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JAGUAR, 3DO, AND THE CDI


AtariORdead

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.... speechless ....

 

hopefully just a communication issue, maybe not a native speaker.

 

I'm just used to referring to memory as RAM, that's all. When I've worked on systems in the past I've heard "How much RAM is left on my hard drive?", or "How much RAM is left on this disk?"! I've heard it used to refer to memory many, many times. It may not be a technically correct term for storage space, but I actually would consider it interchangeable with all of those media. I've heard it by a lot of people that have little or no computer knowledge and have incorporated it, much like slang, into my computer dialect. I was not aware that people didn't refer to memory as RAM, honestly. I've heard it so much I thought it was commonplace. I guess it could just be regional, as I've lived where I do for most of my adult life, but I know I'm not the only person around that calls memory RAM. I thought people would understand what I meant. RAM is space..that's how I see it. It's easier to lot space together under one umbrella term and that's what most people I talk to have done as well. My point had to do with storage, rather than RAM as it is, technically speaking, a series of chips in a computer.

 

If you read my earlier post you would see I do refer to RAM in the technical, non computer slang, way in reference to the subject at hand, which is Neo-Geo (compared to 3DO, Jaguar, and CD-i) games and whether they are absolutely identical on both AES and MVS systems. I was indicating that there are subtle differences, whereas most people believe that there are not.

I've actually read and seen proof of this. I've seen details processed on both MVS and AES games with not-identical results and this was my basis for argument.

 

Whether I'm allowed to call memory RAM or not is not up to someone else to warrant.

Edited by Papa
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NeoGeo MVS and AES carts contain the exact same game, in fact with a UniBIOS you can make a game behave like MVS on an AES (coin insert and all) and viceversa but please believe what you want... don't trust people that actually own one (or more).

 

"Whether I'm allowed to call memory RAM or not is not up to someone else to warrant." not sure about that, we use well defined words to limit misunderstandings, and these are quite basic words that mishandling them just because seems an excuse. By any means proceed the way you prefer, just make sure you're precise when it matters.

 

This is the Jag forum after all, you wouldn't call the Serial EEPROM on the Jag Carts as RAM would you? Or maybe you would, what do I know? I spent almost a day trying to have you admit of a term misuse with no avail so maybe I am really dumb.

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The games look different on different systems, regardless of the ROM that is on the chip. The hardware plays it different. The Japanese systems display more/different animations, and the RAM in the systems (home vs arcade) are different. The Euro systems are slower then the U.S. or Japanese systems. If you put a ROM in a system and that system has different hardware than another, then the ROM might look different. Oh, I certainly admit that I use RAM to describe memory, and I'm not the only one. I say things like, I have this much RAM left or this takes up that much RAM, and I've heard it used before. Like I said before, I understand that this is not the same as, say..SDRAM, or DDR-RAM. It's more like using it as a universal term for memory, like with solid state drives, or DVD-RAM. I wouldn't admit that there is something wrong with that, because there isn't. You can put a Genesis cart in an AT-GAMES system and it will sound different and possibly look different due to the hardware being different. You can put a famicom cart in a FOAC system and it may look or sound different. The AES carts contain most, if not all, of the variations of the ROM image, whereas the MVS are, for the most part, regional. If you don't think that the ROMS could look or sound different on different hardware, consider the Neo-Geo X. As I said, I've seen and read evidence of it, so I am not just making this stuff up. I've played enough Neo-Geo games on both fronts to have the knowledge to say what I've said.

Edited by Papa
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The AES carts contain most, if not all, of the variations of the ROM image, whereas the MVS are, for the most part, regional. If you don't think that the ROMS could look or sound different on different hardware, consider the Neo-Geo X. As I said, I've seen and read evidence of it, so I am not just making this stuff up. I've played enough Neo-Geo games on both fronts to have the knowledge to say what I've said.

100% false. But I'm now certain we're being trolled, so I won't go into further detail.

