The Official Turbografx 16 Thread!

[CZroe]

I can't believe people are still upset about the lack of Keith Courage. The nostalgia for that game just doesn't make a bit of sense to me.

The game was just as bad then as it is today. I would not be exaggerating to say that I was infuriated by how bad it was and I feel that is a big reason why the system flopped. It's one thing not to have a pack-in that rivals Altered Beast, Sonic the Hedgehog, or Super Mario World, but I literally had more fun with Combat or 2600 Pac-Man.

It was another of the kind of lazy, uninspired, platformer that gamers were already tired of seeing on NES. Heck, it was generally worse. It was basically everything wrong with Xexyz, but stripped down to just the platforming with none of the gameplay variety.

It's possible Konami wanted to include it but it's based on an anime license and they might not have the rights. IMO, that's just another reason it was dumb to use it as a pack-in. I say "good riddance."

[Gentlegamer]

4 hours ago, GoldenWheels said:

I

Another former NEC staffer, who came on much later in the system's lifespan, has a different take: "Their idea was a dumb American stereotype: Bigger is better. That's all it is," says John Brandstetter, who joined NEC in 1991.

 

aka JOHNNY TURBO

 

[Zoyous]

2 hours ago, Gentlegamer said:

aka JOHNNY TURBO

 

Hey, I recognize that guy! He roughed me up real bad on the playground one day and kept shouting at me that TurboGrafx CD had Sherlock Holmes: Consulting Detective long before Sega CD ever did!

[Gentlegamer]

1 minute ago, Zoyous said:

Hey, I recognize that guy! He roughed me up real bad on the playground one day and kept shouting at me that TurboGrafx CD had Sherlock Holmes: Consulting Detective long before Sega CD ever did!

 

The FEKA version doesn't even compare!

[NE146]

2 hours ago, CZroe said:

I can't believe people are still upset about the lack of Keith Courage. The nostalgia for that game just doesn't make a bit of sense to me.

The game was just as bad then as it is today. I would not be exaggerating to say that I was infuriated by how bad it was and I feel that is a big reason why the system flopped. It's one thing not to have a pack-in that rivals Altered Beast, Sonic the Hedgehog, or Super Mario World, but I literally had more fun with Combat or 2600 Pac-Man.

It was another of the kind of lazy, uninspired, platformer that gamers were already tired of seeing on NES. Heck, it was generally worse. It was basically everything wrong with Xexyz, but stripped down to just the platforming with none of the gameplay variety.

It's possible Konami wanted to include it but it's based on an anime license and they might not have the rights. IMO, that's just another reason it was dumb to use it as a pack-in. I say "good riddance."

Wow that's pretty harsh. I was a totally seasoned gamer with a SMS & NES (and of course all my Atari stuff) when the TG16 with Keith Courage came out and AT THE TIME, it seemed like a totally legit / solid platformer to me with high def graphics, and I'm not even kidding.  'Course it didn't last too long once we finished it, and moved on to bigger better things but we totally didn't think it was shit, until much later.

[CZroe]

Wow that's pretty harsh. I was a totally seasoned gamer with a SMS & NES (and of course all my Atari stuff) when the TG16 with Keith Courage came out and AT THE TIME, it seemed like a totally legit / solid platformer to me with high def graphics, and I'm not even kidding. [emoji4] 'Course it didn't last too long once we finished it, and moved on to bigger better things but we totally didn't think it was shit, until much later. [emoji38]

I didn't get to experience it until around 1992/1993 when I was 11-13 years old, so I first experienced it right along side a library of MUCH better TG16 games. Still, I didn't have an SNES yet and had not played Genesis either so I was a fresh slate for the 16 bit experience. Still, I absolutely hated it... even back then.

The enemy spawning is down-right primitive (shamefully so) which is made even more obvious when they expect you to grind for money. What "enemy placement?" There is no thought to the intolerably bland level design. Other than the gravity switch early on, nothing interesting or new happens through the entire game unless you like progressively longer swords or think it's fun/creative to suddenly have conveyor belts in one stage. I just don't see anything to like about it... and never did.

