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budz2355

Games - Ghosts 'n Goblins

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I was watching this last night:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtiS7rPjkvY

 

It seems that perhaps the TI is technically superior to some of these machines?

 

Is there any way to get this game on the TI?

 

Are there any similar games?

 

Sorry for the dumb questions!

Edited by budz2355

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The C16 / Plus/4 version looks pretty horrid and the Speccy version isn't exactly one of the best efforts I've seen for the machine.
I think the TI could top those two even with single color sprites.

The Plus/4 version was just thrown together with the least amount of effort.

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the best music is on the C64 with the SID !! :D i love that kind of sound ! :D

I think that's one of the most famous C64 game soundtracks.

It's nothing like the arcade but very cool.

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The Commodore 64 version is by far my favorite. This is definitely on my list of games which need a TI conversion.

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The Colecovision version really seems quite doable on the TI. Perhaps CS1 might be interested in it as a replacement for Arkanoid? ;)

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The Colecovision version really seems quite doable on the TI. Perhaps CS1 might be interested in it as a replacement for Arkanoid? ;)

 

What makes you think I have not given it thought? hehehehe Actually, I have been working on some of the G&G music :)

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To amend, I have to keep my goals realistic. I am barely working on my current game, and at this rate I expect to do no more than a game a year so I need to keep my list short.

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The Colecovision version really seems quite doable on the TI. Perhaps CS1 might be interested in it as a replacement for Arkanoid? ;)

 

Meh... we should do a scrolling version... I'm sure my Alex Kidd engine should be able to pull this off, if only I had the time... :-/

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Colecovision Ghost&Zombies is a very much shortened version. There´s no scrolling and it has just few screens. Several years ago Dvik made a fantastic smooth scrolling Ghost´n´Goblins first stage demo for MSX. I think the sprites were far bigger than on C64 conversion. It was discussed at least in Karoshi forum. I am afraiding that those demos are not downloadable anymore, maybe you should contact Dvik and ask for that demo. In the same discussion somebody converted Nes G´n´G music to MSX. Yes, it sounded good, but as you know, it was not The Music you are wanting to hear, it doesn´t sound anything like C64 tune was, naturally. Decades ago it was not a nice moment to hear that Amiga conversion doesn´t have same music as C64 G´n´G, but arcade game tune (which Nes conversion has too), which really isn´t anywhere as moody as C64 tune.

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Yeah, the C64 tune is pretty "deep" versus the arcade. Between the two, though, I like the arcade version for being spritely and moving. Both are just as good, IMO, and proper for the particular venue. (BTW, the C64 sound in the "Let's Compare" video is not accurately emulated.)

 

(The attached is a SIDplayer file, which will play in VLC player.)

Ghosts_n_Goblins.sid

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The TI bitmap mode conversion looks a bit disappointing in comparison:

 

attachicon.gifGhoulsNGhosts-SMS-TheExecutionPlacepart1-TI.png

 

Straight up, sure, but a little artist work and it could be made to work quite well. I have been looking at the different conversions of Ghosts 'n' Goblins and Shadow of the Beast, and I am pretty certain a good TI conversion can be made even with Beast's complex parallax scrolling. I need to sit down sometime with all of the scrolling routines that you and others have posted and have a go at some game mock-ups. I seriously want to see TI conversions of Shadow of the Beast, Ghosts 'n' Goblins, Zaxxon, Berzerk, Gauntlet, and Trolls and Tribulations, to name a few.

 

If I were to do these I am looking at them in order of complexity, probably making Zaxxon and Shadow of the Beast the last two. I have already done up tile and sprite sets for all except GnG, and music for almost all of them. I really need to thank the "Let's Compare" guy for his videos as they are very helpful in my brainstorming, as well as all of the long play videos that are out there.

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The SMS version is a good match for the F18A, the map loads straight into Magellan in ECM3 mode:

 

attachicon.gifGhoulsNGhosts-SMS-TheExecutionPlacepart1.png

 

http://www.smspower.org/Maps/GhoulsNGhosts-SMS

 

The TI bitmap mode conversion looks a bit disappointing in comparison:

 

attachicon.gifGhoulsNGhosts-SMS-TheExecutionPlacepart1-TI.png

 

I think the bitmap version still looks pretty good actually (especially if you ignore the sprites). However, you won't be able to scroll that map smoothly without heavy modifications, especially to the building sections.

 

Also, that's Ghouls N Ghosts, not Ghosts N Goblins :). smspower is a great site for these level graphics, and sadly I haven't found a NES alternative that has the same information. The NES version of Ghosts N Goblins would be an excellent place to start for an F18A port (given that the NES is, like the F18A, also limited to 3bpp instead of the 4bpp afforded by the SMS).

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Looks like the Commodore 16 version was coded by someone who had been given a book about ghosts n goblins and not actually ever seen it for real ... lol .... I think the TI could pull off a half-decent G & G given that it could use 16-bit scratchpad ram to scroll the screen smoothly. It would fair okay with single-colour sprites .... the thing in question would be ... do you give Arthur the ability to fire multiple knives / spears in one go (3 else 4 at a time) ... as that presents the obvious problem of the 4-in-line sprite limitation (which would persuade coders to do an F18A version perhaps?) ..... the biggest problem being end of level bosses which might take up 2 sprites in width ....... That said, there are some really clever people on here that would get around all this somehow ... it would be great to see a TI version. The music could be good too, if it were optimised for the sound chip it's coded on and not attempting too much to 'get' the sound of the arcade. Polyphonic chord harmony in a gothic style using 3 channels.

