13matt Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I have always loved the old Star Wars vector coin op, but somewhat dissapointed with the two efforts produced for the A8, has anyone thought about a possible port from the Spectrum? Certainly the best 8 bit version created, Might be poissible to do Empire the same way. Just a thought... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Another option is port the arcade version. But I suspect it has a fair bit more going on compared to Asteroids, plus uses a 6809 unlike most Atari games of that time. 6809 code would port much easier than Z80 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 3D StarStrike would be the one to look at.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorsten Günther Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 The Spectrum' CPU is much faster and has a load more of registers to do the 3D arithmetics. Just compare the Domark C64 Star Wars to the Speccy version: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I could be wrong but I doubt the Atari is suited to fast math plottting used in 3D (I'm sure the term I used is wrong but its the general idea I'm explaining) so things like wire frame 3D is pushing the poor old 6502 a lot, I'm sure if someone sat down to write a purpose built version for the Atari it could be done but the old ports were simply pay days for the people doing them rather than being Atari coding master classes. 6809, didn't the Dragon computer in the UK use that? Sorry, just trivia... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) Also one of those rare times the ridiculously oversaturated colours have an advantage. Dragon = almost clone of TRS-80 Color Computer. Same 6809 as per SW arcade but handicapped by running at only 0.89 MHz. Edited March 4, 2015 by Rybags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I was just about to say that we as Maplin sold them but I simply never did sell a single one.. Bloody awful machine.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Model 3 CoCo is a fairly capable machine, but it's about what they should have had to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I have always loved the old Star Wars vector coin op, but somewhat dissapointed with the two efforts produced for the A8, has anyone thought about a possible port from the Spectrum? Certainly the best 8 bit version created, Might be poissible to do Empire the same way. Just a thought... From what I've seen, the ZX Spectrum version moves like molasses with limited frames of animation, so I can't see how you could call it "Certainly the best 8 bit version created." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) From what I've seen, the ZX Spectrum version moves like molasses with limited frames of animation, so I can't see how you could call it "Certainly the best 8 bit version created." In that case the Atari version is the best of them. http://youtu.be/1Mb5VJYrd90?t=1m27s ... particular the Tower sequence... Edited March 4, 2015 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I like how we at least got to see the shots moving towards the targets, rather than lines instantly being there. Compared to the Spectrum and Commodore versions, I would say that ours is the best, but it's not very colourful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I like how we at least got to see the shots moving towards the targets, rather than lines instantly being there. Compared to the Spectrum and Commodore versions, I would say that ours is the best, but it's not very colourful. I think the Parker Brothers versions across all platforms were quite good (even the 2600), including the one for ColecoVision, which has a particularly interesting interpretation. It's interesting that there was this need to constantly remake the game though on the same platform (particularly the C-64) using different base technology. I mean, it's a fun game for what it is, but not exactly a deep experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 The Atari version cheats too much. The tie fighters appear to be just sprites and it looses the feel of flying.I don't mind the trench sequence but it jumps a lot between positions in the trench, the shots aren't lines like the arcade and the shot on the exhaust port isn't like a missile.The surface tower sequence only uses a couple towers and they never lean. 3D wireframe graphics require a lot of math and clock cycles to draw/erase the lines so I can understand trying to eliminated that and ROM space in the cart was at a premium but it's not quite the same.It's pretty tough for a sub 2MHz machine with no floating point math support to do that much work but 1337 (Elite) on the Oric does a surprisingly good job.It shows just what can be done with highly optimized math and line drawing on a 1MHz 6502.Still, 1337 takes advantage of a small external view to reduce the amount of drawing required. Even with the faster CPU in the Atari, Star Wars would probably push that graphics engine to it's limit and the load on the CPU would have to be reduced to maintain a decent frame rate. The most obvious optimization is just to draw fewer lines.Using Player Missile graphics would mean not having to constantly draw/erase the X-Wing fighter part of the display.That alone cuts the number of lines considerably.If the tie fighters move in predefined orientations you can have pre-calculated 3D points, then it's just a matter of scaling and offsetting the points before drawing the lines.With enough memory you could even pre-scale points.The towers all lean the same so you just calculate or look them up based on angle once, then scale and move them, but 8+ towers consisting of that many lines each is a bit much.I think 4 towers might be the minimum to maintain the feel of the arcade without killing the frame rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 The Atari version cheats too much. The tie fighters appear to be just sprites and it looses the feel of flying. And where is the imagination of "flying" when the game runs a 1fps (or even slower) ? It's pretty tough for a sub 2MHz