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The games look different on different systems, regardless of the ROM that is on the chip. The hardware plays it different. The Japanese systems display more/different animations, and the RAM in the systems (home vs arcade) are different. The Euro systems are slower then the U.S. or Japanese systems. If you put a ROM in a system and that system has different hardware than another, then the ROM might look different. Oh, I certainly admit that I use RAM to describe memory, and I'm not the only one. I say things like, I have this much RAM left or this takes up that much RAM, and I've heard it used before. Like I said before, I understand that this is not the same as, say..SDRAM, or DDR-RAM. It's more like using it as a universal term for memory, like with solid state drives, or DVD-RAM. I wouldn't admit that there is something wrong with that, because there isn't. You can put a Genesis cart in an AT-GAMES system and it will sound different and possibly look different due to the hardware being different. You can put a famicom cart in a FOAC system and it may look or sound different. The AES carts contain most, if not all, of the variations of the ROM image, whereas the MVS are, for the most part, regional. If you don't think that the ROMS could look or sound different on different hardware, consider the Neo-Geo X. As I said, I've seen and read evidence of it, so I am not just making this stuff up. I've played enough Neo-Geo games on both fronts to have the knowledge to say what I've said.

 

This whole post is borderline unbelievable. And I'm being serious btw.

 

MVS & AES games, from the same region, are represented identically on either hardware. You're confusing the hardware itself with the software. In this case, the bios within the MVS & AES can determine which region of game you play. If you buy Fatal Fury and play it on a Japanese console, you end up playing Garou Densetsu. If you buy Garou Densetsu and play it on a US or EURO console, you end up playing Fatal Fury.

 

In respect of this, any changes you feel you see to any animations (read: Mai's tits bouncing in KOF etc) is nothing to do with the hardware (MVS or AES) the games are running on, but all to do with the BIOS running on the hardware and *shock* the dipswitch settings chosen whilst running the MVS version. And, it doesn't end there.

 

The shock of the matter is, the AES can be fitted with a UniBIOS which enables you to run any single AES title in whichever region you please (EU/US/JP) AND it also allows you to tweak the dipswitch settings through the software, as you would via an MVS cab.

 

Even MORE ridiculous, the UNIBios allows you to run AES games on your AES in MVS mode! And, a further revelation, if you consolize an MVS, you can opt to use the UNIBios in that build and, if you wish, have your CMVS (as we call it) run games in AES/Home Cart mode!

 

For a start...

 

Check out: http://www.neogeoforlife.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=3523&rowstart=0

And some basic visuals: http://rq87.flyingomelette.com/RQ/R/NG/1.html

 

-

 

I hope this post doesn't incite internal combustion or on-the-spot suicide.

 

Thanks.

Edited by NeoGeoNinja
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Double Dragon is Technos so I fail to see the Atari connection

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techn%C5%8Ds_Japan

Oh, sorry thought you were kidding. Her is the connection:

 

Double Dragon was a game for the Atari 7800 developed by Activision (people who worked for Atari to start with). So, it is a part of the Atari universe. There you go.

 

Here you can enjoy some game play of the 7800 title:

 

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This whole post is borderline unbelievable. And I'm being serious btw.

 

MVS & AES games, from the same region, are represented identically on either hardware. You're confusing the hardware itself with the software. In this case, the bios within the MVS & AES can determine which region of game you play. If you buy Fatal Fury and play it on a Japanese console, you end up playing Garou Densetsu. If you buy Garou Densetsu and play it on a US or EURO console, you end up playing Fatal Fury.

 

In respect of this, any changes you feel you see to any animations (read: Mai's tits bouncing in KOF etc) is nothing to do with the hardware (MVS or AES) the games are running on, but all to do with the BIOS running on the hardware and *shock* the dipswitch settings chosen whilst running the MVS version. And, it doesn't end there.