 

Also - the pictures Rasmus show, I agree look disappointing - however ... there may be a better colour combination (for the trees) that better suits the palette of the TI99 rather than blatantly copying the other machine's colours and it comes out shocking..... This is what it is about 'port-overs' that sometimes lacked in quality, because they were ported and not tailored ... I've never seen evidence of a bad port on the TI but I've seen plenty for other machines.

Edited by Retrospect

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The TED is a rather limited video chip. It lacks sprites and hardware scrolling registers, though it does have 16 colors which, excluding black, each have eight levels of luminance. GnG on the C16 and Plus4 was doomed from the start.

 

Also, I did some re-arranging on my GnG music, here. More to come.

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The TED is a rather limited video chip. It lacks sprites and hardware scrolling registers, though it does have 16 colors which, excluding black, each have eight levels of luminance. GnG on the C16 and Plus4 was doomed from the start.

 

Also, I did some re-arranging on my GnG music, here. More to come.

The TED is just so limited. You can't do anything with it.

Damned lack of sprite hardware

Wait... is this an Amiga?

Ok, they used a SID card with some of those but... limited?

By the programmer maybe.

 

*edit*

This game uses TED sound and lots of scrolling/sprites

Edited by JamesD

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YouTube does not work in my browser and I am not about to spend time trying to fix it just to see what you are throwing at me. From the thumbnails, however, I can see your attempt is to demonstrate a lot of modern techniques which were not used in the same era that Ghosts 'n' Goblins was made. A lot can be said for a few platforms: the TI VDP was known to be limited to specific modes and speeds and lack of hardware scrolling for smooth scrolling; the Commodore 64 was known to not be able to push 2400 bps, etc.

 

I apologize for not mentioning that TED has a shared memory model and resolution modes similar to that of the VIC-II.

 

Given the knowledge of the time and the development of skills for manipulating the TED at the time, I stand by my statement: with the limitations of TED, Ghosts 'n' Goblins was a doomed endeavor. I did not say "you can't do anything with it." Your counter is valid, as well, just a little more in-your-face about it.

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The TED is a rather limited video chip. It lacks sprites and hardware scrolling registers, though it does have 16 colors which, excluding black, each have eight levels of luminance.

It does seem to have hardware scrolling registers ($ff06 & $ff07).

 

YouTube does not work in my browser and I am not about to spend time trying to fix it just to see what you are throwing at me.

I've only seen but a quarter of it, but it sure puts the TI up against the wall. Even if it turns out to be a discussing about comparing apples and oranges.

 

Given the knowledge of the time and the development of skills for manipulating the TED at the time, I stand by my statement: with the limitations of TED, Ghosts 'n' Goblins was a doomed endeavor.

And given the same circumstances the endeavor for the TI would have to be said to be even more doomed. When Ghosts 'n Goblins came out the TI were already out of production.

 

Don't miss that back in the eighties, the TED based machines sold much much better in Central Europe and Mexico.

 

Why don't we just push and/or have fun with our love instead of reigniting 8-bit wars ?

 

:|

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It does seem to have hardware scrolling registers ($ff06 & $ff07).

Then information in my brain index is out-dated or otherwise faulty. Thank you.

 

I've only seen but a quarter of it, but it sure puts the TI up against the wall. Even if it turns out to be a discussing about comparing apples and oranges.

Pretty much. Shared memory video chips have the advantage of the CPU being able to put data right into the video frame but at the cost of losing CPU cycles when there is contention between the two. I see the latter as far less of a problem. Plus, again, in fairness, TED has 121 colors and a completely different bit-map mode than the 9918A.

 

And given the same circumstances the endeavor for the TI would have to be said to be even more doomed. When Ghosts 'n Goblins came out the TI were already out of production.

 

Don't miss that back in the eighties, the TED based machines sold much much better in Central Europe and Mexico.

Precisely my point. We knew things for fact, or at least were told things as fact, about the VDP and graphics capabilities of the TI that are myth-busted today. Also in my example, even though Commodore engineers were adamant the system could not push 2400 bps, the CBAT routines in Transactor magazine and C-Net BBS shoveled that notion out of the way. There are more examples on other platforms that I have come across. Given certain specs on products and seeing how people can just bend the shit out of them and make something which should be impossible -- that is the real juice.

 

I got my hands on a Plus/4 way back when and had it for a little over a year. Unfortunately I only had access to very limited resources for programming and for software. The best part for me was the built-in machine monitor. I used what I had to try out some stuff and eventually just got bored with it, so I never got as advanced into it as I did the 64 with my splendidly worn-out copy of "The Commodore 64 Programmers Reference Guide."

 

Why don't we just push and/or have fun with our love instead of reigniting 8-bit wars ?

 

:|

Yup.

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Yeah the C16 is capable when pushed by very clever coders - but the guys who did the 16 version of Ghosts 'n' Goblins didn't even look like they had the * intention * of pushing any boundaries - the software sprites are horrendous with the black background around them. If the game was to be recreated today, with what coders know now, it would be a lot better and probably more along the lines of the C64 version graphically just not as smooth, and the sound wouldn't be as nice either. But it wouldn't be offensive like the original version.

 

Like I said it looks like it was coded by someone who had been shown a book about ghosts n goblins and not someone who wanted it to represent the original game.

 

By the way, the thing I mentioned about the 4-sprite-in-a-line limit, if there was to be a TI version, having an effect on how many spears you can chuck at once - would that be a problem or could the spears / daggers / fireballs / whatever be drawn as software sprites or even CHARs ?

Edited by Retrospect

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