Just look at the level design at the very first level in Super Mario Bros 3 and you see all kinds of smart design decisions that really make it feel crafted. For example, they start you with something familiar (coin blocks) but force you to get moving by throwing a Goomba at you. Very soon you've learned about jumping on top of blocks from beneath them, but you still are compelled to keep moving by the fireball-spitting Piranha Plant (nerfed in the GBA version). Next you are almost forced to learn about kicking shells into item blocks but if you miss it the first time you will almost surely learn the next time you play the stage, especially since you will have seen the block and likely wondered what's inside/how to get it. Next, you have a runway with a path of coins leading you into the sky. If you are curious enough this will eventually teach you that there are alternate paths that you can take by using the runway and a certain near-by power-up to fly. Neat! If you missed it with the Koopa she'll you might even go back to whip that question mark block on the ground after picking up your power-up slightly later power-up, and since the area should be clear of enemies now or when you continue on you might even learn to fly accidentally in the process. This will also teach you that the enemies don't just respawn randomly. Even the pile of blocks near the end of the stage isn't pointless, since you will find a switch if you poke around, and you'll learn the ramifications of them for when you encounter them later in the game. They even leave another secret in the sky for people who keep exploring. The final goal is even a mini-game in itself with the roulette though the meaning won't be clear right away.

I'm not saying Keith Courage needed to be a masterpiece on the level of SMB3 to deserve the nostalgia it gets, but I am saying that it looks like quite possibly the laziest designed platformer ever to get get so much undeserved attention. It's just BAD. Considering what else they could have chosen from the Japanese library in 1989 it almost feels like they picked the single worth thing they could... and yet some people loved it anyway. I'll never understand that.

If you were to judge on the merits of the pack-in: Many people, including me, fell in love with SMB before getting the NES, and that prompted our purchase. Similarly, Super Mario World was a great reason to get an SNES. In contrast, Keith Courage was a reason to get anything but a TG16. What were they thinking?! I was 8 years old at launch and if I had traded my Nintendo for that I probably would've cried myself to sleep. Thankfully I was exposed to a lot of great TG16 games along with it but that was a few years later.

[Eltigro]

Johnny Turbo?  Never heard of him...

[CatPix]

I haven't played the game but saw videos, and. I can't say if it's that bad, but certainly... why not including Bonk as a pack-in? It's colorful, play nice and it's silly. Maybe  I suppose it send a childish image, but Nintendo did, too.

 

And since it was commonplace BITD to later game, why not changing the few weird elements in Bonk to make it more palatable for US customers?

[CZroe]

I haven't played the game but saw videos, and. I can't say if it's that bad, but certainly... why not including Bonk as a pack-in? It's colorful, play nice and it's silly. Maybe  I suppose it send a childish image, but Nintendo did, too.
 
And since it was commonplace BITD to later game, why not changing the few weird elements in Bonk to make it more palatable for US customers?

Bonk was the main reason I wanted a TG16! Didn't even realize they made it for NES and GB until about 15 years ago. It would've made a great mascot. The music alone made it infinitely more appealing!

[+save2600]

^  ...and the music is about the only thing I feel nostalgic about Keith Courage. I actually sold TG-16's at Montgomery Ward when it was first released. New concept store in Chicago and the NEC guys would pop in from time to time. We had this groovy NEC kiosk set up with a video tape that showcased the rollout. Was a great little informercial of sorts:

 

 

 

Anyway, we had a working display too so kids could give the system a try. Keith Courage was the only game they could play. ha

 

I would have been 18/19yo during this time and already a seasoned gamer that owned several game systems and computers by then. Yes, Keith Courage was an extremely weak and disappointing pack-in to be sure.  

 

Bonk wasn't released by then of course, but Legendary Axe was. So was Blazing Lazers. And *that* would have made a superior pack-in. Hell, so would Victory Run for that matter... to "compete" with the 7800 that came with Pole Position II - which we also sold.  

[CatPix]

19 minutes ago, CZroe said:

1 hour ago, CatPix said:

I haven't played the game but saw videos, and. I can't say if it's that bad, but certainly... why not including Bonk as a pack-in? It's colorful, play nice and it's silly. Maybe  I suppose it send a childish image, but Nintendo did, too.
 
And since it was commonplace BITD to later game, why not changing the few weird elements in Bonk to make it more palatable for US customers?

Bonk was the main reason I wanted a TG16! Didn't even realize they made it for NES and GB until about 15 years ago. It would've made a great mascot. The music alone made it infinitely more appealing!

PC-Kid in Japan was their mascot. In fact, he is named in Japanese PC-Ghengin (PC-Kid) which you can notice, it said almost like "PC-Engine".