 

The shock of the matter is, the AES can be fitted with a UniBIOS which enables you to run any single AES title in whichever region you please (EU/US/JP) AND it also allows you to tweak the dipswitch settings through the software, as you would via an MVS cab.

 

Even MORE ridiculous, the UNIBios allows you to run AES games on your AES in MVS mode! And, a further revelation, if you consolize an MVS, you can opt to use the UNIBios in that build and, if you wish, have your CMVS (as we call it) run games in AES/Home Cart mode!

 

For a start...

 

Check out: http://www.neogeoforlife.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=3523&rowstart=0

And some basic visuals: http://rq87.flyingomelette.com/RQ/R/NG/1.html

 

-

 

I hope this post doesn't incite internal combustion or on-the-spot suicide.

 

Thanks.

 

 

If the unibios lets you run any version that you want then how is it wrong to say that all variations of the rom are on the AES cart? Again, I've read this and seen the differences. The bios (I would consider to be part of the hardware) is partly what I was talking about, so I'd have to say that that was right, too. But, if there are better caps in an MVS, the sound is better, the screen (*sigh) of an arcade system is MUCH better than the T.V. set the AES is designed for. I've read that the Euro system is slower (50hz). I happen to know FOR A FACT that if you play a ROM on different hardware that it can (and sometimes does) look and sound different. There are actually many complaints regarding the sound on AT-Games systems compared to actual hardware, and the same is true for the Neo-Geo X, where hardcore collecters note obvious lag and sound differences (again, I've read and seen these differences). I can't believe that you're arguing that a home system is identical to an arcade system. The components in the arcade system are better, higher quality parts.

 

Are you insinuting I should commit suicide over the Neo-Geo?

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Oh, sorry thought you were kidding. Her is the connection:

 

Double Dragon was a game for the Atari 7800 developed by Activision (people who worked for Atari to start with). So, it is a part of the Atari universe. There you go.

 

Here you can enjoy some game play of the 7800 title:

 

So the connection is just that a game was released for an Atari machine, hardly what you would call something you would describe as synonymous with the atari brand as you were implying.

 

DD was a spiritual sequel to the kunio-kun/renegade series and was ported to just about every platform to man, it really has no more special attachment to Atari than any other company.

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I appreciate (and of course, own) all three platforms, but of the three, I find the 3DO easily the superior choice. I liked it better back in the day from a technical standpoint (it felt next gen to me where the Jaguar struggled to evoke such a feeling) and it has a more interesting game selection.

 

With the MPEG/RAM add-on (or built-in, depending upon the model), FMV games like Dragon's Lair and some of the game show stuff really shines on the CD-i, and it has just enough quirky titles to make it interesting. Another interesting aspect of the platform is the large number of console options, from oversized consoles to self-contained portables. Of course it's let down by the controls for the most part, but even that holds quite a bit of interest from a pure options standpoint.

 

As for the Jaguar, a lot of the games rub me the wrong way aesthetically. With that said, there are certain games on the platform I really love, like Wolfenstein 3D and Tempest 2K, which is enhanced greatly for me with the spinner support, a favorite control method. As for controls, until I got a Pro Controller, I really found the stock Jaguar controller extremely uncomfortable. With the Pro Controller, I was able to enjoy the system more.

 

So, ultimately, for me, I'd rank the 3DO a clear first, followed by the Jaguar and then the CD-i, which is not as far behind as some would probably like. The best part for me though is that I have extensive collections for all three platforms, so I can experience first-hand the best (and of course, worst) each has to offer.

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So the connection is just that a game was released for an Atari machine, hardly what you would call something you would describe as synonymous with the atari brand as you were implying.

 

DD was a spiritual sequel to the kunio-kun/renegade series and was ported to just about every platform to man, it really has no more special attachment to Atari than any other company.

I demand that you all know every little detail about everything within the Atari universe, I just didn't know you would go around being angry about it. But if that is the case, I need to rethink.

