The Atari interview discussion thread

[Chris++]

I'm reading On the Edge right now (it was lent to me by my friend "Bally Alley" Adam). I'm finding it fascinating, partially because the C64 was my first computer. In spite of its occasionally shaky grammar, I highly recommend it to anyone who's interested in the early days; there's a lot of history about other pioneering computer companies as well.

 

I wish there were an equivalent book about the history of the Atari eight-bits specifically, based likewise on interviews. I had no experience with A8s for several years after the C64. (Or is there such a book...?)

 

 

Edited April 6, 2016 by Chris++

[fultonbot]

Yeah, yeah, yeah..."Atari did this wrong, Atari did that wrong..." The guys there must have done some things right, or this website wouldn't exist, for one thing. That mindset is just as imbalanced as the whole "Nolan Bushnell isn't cool after all" garbage that we've heard from a couple of his bitter old partners (and just as inaccurate, for that matter, as "the first personal computer was an Apple." Revisionism, anyone? ).

 

 

I understand. I was just trying to process it and start a conversation. For me it's always been a kind of "mourning" about Atari. It's very hard to explain why the company had such an affect on me, but I've spent 32 years trying to figure it out. These interviews the guys from the Antic Podcast are doing are amazing and cathartic. So many perspectives, so much insight. Questions are raised with one that are answered with another some never answered at all. All I can say is, "keep it up" Antic guys. I'll be listening and thinking, and processing. Thanks.

Edited April 6, 2016 by fultonbot

[Bryan]

I understand. I was just trying to process it and start a conversation. For me it's always been a kind of "mourning" about Atari. It's very hard to explain why the company had such an affect on me, but I've spent 32 years trying to figure it out. These interviews the guys from the Antic Podcast are doing are amazing and cathartic. So many perspectives, so much insight. Questions are raised with one that are answered with another some never answered at all. All I can say is, "keep it up" Antic guys. I'll be listening and thinking, and processing. Thanks.

I was 11 when I got an 800 (1981). I remember it as the most magical time of my life. So yeah, I get it too.

[fultonbot]

I was 11 when I got an 800 (1981). I remember it as the most magical time of my life. So yeah, I get it too.

 

I got mine at age 13 in 1983. We are the same age.

By the way, in 1983 I had no idea Atari was having any trouble financially, or anything else like that. All I knew was that the local computer store carried those "big boxes" for the 8-bit computers (I have three of them sitting behind me at work right now) with amazing versions of the (mostly) crappy arcade games I had on the VCS, and I wanted to play them badly. It was obvious to me that the computer was the future. Video and computer games made-up most of my entire world. Atari was at the center. It was inconceivable that just 6 months later it would pretty much disappear.

Edited April 6, 2016 by fultonbot

[Bryan]

Kevin/Randy,

 

How about this guy:

 

http://www.btstream.com/pietro/resume.html

 

I loved his game Nightraiders.

[kiwilove]

It was the Wild West back then, is generally the excuse given as to why people at the top of the companies not seeing the future of what was to come - but it all comes down to plain common sense. That it was all due to the creativity of the hardware and software designers, engineers etc who should have been valued more than what they did - their product that they created - they created the vision in hardware and software - and you needed more of their work to continue to prosper, whether it be a bigger library of titles or evolution of the hardware into the next generation.

When you are driven by profit/sales - ie. greed, things go willy nilly as to losing your focus and purpose.

 

While the interviews have been very good - not everyone interviewed will be able to recall the various details that happened back then - sadly. And there are those who can't or won't be interviewed.

One important thing to realise is that there were talented people not only at Atari but elsewhere - who are drawn to this new form of entertainment and activity - whether it be called home computers or videogaming at home and this was a new frontier happening inside peoples' homes and through their TVs - and it does affect your life in so many different ways.

 

Harvey

[kiwilove]

Another way to explain the downfall of Atari - is that it's motto should have been - "Quality Sells" and it is because it did not deliver on this, that consumers went elsewhere for their continued interest in home computers, etc. Going towards the Amiga, and SNES consoles and so on...

