Flojomojo Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Stardust -- you can check out the link for yourself. There is no "next slide." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 There is no "next slide."Heh ... that actually sums up their whole presentation pretty well. It seems like there should be more to it, but there just isn't. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 If every page of this thread would have a couple Amazon ads on it, Albert would have made a bunch of cash. 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emehr Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 If every page of this thread would have a couple Amazon ads on it, Albert would have made a bunch of cash. Ooh, I have an idea: if (nbrPages > 4) showAds = true; 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 If every page of this thread would have a couple Amazon ads on it, Albert would have made a bunch of cash.Ads are gross. That's why we have the subscriber option. If everyone who likes this board would subscribe... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Ads are gross. That's why we have the subscriber option. If everyone who likes this board would subscribe... Yes, perhaps, but none of the people who signed up, just to chime in on this thread are part of that group. And neither are the endless amounts of guests who just read the thread without an account (e.g. FB or NeoGaf cross links). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I'd like to add, this was just a thought of mine, not something we discussed (Al hates ads). Hehe, wouldn't that be quite the reversal of hacking, someone breaks into the server and makes this thread pay per view and adds Albert's PayPal account as the destination. Proceed, I guess... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
number six Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 What a downer. I was in the TAKE MY MONEY!!! crowd on this when it was the full FPGA setup. Even at $300ish a system that could authentically replicate all your classic systems with a modern HDMI interface sounded like a no brainer. Even if the software support never materialized the cartridge adapters/etc would give me enough value for my money. However, a system designed around playing indie games on a cartridge.. well not so much. There's some novelty in having an old school platform for this, but not much. Most of the indie games are available for $5 and play just fine on my Alienware (which is cheaper than a Retro VGS apparently). Then there's the problem of absolutely needing the parent company to survive (and thrive!) to make an indie platform viable longterm. If they crash and burn.. well you got something even less useful than an ouya (ouch!). Given that it seems like the Retro VGS team is a shambles and weren't even sure of the direction they wanted to go in as of a few weeks ago (when they brought up the cartridge adapters) gives me 0 confidence in this project. I might have still done it at $150ish but at $350 (plus shipping) eh.. I'm not that much of a gambler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug0909 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) I'm an avid retrogamer and a backer of retro vgs. I am not a techie. I have not had the time to read everything on this gigantic thread, retro vgs's facebook page, and other sites, and I don't quite understand all of the techie discussion. But I have to say, I disagree with the critics on a bunch of points, while also I think agreeing with them on one critical point. Sorry, I completely agree with the system's makers that using current knowledge and tech to build a bulletproof system with carts which will last for decades to come is well worth the $$$. We've all grown to love certain games, then experienced frustrations with gaming longevity, from games that no longer run on current PC/Mac OS's to connectivity requirement issues to even our beloved classic systems wearing out. Also about the price point... $200, $300.... If the Retro VGS team misled about price or was unprofessional with their projections/statements, they deserve the criticism. But otherwise, really, who cares? If this thing is designed for nice cartridges with boxes and manuals and art... and magnetic strips designed to survive the apocalypse, I assuming they'll be selling for $30-$50 each... so if this actually happened, for people who are really into the system and buying carts, that $100 console price difference isn't going to be that significant in terms of overall costs a few years down the road. IMHO, using the great solid state tech of today to make a "modern retro" system with durable media is a really great idea. But.... Couldn't they just make this a dual use machine by building in an SD card slot and allowing software to be booted off of SD (or allowing that through a card reader attached to a USB port)? And of course also making the system open for homebrews and emulators to be easily developed and put on those SD cards. So many people would love to not have to run their games on emulators through a pc, or use one of the retro remake consoles with their limited controller options (and sometimes poor emulation). FPGA sounds great, but even if this was done through regular old emulators and homebrews written in a modern language, this could still be a great dual-use system. I understand the creators' desire for "purity", but having an SD card slot or letting someone put a card reader in isn't going to change the look of this thing, I assume it can be done in a way such that it doesn't effect its normative functioning (with carts), and people who want to buy carts as collectors items, to support the coders, or for that retro feel, are still going to do so. This just means they won't need a collection of old systems, or a retron 5, or a PC with emulators and homebrews, also hooked up to the TV. They'd just have this great dual use device that takes all types of controllers and runs emulators and homebrews... Also, while I appreciate the sentiment against updates, new types of controllers will come out in the future and (rare) driver updates through SD could address that (as well as any other critical BIOS/ROM problems, which might creep up even with the best quality control). Anyhow I'll shut up now because as strong as my feelings are that the concept was good but they screwed up by not making this a dual use device, I also admit I don't fully understand the technological needs and challenges... Edited September 24, 2015 by doug0909 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Well, now we know who their market is... 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug0909 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) Yes, their market is largely non-techies. That's most of the country, and a large chunk of the people with nostalgia for old systems and an appreciation for system durability and simplicity. Not sure why that shocks you, or why it deserves mockery. But even we don't want a system which can never be updated through software no matter how critical the need, and which can't be hacked and used flexibly if we put the effort in.... Which is why I think they screwed up. Edited September 24, 2015 by doug0909 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triverse Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I just concluded my interview with the RETRO VGS team (all three members). There were some heated moments and some really tough questions were answered. I will be releasing the edited MP3 later this week (probably on Saturday) along with a transcription on my site and a Youtube vid with pertinent pics so that this reaches the maximum number of people. It is quite interesting. Some of the stuff answered include how they came to those funding amounts, where the prototype is and the bug in a published game situation among others. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amstari Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I'm an avid retrogamer and a backer of retro vgs. I am not a techie. I have not had the time to read everything on this gigantic thread, retro vgs's facebook page, and other sites, and I don't quite understand all of the techie discussion. Did you know they don't have an actual console yet? Not even a prototype. You don't need to understand technical details because they haven't provided any real details. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug0909 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Yes I know that. I wasn't addressing the questions that raises. But correct me if I'm wrong... there has been no discussion whatsoever of allowing the end user to run anything that doesn't fit into that cartridge slot...... That bothers this non-techie more than the lack of a prototype and their business plan at this point. Maybe it shouldn't, but it does. G'night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Yes, their market is largely non-techies. That's most of the country, and a large chunk of the people with nostalgia for old systems and an appreciation for system durability and simplicity. Not sure why that shocks you, or why it deserves mockery. But even we don't want a system which can never be updated through software no matter how critical the need, and which can't be hacked and used flexibly if we put the effort in.... Which is why I think they screwed up. Saying anything in this thread puts you at risk. Don't worry about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Some of the stuff answered include how they came to those funding amounts, where the prototype is and the bug in a published game situation among others. ..is it hidden under the bed? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcdev Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) But otherwise, really, who cares? There's only one reason why anyone in this thread cares, albeit a good one. At some point quite a few months ago, we were promised a console with certain features and capabilities; a console that stood out from the crowd with its unique and exciting design. It was exactly what many of us had been waiting on for a long time, and the slick marketing replete with PCB renderings, gameplay videos, shiny case renderings and all the hype sucked us in. Then at the 11th hour they switched the gameplan, and we also saw the man behind the curtain. The one discerning feature we wanted (the FPGA) was gone together with, as would later be revealed, the only person who could make it useful within a reasonable timeframe. And when it finally came time to put our money up, we expressed disdain at the lack of technical details and discovered - much to everyone's disbelief - that they don't even have a prototype! Now the significance of that one fact may be lost on the less technical amongst us, but there is a reason why Kickstarter require (at least officially) a working prototype before running a hardware campaign. It's abundantly clear now that they haven't even settled on a design, and certain comments even suggest they're not even capable of it, and after working in engineering for over two decades I can assure you that it's a recipe for almost certain disaster. That is why this thread is 84 pages and counting. We're not here to bash a product that we never wanted. I looked briefly at the Ouya when it was being developed, yawned, and went on my way - I didn't hang around forums proclaiming it was rubbish or useless. You can't show your cat a shiny bauble, taunt it and then take it away. It's bound to get pissed. Edited September 24, 2015 by tcdev 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I just concluded my interview with the RETRO VGS team (all three members). There were some heated moments and some really tough questions were answered. I will be releasing the edited MP3 later this week (probably on Saturday) along with a transcription on my site and a Youtube vid with pertinent pics so that this reaches the maximum number of people. It is quite interesting. Some of the stuff answered include how they came to those funding amounts, where the prototype is and the bug in a published game situation among others. Tease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGQuarterly Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I will be releasing the edited MP3 later this week (probably on Saturday) along with a transcription on my site and a Youtube vid with pertinent pics so that this reaches the maximum number of people. Serious? Man, I'd be pulling an all-nighter to get that deal edited and released. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug0909 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 At some point quite a few months ago, we were promised a console with certain features and capabilities; a console that stood out from the crowd with its unique and exciting design. It was exactly what many of us had been waiting on for a long time, and the slick marketing replete with PCB renderings, gameplay videos, shiny case renderings and all the hype sucked us in. Then at the 11th hour they switched the gameplan, and we also saw the man behind the curtain...you can't show your cat a shiny bauble, taunt it and then take it away. It's bound to get pissed. If this is all correct I apologize for not understanding the depth of the frustration, particularly for people who were really counting on the inclusion of things which were being promised with specificity.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcdev Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) Serious? Man, I'd be pulling an all-nighter to get that deal edited and released. Yeah, the campaign might have tanked before you release it at that rate! Edited September 24, 2015 by tcdev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGQuarterly Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 The latest CrowdCharts prediction has the campaign ending at $133,466. I really don't understand why they don't pull the plug and regroup. As has been suggested, sell some more Jag shells to fund a prototype. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I'm so sick of everyone trying to roll their own FPGA system.Someone create a joystick/cart interface board and pretty case for the Terassic DE1 already.DE1s sell for $150 now and can run all but the largest FPGA projects.Then individual cart adapters could be made for individual systems if that's what people really want. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 ..is it hidden under the bed?Prototype exists only in their mind. Hence their incessant reliance on 3D renderings to realize their dreams and ambitions. They want you to "see" their vision and what they see. Kevtris' mind works the exact opposite. He likely sees logic analyzers and PCBs and schematics components and smoking solder flux when he sleeps. Not shiny plastic casings of finished retail products or dollar signs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevtris Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I'm so sick of everyone trying to roll their own FPGA system. Someone create a joystick/cart interface board and pretty case for the Terassic DE1 already. DE1s sell for $150 now and can run all but the largest FPGA projects. Then individual cart adapters could be made for individual systems if that's what people really want. Because it doesn't have the hardware on it I want, and using someone else's premade board isn't any fun. Part of the fun is designing it, making it, then programming it. The DE1 is OK but just not really set up for what I want to do. It is cheap, but part of the cheapness is due to special pricing they get from FPGA vendor, and the other vendors like Analog Devices for i.e. power supply components. If I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do it my way dammit :-) 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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