 

Any hoo, it's a recommendation if your ponder to pick up some good, cheap Neo CD games, that is all.

 

 

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I demand that you all know every little detail about everything within the Atari universe, I just didn't know you would go around being angry about it. But if that is the case, I need to rethink.

 

Any hoo, it's a recommendation if your ponder to pick up some good, cheap Neo CD games, that is all.

 

 

 

We were expecting that the connection was to some unique and original Atari software, the fact that the 7800 has a version of DD doesn't mean that DD is a connection to Atari.

Also DD is more rare than it is good, it's by no mean the worst port but it doesn't exactly shine on the 7800, there's better titles on the platform to sink your money in.

[i do have DD for 7800 as well as all the rest of the official releases in homemade multicarts, so it's not that I never played it or something]

 

Regarding DD on the NGCD it is a different game, a fighter, it being cheap is not a redeeming quality per se, although not as bad as people made it to be there's better and cheap fighters on NGCD.

Obviously once you take the "backup" route price doesn't really matter, the whole NGCD library is 98 games of which I believe ~35 are fighters.

 

Given NGCD/AES/MVS are NOT in the OP list it's all out of topic anyway.

 

To be back on topic if a long lost friend would ask me about what to buy among 3DO/CDi/Jag(with CD) I have to agree with Bill that the order is:

3DO first (bigger and better library), Jag (a few nice games indeed +Jag CD if you want to play those ~13 extra), then last CDi (you need to like FMV and mouse based adventures for this one).

 

The CDi with FMV cart is actually a decent FMV gaming machine but it is not cheap to get a mouse, the gun and a decent pad, outside of FMV games or gun games there's not really much that can compete to what is available on either of the 3DO or Jag. CDi adventure games are not bad but a little slow plodding by today's standards.

Edited by phoenixdownita
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So you were expecting that a topic called "JAGUAR, 3DO, AND THE CDI" or really any topic in the Jaguar section should be only about the positive of the Jaguar as if the rest of the world did not exist?

If that was the case all topics would be the same and end in 1 sentence:

"Jag rulez"

 

The OP asked what other people thought, I presume not expecting Jag would have been the automatic and only answer or why even bother to ask.

 

By the way majority does not mean anything when it comes to opinions about likes and dislikes, you don't have to follow the majority or feel bad about having a different opinion. You have to make your own mind but at the same time stay critic and allow yourself to change opinion if you wish to do so or see reason to do so. "XXXX for ever" statements do not make sense, "XXXX until I change my mind" are more like it.

 

For now I'd recommend first a 3DO over a Jag, in due time I may change my mind and go the other way (maybe because I spent more time with either or saw some ugly/beauty I didn't know about etc...): personal opinion based on personal experience. Nobody here is asking you to like the 3DO more than the Jag but we are asking you to be open to the possibility that others could see it that way .... and no sadness involved.

 

We are all fine with you liking the Jag more than the 3DO, good for you, be fine with others being the other way for whatever reason.

 

Exactly as Bill I own each of them so it comes down to how much I enjoy taking one out of the case and playing it. Recently the most time I spent was on a CDi as I needed an FMV fix and it was the latest I acquired, nothing wrong with that. I thought I would be sorely disappointed and instead I was pleasantly surprised of what I found. Maybe my expectations were not too high to begin with and that worked on the CDi favor, maybe my expectations for the Jag were too high and it worked against it, about the 3DO I didn't know what to expect so I suspended judgment I guess.

 

Once more no need to be sad about anything, or, if that was the intent, no need for you to be contemptuous with that remark. Can't say if that was the intent so don't feel called out on it.

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You seem to like to insult people, don't you? Like I haven't worked on computers for most of my life. Both are measured in bytes, that's all I'm saying. I know exactly what I'm talking about.

 

I have repaired computers, built computers, programmed computers and loved computers since my early teens. I've worked as a computer repair technition and fixed peoples computers as side work. I've spoken to computer programmers and builders and that's the lingo that we use. This takes up that much RAM or that takes up this much RAM. I have programmed games in several languages.