And it is because of the amazing capabilities of the Atari 400/800 etc hardware that can still be used and explored - that it deserves a revisiting to see how far it can be pushed? Or just create the kind of titles that was possible back then - but weren't.

 

Harvey

[fultonbot]

Another way to explain the downfall of Atari - is that it's motto should have been - "Quality Sells" and it is because it did not deliver on this, that consumers went elsewhere for their continued interest in home computers, etc. Going towards the Amiga, and SNES consoles and so on...

And it is because of the amazing capabilities of the Atari 400/800 etc hardware that can still be used and explored - that it deserves a revisiting to see how far it can be pushed? Or just create the kind of titles that was possible back then - but weren't.

 

Harvey

 

Yeah, I agree with the "Quality Sells" motto. I couple years ago I read all the Atari VCS game reviews in Arcade Alley and Electronic Games up until the month that the VCS version of Pac-Man was released. The VCS Pac-Man was the first game in EG that received an overtly negative review. Almost all games before that time were not "reviewed" as much as they were "enthusiastically described" in the magazines. So even if Pac-Man was not the worst game ever, and even if it did not "kill Atari" it was the first crack in the wall. The magazines moved from an "enthusiast press" to a "critical press" and the Atari was not ready to face that "marketing" could not trump "quality" going forward. IMHO of course.

Edited April 6, 2016 by fultonbot

[Savetz]

This interview comes with never-before-released assembly language source code. (Some assembly required.)

Darren Schebek, Envision character set editor

http://ataripodcast.libsyn.com/antic-interview-156-darren-schebek-envision-character-set-editor

 

Darren Schebek wrote Envision, a character set editor for the Atari 8-bit computers. It was published in Antic magazine’s software catalog in 1986. Envision cost $19.95: “Create giant, multi-screen, 8-way scrolling pictures. Build effortless animations (up to 128 frames at 10 speeds). ENVISION has over 50 commands giving you total control over the Atari’s 6 incredible text modes. On the 130XE, Envision supports 16 simultaneous fonts.” After we conducted this interview, Darren sent me the Envision source code, which is now available at the Internet Archive.

Darren later wrote two more games for the Atari: Death By Solitaire and Yahtzee.

He worked for Canadian software publisher Distinctive Software, where he wrote the Commodore 64 port of Road Raider (porting it from the Atari ST version), and later worked at Mindspan Technologies where he created the Commodore 64 version of Mondu's Fight Palace.

This interview took place on January 30, 2016.

Teaser quote:

“My dad would come back from work, and he’d visit computer shops and stuff. He’d bring home flyers for different computers. He brought home an Apple // flyer one day, and one day he brought home this Atari 800 flyer. And I’m looking at these two flyers, and I’m comparing these things, like, ‘I don’t get it. There’s no decision to be made here.’”

[Savetz]

dang, wish i knew you were going to interview jerome domurat. since he worked with dave staugas, i was hoping he'd be able to explain what the heck is up with the "dave staugas loves bea hablig" hidden message in atari TOS.

 

 

Jerome emailed an answer:

 

The "dave staugas loves bea hablig" message was put there by dave. No big mystery, he was dating ‘bea hablig’ at the time. I can see how her name seems like something strange, but it was simply a message of love to someone. Amazing to me that someone would ever find that message.

[Shawn Jefferson]

Another way to explain the downfall of Atari - is that it's motto should have been - "Quality Sells" and it is because it did not deliver on this, that consumers went elsewhere for their continued interest in home computers, etc. Going towards the Amiga, and SNES consoles and so on...

