How's Ax doing?

[+5-11under]

All I can say is that I'm thankful a few years back I was able to sell my pre-paid slot on the 25th Anniversary 7800 because it was painfully clear even then no forward progress was going to be made. While I sincerely hope his incredible run of bad luck is behind him, I also feel for the people who put their faith in him (meaning buying up others' slots) despite increasingly clear evidence that, for whatever reason, he was not going to be able to deliver.

 

Certainly I'm as active purchaser of homebrew stuff as anyone, and exceedingly patient with delivery, but even I get frustrated after a few years, which several high (and low) profile projects have fallen behind (and then some) over the years. I think it's reasonable to be understanding for a long stretch of time, but after a while, particularly with money changing hands, it's time to deliver the goods or refund the money.

 

I've called for it before in other topics, but it really would be nice to have some type of rules/arbitration in place for homebrew stuff that isn't ready for delivery within a three month period. Something that protects both the creators AND the buyers and avoids situations exactly like this one.

 

I'm not familiar with the 25th anniversary 7800 project, but I think developers need to consider how much money they need to start and get through a project, and then plan accordingly.

 

For instance, consider a project that includes per unit costs of $100 in hardware, $25 in my own labor/profit, and $15 shipping. In this case, the maximum pre-order payment should be $100. The remaining $40 can be collected around the time of shipping. I know this is a very simple example, but the bottom line is that usually not the whole cost needs to be received right away.

 

Also, for very large projects, it's ideal to have a contingency plan in place, in case the single person doing the development has some sort of emergency.

[+remowilliams]

With all of the above in mind, with Kickstarter and other similar services there are no ramifications for failure to deliver, i.e., either run off with or squander the money, so maybe it's unreasonable to think there should be any ramifications or recourse for something that's even less structured.

 

 

Except Kickstarter at its core is purely patronage, and not the order of actual goods and services...

[goldenegg]

 

With all of the above in mind, with Kickstarter and other similar services there are no ramifications for failure to deliver, i.e., either run off with or squander the money, so maybe it's unreasonable to think there should be any ramifications or recourse for something that's even less structured.

 

For anyone using Kickstarter, there shouldn't be any expectation that anything will ever be delivered. Most people still don't understand what Kickstarter is and constantly believe they are paying for a product. Instead, they are paying to help a company try to reach a goal. There's no guarantee that the goal will ever be met. If it is, then you'll get something for backing them. If not, at least you know you help them try to realize their dream. This gets really cloudy when Kickstarter makes deals with companies like Pebble and 3Doodler to actually sell their next generation products on their site, giving people more reason to think it's a store.

 

Those who lost money with Ax, and in other similar situations, were specifically paying money for a product. It was never a "give me money and I'll do my best to make something with it", it was a "We're making this product and are now taking orders". There should be ramifications in these situations, even if the only outcome ends up being threads like this which allow people to vent and letting people know about certain members of the community to be weary of in the future.

[Tempest]

*edit, just read above you were kidding

Well only sort of. This is Shawn we're talking about...

[Bill Loguidice]

I realize what the textbook definition of what Kickstarter and similar services offer is, but the expectation is still that something at some point (preferably within the target timeframe) will be delivered.

[Tempest]

 

For anyone using Kickstarter, there shouldn't be any expectation that anything will ever be delivered. Most people still don't understand what Kickstarter is and constantly believe they are paying for a product. Instead, they are paying to help a company try to reach a goal. There's no guarantee that the goal will ever be met. If it is, then you'll get something for backing them. If not, at least you know you help them try to realize their dream. This gets really cloudy when Kickstarter makes deals with companies like Pebble and 3Doodler to actually sell their next generation products on their site, giving people more reason to think it's a store.

 

Those who lost money with Ax, and in other similar situations, were specifically paying money for a product. It was never a "give me money and I'll do my best to make something with it", it was a "We're making this product and are now taking orders". There should be ramifications in these situations, even if the only outcome ends up being threads like this which allow people to vent and letting people know about certain members of the community to be weary of in the future.

This is why I never pre-order any product even if I know I'm going to buy it the second it becomes available. There are always risks involved in pre-ordering and I just don't feel like taking them. I've lost out on a few things because of this, but I've also avoided some major disasters.