I'm not jumping in to attack or defend anyone here, I understand what you are talking about, but in my 30+ years of talking computers/consoles we do refer to ROM and RAM as both being memory, because they are, but one can only be read from the other read or write. I can say that a Jaguar, with a 4MB cartridge plugged in has a total of 6MB of memory, but not 6MB of RAM memory. The memory is used in different ways depending on the system, and sometimes rom has to be moved into ram, sometimes it can be accessed directly, depending on the architecture of the computer/system.

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Haven't you posted about Neo Geo above, being off topic yourself??

 

Since you now demand, back to topic: Too bad most of forumists in this thread prefer 3do to Jaguar. It's kind of a sad fact, being in Jag haven and all. But like what you want.

 

If it makes you feel any better, even though I chose Jag and 3DO as tied for me, if I had to get rid of one of them it would be the 3DO first...or at least that's the way it's always been so far, but with Jag prices skyrocketing these days I think i could get ten times as much for my Jag collection as i can for my 3DO collection...money aside, if I could only take one to a desert island that has electricity, it would be the Jag.

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Oh, sorry thought you were kidding. Her is the connection:

 

Double Dragon was a game for the Atari 7800 developed by Activision (people who worked for Atari to start with). So, it is a part of the Atari universe. There you go.

 

Here you can enjoy some game play of the 7800 title:

 

There was also a 2600 version and an Atari ST version and Atari Lynx, and of course, as bad as it is, DDV on the Jaguar, so there's 5 Atari systems that have a relation to Double Dragon.

Edited by Gunstar
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So the connection is just that a game was released for an Atari machine, hardly what you would call something you would describe as synonymous with the atari brand as you were implying.

 

DD was a spiritual sequel to the kunio-kun/renegade series and was ported to just about every platform to man, it really has no more special attachment to Atari than any other company.

 

5 Atari machines had Double Dragon or a derivative of it on them.

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5 Atari machines had Double Dragon or a derivative of it on them.

No ones disputing that, but to see its a game series thats strongly connected to atari is a bit much.

 

Its not like a magaman = Nintendo, or a Thunderforce = Sega type of strong link like he was suggesting.

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TRUE DAT. But if you grew up with mainly Atari systems and that's pretty much all DD experience then I could see someone closely relating Atari/DD. Outside of the Arcade I don't think I've had any experience with DD except on Atari systems...but i don't feel like every Atari system needs a DD game.

Edited by Gunstar
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If it makes you feel any better, even though I chose Jag and 3DO as tied for me, if I had to get rid of one of them it would be the 3DO first...or at least that's the way it's always been so far, but with Jag prices skyrocketing these days I think i could get ten times as much for my Jag collection as i can for my 3DO collection...money aside, if I could only take one to a desert island that has electricity, it would be the Jag.

 

I should add that unlike the Jaguar, the 3DO has a lot of untapped experiences to be had for me personally. I've only ever played about 20 or so titles on the machine and for the most part thought they were pretty good games. The reason I have a Jaguar and not a 3DO is because the Jag just lies within my interest moreso than the 3DO does and I enjoy the betas/unreleased stuff. I was even interested in the M2 because of that very reason but couldn't justify affording yet another console to explore a very limited number of prototype or unreleased games on but it would be cool to eventually find one at a gaming convention to play but I'm not sure if that'll ever happen. I think the closest I'll get to that is the ASSembler forums and youtube videos.

Edited by Clint Thompson
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5 Atari machines had Double Dragon or a derivative of it on them.

As long as this thread is already off the rails, I think Nintendo systems had at least 8 versions of Double Dragon games, including a version of DDV. I seem to remember Battletoads/DD games too, but other than the NES I can't recall which systems had versions. Probably the GameBoy too. (Edit: And SNES). I forgot how popular that franchise was.

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