 

In the consumer space, I don't think "quality sells" is actually true, or at least maybe we have different definitions of quality, or there's some nuances there. The C64 was very poor quality, but it was just that step ahead technically, and cheaper, which allowed it to excel (IMO). I think in hindsight, Atari should have been pushing their technology forward as well as cutting cost, where it seems to me at least, that pre-Tramiel Atari didn't do either, and Tramiel Atari only did one of those. Pre-Warner Atari seemed to have it right for the time, but just couldn't keep going without more business acumen on board-they were destined to collapse under their own weight and success.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Shawn Jefferson

[kiwilove]

Quality does sell - in antiques this is very clear. The FCC regulations must have changed from the time of the Atari 400/800 and the C64 - how else could they get away with such a flimsy build quality.

The price wars was on because of the C-64 pricing - and it is only because of quality software did it seem to be value for your money. Also it's technical specs seemed to be one up on the Ataris.

The 2600 was to be only of a certain limited life span - so Atari had to carefully transition onto the next generation. You could say it was the poor quality of the 2600 games being released that was it's downfall? But I think it's more likely that it's time was over because of the better graphics of the new hardware on the market. And this pattern was to be repeated yet again, when the 16-bit hardware appeared with even better graphics and so on.

The hardware and software have to be of a perceived better quality to convert players to transition onto the next generation - and it can take up to 3 years to fully develop an extensive software library for any new hardware.

 

I always thought that the hardware differences in the 400/800 - the 600XL, 800XL, and 64XE 130XE were really not that much of an improvement over the original 400/800 design.

 

Harvey

[fultonbot]

I think Atari made some missteps that helped the C64 gain a foothold. In 1983 the 1200XL was an expensive dog, and when James Morgan became president, he paused production of the other XLs. They pretty much gave 1983 away to Commodore, and that was a very important year. The C64 was cheap, and Atari computers were hard to find. I recall looking with my dad for an 800XL for most of the fall and winter up until Xmas 1983. We finally found one a day before Xmas in one store Even if they were superior, Atari shot their computers in the foot. Quality is one thing, but price and availability are quite another.

Edited April 8, 2016 by fultonbot

[Chris++]

"The C64 was very poor quality"? I've never heard that one. That awesome computer and the Atari 400 (etc.) have complementary strengths and weaknesses; they come out even. Also, there are some amazing C64 games that are among my favorites, but which were never released for the Atari computers -- and vice versa. I'm happy that we have them both available these days, along with their huge libraries, for relatively little money (or none at all, if one uses emulators).

 

[fultonbot]

The latest crop of interviews have been very interesting. Nice work guys.

[adam242]

"The C64 was very poor quality"? I've never heard that one. That awesome computer and the Atari 400 (etc.) have complementary strengths and weaknesses; they come out even. Also, there are some amazing C64 games that are among my favorites, but which were never released for the Atari computers -- and vice versa. I'm happy that we have them both available these days, along with their huge libraries, for relatively little money (or none at all, if one uses emulators).

 

"Poor quality" here refers to the materials and construction of the machine, not its features or software library. It is pretty well documented that the 64 was very cheaply (not just inexpensively) made and suffered a high out-of-the-box failure rate.

[fultonbot]

"Poor quality" here refers to the materials and construction of the machine, not its features or software library. It is pretty well documented that the 64 was very cheaply (not just inexpensively) made and suffered a high out-of-the-box failure rate.

 

I recall my uncle, who was C64 nut, continually complaining that he had to return his machines because they did not work. He went on an on about how Tramiel made cheap crap. This was at least a year before Tramiel "bought" Atari. He warned me then that Atari would be "ruined" by Tramiel and his shoddy product. On the contrary, the only Atari machine I ever had that needed repair was my 1040ST...which was, curiously, was a Tramiel product.

Edited April 8, 2016 by fultonbot

[Chris++]

How funny. I had my first C64 for fifteen years and my second for ten. Maybe it depended partially on luck / where one's particular model was manufactured / other stuff like that.

 

Agreed; some awesome interviews lately.

 

 

 

[kiwilove]

http://www.mayhem64.co.uk/c64design.htm

 

This gives information about the design of the C-64 and also about the production problems with it. The C-64 was the A8's direct competitor - whereas the Atari 400 was technically superior to the Vic-20 - the same cannot be said about the C-64.