machine with no floating point math support to do that much work but 1337 (Elite) on the Oric does a surprisingly good job. No. There is a huge part of the screen doing nothing, and the rest is also low on moving objects. The main question is : Do you want a game or a simulation? For the simulation part, the Speccy version is also too slow . On the Atari , things could get interesting, if someone had a closer look at the Zeppelin version. Gr. 7 and the PM overlay is a nice start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 And where is the imagination of "flying" when the game runs a 1fps (or even slower) ? No. There is a huge part of the screen doing nothing, and the rest is also low on moving objects. Actually, if you watch some of the videos you will see 3 or 4 ships flying around and their gunfire as well as planets in the background. It can have quite a bit going on and it is doing full 3D calculations. The main question is : Do you want a game or a simulation? For the simulation part, the Speccy version is also too slow . Yeah, you have a faster game with the Atari but it just doesn't play the same. I believe the answer is both as that was the intent of the original game. If you can eliminate the slower math and cut the number of lines drawn you should be able to build a playable game. Even if you keep the tie fighters sprite based I think the game could feel more like the arcade. On the Atari , things could get interesting, if someone had a closer look at the Zeppelin version. Gr. 7 and the PM overlay is a nice start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13matt Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 I have realised since starting this topic that I have been confusing my memory of Spectrum Star Wars with Spectrum Empire Strikes Back, which was indeed a fluid and playable game. Star wars on all of the 8 bit computers does seem to lag somewhat looking at youtube clips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) I'm not knowledgeable about the Spectrum - but it seems that the Star Strike 3D clone is rated better than the official Star Wars version. Anyway I was blown away by the Atari ST version of Star Wars - that I purchased this game - and it's probably the only game I purchased for it... Now - do you really expect the Atari 8-bits to deliver a decent port of the Star Wars game? I would hazard a guess that the hardware simply cannot deliver it - that it's best to go for another route - and redo another Star Raiders into a Star Wars clone using whatever tricks you can - by not going the wire frame graphics route? To get a faster frame rate going, and make it a decent action game - instead of a sluggish slow game... Harvey Edited March 7, 2015 by kiwilove Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I'm not knowledgeable about the Spectrum - but it seems that the Star Strike 3D clone is rated better than the official Star Wars version. ... Anyway I was blown away by the Atari ST version of Star Wars - that I purchased this game - and it's probably the only game I purchased for it... Now - do you really expect the Atari 8-bits to deliver a decent port of the Star Wars game? I would hazard a guess that the hardware simply cannot deliver it - that it's best to go for another route - and redo another Star Raiders into a Star Wars clone using whatever tricks you can - by not going the wire frame graphics route? To get a faster frame rate going, and make it a decent action game - instead of a sluggish slow game... Harvey The frame rate certainly looks reasonable and it appears to play pretty well even if the sound will make your ears bleed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 The frame rate certainly looks reasonable and it appears to play pretty well even if the sound will make your ears bleed. Depends on what you expect. Before the SNES somehow every soundchip made your ears bleed. But, it's about late 70s - early 80s computers, so I wouldn't expect 4K cinematics with DTS anyways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 The Atari version could be greatly improved if you make the game bigger. The game is mostly on rails and this means you don't really need a full 3D engine, just pre-rendered endpoints of the objects in different sizes and positions. Then it just comes down to the speed of your line algorithm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
am1933 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I was just about to say that we as Maplin sold them but I simply never did sell a single one.. Bloody awful machine.. How very dare you malign the Tandy/Dragon machines, they were completely brilliant.........................as long as you love the colour green and single channel sound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) How very dare you malign the Tandy/Dragon machines, they were completely brilliant.........................as long as you love the colour green and single channel sound When we were bored at Maplin we would go over to the Tandy across the road and screw up their machines, none of the box shifters in there knew how to work one.. Never has "All Tandy staff are w*****rs" looked so good in green scrolling constantly up the screen... Crude and simple, much like the Tandy staff.... Edited March 7, 2015 by Mclaneinc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 When we were bored at Maplin we would go over to the Tandy across the road and screw up their machines, none of the box shifters in there knew how to work one.. Never has "All Tandy staff are w*****rs" looked so good in green scrolling constantly up the screen... Crude and simple, much like the Tandy staff.... May I guess that this is how you screwed the machines up? 10 PRINT "All Tandy staff are w****rs" 15 REM YOU'RE ALL C&NTS AND YOU KNOW IT! 20 GOTO 10 At least there wasn't a "format c:\" equivalent then!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenjennings Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Is there no break key on the Tandy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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