It's a quite curious thing that NEC USA decided not to capitalize on Bonk.

[CZroe]

PC-Kid in Japan was their mascot. In fact, he is named in Japanese PC-Ghengin (PC-Kid) which you can notice, it said almost like "PC-Engine".
It's a quite curious thing that NEC USA decided not to capitalize on Bonk.

Well, they kinda did later on... just not at the crucial launch window when they really needed to make a splash. After all, Bonk literally introduced the 3-in-1 Gate of Thunder disc included with the TurboDuo ("Me, Bonk. You, Player. Let's play.") and the other two games on that disc were Bonk games. The disc and intro were a North American exclusive.

He was used in a lot of the promo material for the TG16 but that was really when they were blowing it out and dumping the excess inventory with a bunch of free games. Writing was already on the wall though they tried to revive it with the Duo.

Bonk got renamed for each platform he was released on in Japan and they usually tried to make it sound like the console. He was also BC Kid, GB Kid, etc. As a potential mascot, I think I prefer the name "Bonk."

[+Black_Tiger]

On 8/9/2019 at 3:51 PM, CatPix said:

I haven't played the game but saw videos, and. I can't say if it's that bad, but certainly... why not including Bonk as a pack-in? It's colorful, play nice and it's silly. Maybe  I suppose it send a childish image, but Nintendo did, too.

 

And since it was commonplace BITD to later game, why not changing the few weird elements in Bonk to make it more palatable for US customers?

PC Genjin came out just over a year after the TG-16. When Bonk's Adventure was near release, there was a major ad campaign for it. I had a couple of non-game playing adults ask me about it after they saw the TV commercial.

 

Bonk did have the weirder stuff changed, as did the sequels and Air Zonk.

[DragonGrafx-16]

I have PC Denjin: Punkic Cyborgs... so you are saying that Air Zonk was made less weird? If that's so it's a shame. Bring on the weirdness!

9 minutes ago, Black_Tiger said:

PC Genjin came out just over a year after the TG-16. When Bonk's Adventure was near release, there was a major ad campaign for it. I had a couple of non-game playing adults ask me about it after they saw the TV commercial.

 

Bonk did have the weirder stuff changed, as did the sequels and Air Zonk.

 

[Gentlegamer]

23 hours ago, save2600 said:

^  ...and the music is about the only thing I feel nostalgic about Keith Courage. I actually sold TG-16's at Montgomery Ward when it was first released. New concept store in Chicago and the NEC guys would pop in from time to time. We had this groovy NEC kiosk set up with a video tape that showcased the rollout. Was a great little informercial of sorts:

 

 

 

Anyway, we had a working display too so kids could give the system a try. Keith Courage was the only game they could play. ha

 

I would have been 18/19yo during this time and already a seasoned gamer that owned several game systems and computers by then. Yes, Keith Courage was an extremely weak and disappointing pack-in to be sure.  

 

Bonk wasn't released by then of course, but Legendary Axe was. So was Blazing Lazers. And *that* would have made a superior pack-in. Hell, so would Victory Run for that matter... to "compete" with the 7800 that came with Pole Position II - which we also sold.  

[NE146]

If I recall correctly.. it was Keith Courage pack in. Then you could buy Blazing Lazers, Legendary Axe, and Victory Run. I might be missing another but that was basically it as far as the launch. I stick with my story that Keith Courage was a relatively impressive game AT THE TIME of the launch. Don't forget, so was Altered Beast! We were blown away at how much more advanced Altered Beast was than anything on the NES. Ditto for Keith Courage. Of course you had to buy another game and that for me was Blazing Lazers & Legendary Axe which were obviously better than Keith Courage.. but KC still did still feel 100% "next gen". Just saying.

[Eltigro]

Reasonably close to my early Turbo experience...

 

Got mine for Christmas.  I had told my dad and step-mom about there being a package with a mail in rebate type card for a free game.  They told my mom what they were getting me in case she wanted to get me a game to go with it.  My mom knows nothing about video games and told me so I could pick out a game I would like.  I picked Legendary Axe.  When I got the system, I sent in the free card and got Blazing Lazers.  So my first three games were also Keith Courage, Blazing Lazers, and Legendary Axe.  lol

 

Edit:  And yeah, my mom spoiled my surprise, but it was for the best.  lol...  She told me I had to act surprised.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Eltigro

[Austin]

On 8/9/2019 at 1:27 PM, CZroe said:

 It was basically everything wrong with Xexyz

But nothing's wrong with Xexyz.