[goldenegg]

I don't typically pre-order items where I have to pay in advance.

[Shawn]

 

It's possible to feel bad about a person's situation, while not allowing that same situation to be an excuse for not delivering a product or refunding money.

 

Exactly this.

[Tempest]

 

Exactly this.

Yes but feeling bad about a person's situation *IS* empathy. Empathy doesn't mean you let them off the hook for what they've done, it just means you FEEL for them, you understand their situation.

 

So you do have empathy after all, which I'll admit is surprising.

[slab0meat]

Does this "Ax" have empathy for everyone who's been screwed over? Does he feel for them and understand?

 

 

 

No idea who Ax is/was other than what I read here, but I find this thread interesting.

[Tempest]

Does this "Ax" have empathy for everyone who's been screwed over? Does he feel for them and understand?

 

I would assume so. From what I know of him he's a good person and wouldn't set out to screw anyone over.

 

I guess I don't understand why he doesn't come back and post something. Even if it's a "My health is preventing me from working on this now" kind of message, I think most people would be satisfied. Poor health or not, you can bang out a message and post it in all of 5 minutes. If he can't manage that then he should appoint someone to be a spokesperson for him. Ignoring the situation completely is the wrong way to go.

[+remowilliams]

I'm guessing because the collected funds were spent, and given the amount and the issues he's posted about in the past there is no way that money could ever be refunded or the projects fulfilled.

[Greg2600]

I'm guessing because the collected funds were spent, and given the amount and the issues he's posted about in the past there is no way that money could ever be refunded or the projects fulfilled.

 

Which is why it's pointless even to discuss him. He's pretty much AWOL for good I think.

[Tempest]

 

Which is why it's pointless even to discuss him. He's pretty much AWOL for good I think.

Never say never, but you may be right.

[goldenegg]

 

Which is why it's pointless even to discuss him. He's pretty much AWOL for good I think.

 

 

Never say never, but you may be right.

 

Eduardo from Opcode Games is a perfect example. He disappeared for an extremely long time, after many people were still waiting for their purchased Coleco Super Game Modules. He finally resurfaced and is slowing making good on the orders.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I've called for it before in other topics, but it really would be nice to have some type of rules/arbitration in place for homebrew stuff that isn't ready for delivery within a three month period. Something that protects both the creators AND the buyers and avoids situations exactly like this one.

On NintendoAge, there is a zero tolerance policy for collecting preorder monies unless a product is completed and ready to ship. Reserving slots is fine, but no money is allowed to exchange hands until it is ready. If a buyer backs out when the time for payment comes, their slot is given to the next in line via a waiting list.

 

Like with the PMP multicart and CPU's recent Sirius and Plutos, a waiting list was created to generate interest, then months later payments were made after the carts were ready to ship. If an individual needs collateral to purchase supplies, then he/she can peddle their unmade goods on Kickstarter or elsewhere, and even link to the project, but directly soliciting investments in the forums is not allowed.

 

Obviously there are exceptions such as commissions, repairs, and mod jobs which have to be paid upfront, but if a person is selling a finished product, it needs to be ready to ship at time of payment.

[Andromeda Stardust]

With all of the above in mind, with Kickstarter and other similar services there are no ramifications for failure to deliver, i.e., either run off with or squander the money, so maybe it's unreasonable to think there should be any ramifications or recourse for something that's even less structured.

I've actually backed a number of Kickstarter campaigns, and all of them so far have come good on their promises. My first backed project (Animusic 3) ironically has taken the longest (backed in 2012, estimated arrival in 2013), but recently they shipped out the T-Shirts and CDs to backers and are still working on the animations in the DVD/BluRays. Due to the span of time involved, I originally ordered the DVD because I didn't own a BluRay player at the time, but two years have passed and I messaged the guy and he said there was still time to upgrade my format. Really nice couple guys and they still run their website animusic.com where they still make their bread and butter selling the older releases.

 

In fact every project I've backed that successfully funded has been loaded with updates, etc... One thing to bear in mind is the startup costs are high but fixed for many projects, so the more funding they get as a business venture, the more likely to succeed. If there is not public support for a project to meet the quota, then they get nothing, so setting a bar helps to make many ventures a safe bet.