 

Harvey

[Savetz]

I uploaded a wav file of the cassette version of his Spy Vs. Spy game to https://archive.org/details/SpyVsSpyWordGameAtari— who wants to make a .CAS from that and test?

 

Alan Newman: Domination, Tutti Frutti, Hotel Alien

http://ataripodcast.libsyn.com/antic-interview-157-alan-newman-domination-tutti-frutti-hotel-alien

Alan Newman published several programs for the Atari 8-bit computers: Domination, a Hamurabi-style management game, was published by Atari Program Exchange. It first appeared in the Fall 1981 catalog, where it won first prize in the entertainment category. Next he created Tutti Frutti, an arcade-style game that was published by Adventure International. And Hotel Alien, a graphical adventure game published by Artworx. He also wrote Spy Vs. Spy — not the Mad Magazine game published by First Star Software; a word game that was to be published by PDI but didn't get wide release. Alan has sent me that program to archive, so it's now available online for the first time.

This interview took place on February 2, 2016.

Teaser quote:

"I wanted to move to California. I wanted to do this full time. But when I realized how much copying was out there, it became a bad idea."

[+Allan]

http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-spy-vs-spy_30534.html

 

Allan

[Lynxpro]

 

 

Jerome emailed an answer:

 

The "dave staugas loves bea hablig" message was put there by dave. No big mystery, he was dating ‘bea hablig’ at the time. I can see how her name seems like something strange, but it was simply a message of love to someone. Amazing to me that someone would ever find that message.

 

Has Dave Staugas been interviewed yet? That would be a fascinating interview since he started with Atari Inc and stayed through Corp. Programming for the 2600, ST [NEOchrome!], Jaguar, you name it.

 

I don't think he's on here and I haven't seen him listed as a member of the Atari Museum Facebook page.

 

And on side notes and outside of such an interview, him and Bryan could have quite a discussion on 2600 emulation on the Jaguar… and there's several 2600 enthusiasts who'd love to get a copy of his in-house 5-spider version of his 2600 Millipede game, especially in order to add native Trak-Ball support to it!

[Lynxpro]

 

I recall my uncle, who was C64 nut, continually complaining that he had to return his machines because they did not work. He went on an on about how Tramiel made cheap crap. This was at least a year before Tramiel "bought" Atari. He warned me then that Atari would be "ruined" by Tramiel and his shoddy product. On the contrary, the only Atari machine I ever had that needed repair was my 1040ST...which was, curiously, was a Tramiel product.

 

Funny that he didn't connect the dots in that consumers like him ruined Atari because they rewarded Tramiel's race-to-the-bottom pricing that traded quality at every turn and thus massively hurt companies - such as Atari - which did pride themselves on manufacturing a quality product.

[fultonbot]

 

Funny that he didn't connect the dots in that consumers like him ruined Atari because they rewarded Tramiel's race-to-the-bottom pricing that traded quality at every turn and thus massively hurt companies - such as Atari - which did pride themselves on manufacturing a quality product.

 

I'm really not sure why he chose Commodore over Atari. He was the only person I knew at the time who lived and worked in Silicon Valley, and the only person in our family who shared my brother and my interest in computers, and coached us along the way. He probably didn't buy an Atari because Atari computers might have been have been considered "toys" to the guys he worked with, or by himself. Or maybe he went to the store in 1983 and the Commodore 64 was the only thing on the shelf, so he bought it. I never asked him and he's dead now, but my cousin might know the answer. Now you have me intrigued. I'm going to have to ask him.

[fultonbot]

 

Jerome Domurat, artist and interface designer

http://ataripodcast.libsyn.com/antic-interview-154-jerome-domurat-artist-and-interface-designer

 

 

Kevin,

 

You did a great job on this one asking questions about the Atari ST. Were you an ST owner, or were you just "taking one for the team" to get the best interview? either way, well done sir.

 

-Steve