[CZroe]

But nothing's wrong with Xexyz. [emoji14]

-Derivitive, borderline-fake, adventure element (just go in every door; near-zero backtracking)
-Tired "save the princess" plot-excuse me, "space princess"
-Boring platform segments with nothing novel

It did successfully combine two gameplay types (action platformer and shmup) but it was aiming for a third (adventure) and fell short. It thinks it's Zelda II plus R-Type plus Turrican but it's really just "meh." People say it's a hidden gem, which is a bit more than I would say. I agree that it deserved to be better known but I still think it's over-rated.

If Keith Courage had a shmup in place of the boring platform parts it would've changed everything for me... it also would have had to ditch the licensing. They somehow made both action platforming segments feel uninspired with insipidly boring level design then made the terrible attempt at adventure elements even worse.

I think I dislike both of these games even more than I would if there weren't so many people praising them. Weird.

[Austin]

36 minutes ago, CZroe said:

-Derivitive, borderline-fake, adventure element (just go in every door; near-zero backtracking)
-Tired "save the princess" plot-excuse me, "space princess"
-Boring platform segments with nothing novel

Pretty arbitrary complaints for the most part (I'd argue against the boring platform segments part, talking about some power-ups that do make them pretty novel), but hey, to each their own.

 

I certainly don't put Keith Courage on a pedestal and I really don't see many people doing so these days (there will always be exceptions, but I haven't seen that be the common perspective with KC).

[NE146]

Yeah don't confuse me saying I felt like Keith Courage had all the markings of a high definition "next generation" game in that awesome Summer of 1987, to me praising it. If someone asked me right now if I thought KC was a good game I would say no. ?

 

Like I don't think Colecovision Donkey Kong is an exceptionally good port of DK today. However when it was released I felt like the arcade gods had landed and brought us to paradise.

[Austin]

1 minute ago, NE146 said:

Don't confuse me saying I felt like Keith Courage was a next generation game at the time, to me "praising" it. If someone asked me right now if I thought KC was a good game I would say no.

I wish I had experienced Keith Courage when it was new just to know how I would have reacted to it. I didn't know anyone with a Turbo Grafx and saw no demo units, so by the time I finally got to play one we were already partway into the 32-bit era and I had a lot to compare it to. I WAS impressed by Altered Beast in 1989 (the tiny bit I got to see it at a Toys R Us demo unit), but Keith Courage's real-world stages look pretty drab compared to the Mega Man II or Ninja Gaiden I was playing on the NES at the time. I wonder what I would have thought about the transformation levels in particular, they are definitely more impressive and were probably pretty decent by 1989 standards.

[CZroe]

Pretty arbitrary complaints for the most part (I'd argue against the boring platform segments part, talking about some power-ups that do make them pretty novel), but hey, to each their own.
 
I certainly don't put Keith Courage on a pedestal and I really don't see many people doing so these days (there will always be exceptions, but I haven't seen that be the common perspective with KC).

Did you miss BitHead1000's meltdown? He seemed most angry about Keith Courage and Legendary Axe being left out. Totally agree about Legendary Axe but getting worked up over Keith Courage makes me chuckle. Yes, I know he was exaggerating but he was genuinely upset about it and the man had a giant poster of the TurboChip art on the wall of his man cave.

He's definitely not the only one saying it should have been included. Only way I would've included it if I were in charge would be if it cost me and the company exactly nothing. Seeing that there is an anime license attached, I don't think it would have cost them nothing. Perhaps if they only released the North American version but who knows if that was still encumbered with licensing or not.

I get that there is nostalgia for it just because everyone had it, but it just doesn't hold any value for a newer audience and I certainly don't feel like revisiting it. I can't be the only one.

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

1 hour ago, CZroe said:

Did you miss BitHead1000's meltdown? He seemed most angry about Keith Courage and Legendary Axe being left out. 

Decided to look up his video, after about 9 minutes in I stopped after realizing this video is going to be 30 minutes too long. 

[CZroe]

Decided to look up his video, after about 9 minutes in I stopped after realizing this video is going to be 30 minutes too long. 

Watched it mostly at 2x speed myself.