[wolfpackmommy]

 

I would assume so. From what I know of him he's a good person and wouldn't set out to screw anyone over.

 

I guess I don't understand why he doesn't come back and post something. Even if it's a "My health is preventing me from working on this now" kind of message, I think most people would be satisfied. Poor health or not, you can bang out a message and post it in all of 5 minutes. If he can't manage that then he should appoint someone to be a spokesperson for him. Ignoring the situation completely is the wrong way to go.

 

Most people don't want to see this sort of personal thread. This reply is being made because Matt thinks it's the right thing to do. So be it.

 

I am that spokesperson. Unfortunately I have been unwell myself. We never disappeared. Just stopped posting publicly. I've done my best to make sure that either myself or other family members kept those people we owe informed. At least every few months. Those we owe are the only people we have to answer to regarding their transactions and it doesn't have to be done in public. They were asked if they would keep waiting several times. They said they would. It is shocking to see so much misinformation on this thread. There is a standing commitment to make good on the 7800 project. That commitment is between my husband, myself, and the buyers. It isn't the responsibility of anyone else. When they write me I answer them. If you have a legitimate issue please write me privately. No one has gone missing. No one has been ignored.

 

The topic of this thread is "How's Ax doing?" For those who care, he is worse not better. He went before an ALJ and is waiting on a disability determination. He is terribly shy about my talking about his health. He is unable to play games and obsesses over his unfinished projects. His mental state is very poor. One arm doesn't work. The other hand locks up and has painful cramps when he uses it. Typing is very difficult for him. Yes he has tried speech to text software. It frustrates him and it is seldom used. Ax loves this forum and many of its members. It pains him greatly that anyone would even consider that he would run away or do anything wrong on purpose. He did so much for this forum. It was his social life. Right now we are relying heavily on family and our teenage children to help out just surviving and covering the bills. As I mentioned my health has gone down hill and I will be starting chemo on Monday. My body did not respond to the

transfusions or IVIG. The steroids are giving me horrible side effects. I've been in the hospital more often than not for the past month and a half. As our sole support for income once Ax was unable to earn, and also primary caregiver to Ax, things have been very difficult. Especially these past few weeks.

 

Matt, we haven't met in person yet. Ax and the kids talk about you like a close friend. We know you are trying to be fair. It is understandable not to prevent freedom of speech and be fair to all. I do have a few friendly disagreements with your saying that this thread follows your sites rules.

 

Looking at the rules located at

 

http://atariage.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=extras§ion=boardrules

 

Please consider the following passages.

 

"off-topic discussion in the forums designated as such." - the thread is about "How's Ax doing?"

 

"responding to an existing thread, please try to be positive, constructive, polite, and on topic" - many posts are off topic and negative

 

"Trolling usually involves disrupting a thread by posting messages that are off-topic" - see above

 

"individual member repeatedly disrupts threads in a negative fashion" - the specific member I'm thinking of has a track record of this

 

"we will not tolerate members insulting each other in the public forums." - see below

 

"other personal discriminations are not permitted." - Ax is a disabled person. Documents were shared with Albert and the AA mods last year.

 

Attention seekers should not be allowed to run amok on any site trying to smoke out a response that they aren't even owed. Also, it is a bit odd that this general discussion is taking place in your marketplace forum.

 

To Goldenband. I'm sorry I have not made your cable. There is a seller on eBay with Ti99 cables for $15. I asked if they would ship one directly to you.

 

To Busterm. You know the master system was sent to you three times. Each time it came back return to sender both your east and west coast addresses. The cost of the postage in the end was over $45. We sold the PS1 we got from you in trade on Amazon for $65 + $4 shipping credit. They take a 15% cut at Amazon and shipping was much more than their maximum $4 credit. We held on to that Master system for 6 months waiting to hear back then sold it to recover the postage spent. It ended up cracked with the buyer getting a partial refund. Probably from too much shipping. All of this information was exchanged when you resurfaced. The deal was a wash. If you want to cover the $45 we spent in postage plus the next $15 stamp I will personally make sure you get a master system. Private message me.

 

To the Canadian that was banned. Ax is sorry he stuck up for you and begged Albert to let you come back.

 

Whether you mind or not, now you know. You can do what you want with it. I'm spending the weekend with my family. I've got a full day chemo orientation on Monday and I'm not going to be on here for a while.

