

Instead, you're now claiming that we're poisoning your project. AA brought you to the point you're at today with Gamegavel and such. So much for not shitting where you eat.

 

post-1434-0-54019600-1442852850_thumb.jpg

Edited by Chris++

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMG 20150922 004544



Someone posited this question in the comment section of the campaign. Let's see if they respond, either with non-specific answers, not at all, or simply delete it. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have done a little thinking and if I had any positive mental capital left towards this thing, it is now gone:

 

Funding Goal: $1,950,500

 

Two thirds of this is to be used to “manufacture contributor’s rewards”.

 

This leaves $650,000. Of this, 37%, or $240,000 is for “stipends (about half our normal wages) so we can afford to do this full time”.

 

I am assuming that “we” is the three principals, that is $80,000 each.

 

According to the development plan on the IGG page, they plan to deliver product in Q4 2016. Assuming they spread the “stipend” across the five quarters, I would calculate the payout to each of them at a rate of $64,000 per year. If this is half their normal wages, that means they are averaging $128,000 a year in income, correct?

 

With this degree of income established, I can come up with two possibilities related to this campaign:

 

Either:

 

A – They should be able to scratch up enough discretionary income to come up with a working prototype and run the campaign correctly.

 

Or:

 

B – They are not good (as a group) at managing money and should not be trusted with $300+ of mine.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

QDZWkKa.png

 

This exchange is really telling. Mike really thinks that what he's done thus far is the "hard part" and that designing and producing the boards is going to be the easy, final step. I already said this to him on FB, but he really needs to stop posting. He's rapidly digging himself deeper and deeper.

 

If they were smart, they would pull the campaign and admit that they were not yet ready for this stage, then come back at a later date with a working prototype. Yes, it would hurt their reputation, but they're hurting it more right now by having this massively-underfunded campaign combined with their behavior on social media.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I only haul in 30k annually (and I live fairly comfortably, albeit my pad isn't very big) so when they are asking for that much money to support themselves, I don't have very much sympathy for them.

 

But really, even with how bad things look, they have still been able to drum up 60k in a day! If they can't afford to knock up the proto out of their own funds, all they need to do is get a few of their early backers, who seem extremely eager, to help them fund the cost of the proto!

 

Once they have a working proto, almost all of us in this thread go away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did they really call Kevtris a "fly-by-night game hobbyist"? These guys need to be schooled.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last night on Facebook I left a reply on Mike's post talking about the people who are "infesting" the project with "negativity" by reminding him that the majority of folks here at AtariAge have enthusiastically backed all of his earlier efforts (GameGavel, Retro magazine, and the Jag shells) but now, because we have the audacity to point out that this project is deeply flawed in is current state, he turns his back on us.

 

He of course deleted the comment.

 

Well this often becomes the norm with retro gaming crowdfunding....200 project designers, developers, and business experts all think they can do a better job. I also don't understand how a back has been turned? Does not creating a device Atari Age approves of constitute "turning his back?"

 

As for deleting the comment, again, I would have as well. How is Mike supposed to respond to this question?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...