[toiletunes]

I am sending an email, I have a question and would rather discuss business there instead. Thank you for the update.

[+thegoldenband]

To Goldenband. I'm sorry I have not made your cable. There is a seller on eBay with Ti99 cables for $15. I asked if they would ship one directly to you.

That's very kind, and I appreciate it. Please don't spend more than $20, as that's roughly what the "unfinished business" amounted to. The address you have on file for me as of our last communication (September 2013) should still be good. Let me know via PM if there's any additional info you need from me.

 

And, most importantly (and as I said earlier), all best wishes to you and Ax. Can't imagine how brutal it must be to deal with these health issues. I am one of "those who care", and I wish for both of you a full and speedy recovery.

[Shawn]

 

To the Canadian that was banned. Ax is sorry he stuck up for you and begged Albert to let you come back.

 

 

I'm sorry I thought your husband had more honor than a common thief.

 

EDIT: And if you want to go there, I've made amends long ago for poorly chosen postings, you and your's have not made good on the thousands of dollars you have to this point stolen from the members of this forum. I can and have said sorry for some of my words and choices, you on the other hand can't just say sorry for stealing tons of money from people and ruining the basis of pre-ordering on this forum. But I'll say it again cause it's clear you missed it the first time. I wish the best for your family and your continued recovery from physical aliments.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Shawn

[Mxyzptlk]

 

To the Canadian that was banned. Ax is sorry he stuck up for you and begged Albert to let you come back.

 

 

Me too.

[7800fan]

The reason I mentioned getting this locked, there is really not much point. Most of us knows that Ax had gone MIA after taking money and talking about it won't get him to come back. It he could, he would have already tried to make a post. Something is obviously keeping him away from the internet.

[goldenegg]

The reason I mentioned getting this locked, there is really not much point. Most of us knows that Ax had gone MIA after taking money and talking about it won't get him to come back. It he could, he would have already tried to make a post. Something is obviously keeping him away from the internet.

 

You apparently missed the lengthy post by his wife. Look at reply #93.

[AtariLeaf]

 

I would assume so. From what I know of him he's a good person and wouldn't set out to screw anyone over.

 

I guess I don't understand why he doesn't come back and post something. Even if it's a "My health is preventing me from working on this now" kind of message, I think most people would be satisfied. Poor health or not, you can bang out a message and post it in all of 5 minutes. If he can't manage that then he should appoint someone to be a spokesperson for him. Ignoring the situation completely is the wrong way to go.

 

I was under the impression that his wife was posting updates. EDIT - saw her post AFTER I wrote this. I remember reading a thread she either started or posted in that, I believe, updated people on things they purchased. This was around the time AX first left and yes I do remember reading about the bad health problems and flood issues as well as other things that piled up on the poor guy.

 

On another subject, I know first hand that it's hard to publicly accuse a member of not delivering on paid for goods when said member is a "popular" member of the community (and I find that they are usually popular because they sell and trade a lot or make interesting items for the community) Many years back, I did a trade with another member here who was popular and similarly had health issues. It was a simple trade for small items but after immediately fulfilling my side, months went by with nothing on his side coming back. Lots of health posts and excuses, PM's exchanged promising delivery, apologies, etc, with nothing materializing for months - this despite others seemingly loving this guy and constantly praising him for quick shipping. So one day I posted publicly about not getting the goods I was promised after post after post of others talking about getting their items, and boy did the shit storm of defense hit me. How dare I accuse this beloved member (who is also long gone BTW) and I should have more patience. Who am I to accuse this wonderful person? I'm an asshat for taking this public. Who cares if PM's haven't worked. When it comes to THIS member, no negative feedback is allowed.

 

Now I have empathy as much as the next guy and I told him that in PM's but it's hard to swallow when you're the only one not getting the goods you were promised while others are. The bottom line is I have nothing bad to say about AX, never had issue with him and the items I did buy from him arrived without incident and fairly quickly but I do notice that while some will be lambasted and raked over the coals for poor fulfillment of sales or trades, if the member is "popular" he is given a lot more leeway, sometimes to the detriment of the unfortunate person who's on the wrong end of a deal with them.

Edited April 10, 2015 by AtariLeaf