The Official Turbografx 16 Thread!

[Steven Pendleton]

On 5/20/2020 at 1:36 AM, CZroe said:

LOL!

I don't really know what you're supposed to call it either. I've seen the whole set called TurboGrafx-CD but I just call the IFU-equivalent "Turbo-CD Dock." Even in America they started officially calling TurboChips "HuCards" so why shouldn't we do the same with the dock/IFU?

Yeah, I'm not sure what's up with the US names of the accessories. I'm probably just going to continue using the Japanese names for everything, not only because that's how I learned of their existences, but also because the US stuff is basically the same thing but with a different look. Speaking of that, I still find it really funny that they designed a completely new motherboard for the TurboGrafx-16 instead of using the one for the PC Engine. I guess you'd have to make a new motherboard since the pins in the back are pretty far away from the controller port on the TG-16, but there are a lot of people on the internet who falsely say that the inside of the system is mostly empty.

 

They really should have kept the PC Engine's design for the US market and made R-Type the pack-in game. Maybe painting it black to make it look "more serious" or something might have helped, but I think the CoreGrafx launched about the same time as the TurboGrafx did, so they could have just kept the CoreGrafx design. I forget which one launched first, though.

On 5/20/2020 at 1:49 AM, cybercylon said:

I have to agree that these rubbish products tick me off (and some of them look the same even though they have a different name on them). I know one of those Hyperkin products (I think it was that green composite one) doesn't even have any circuitry in them to prevent any current from feeding back into the console. So in that case, there is a risk of a fried console along with the joys of a crap picture.

 

I guess it wouldn't bother me as much if these products were marketed for exactly what they are and people know what the are getting into. I am sure there are some people that want a simple solution just to plug something in for a quick fix and don't give a crap about the video out. That's fine. But some of these products seem to be marketed as an ideal solution. Eh.. not so much.

I had a Hyperkin Genesis 2 cable that I bought to use on my Mega Drive (using the 32X, of course, since the stupid cable's adaptor is the wrong shape and might damage the output jack) as a temporary way to use the system while I was waiting for my OSSC to arrive. That cable is a piece of crap, and I know it's a piece of crap because it didn't work on my PC monitor. Or my friend's TV. Or his PC monitor. The only thing I can recommend Hyperkin for is your local landfill.

[+GoldenWheels]

8 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

 

 

They really should have kept the PC Engine's design for the US market and made R-Type the pack-in game. Maybe painting it black to make it look "more serious" or something might have helped, but I think the CoreGrafx launched about the same time as the TurboGrafx did, so they could have just kept the CoreGrafx design. I forget which one launched first, though.

 

I agree on the former 1000% (the time it would have saved them alone in beating Sega to market would have been huge) but always used to argue the latter, which is an argument I've seen before. It's an excellent version of the game, but putting a hard as balls (and somewhat weird) shooter in there as the pack in the 80s....I think it would have gone over like a fart in church.

 

(I was actually questioning to myself if a shooter was ever a pack in game for any system, then I remembered SMS and Astro Warrior...but that also had a light gun game on it, so I consider that more of a "value cart", which I do understand as a pack in. "Son, it's got TWO games inside!!!)

 

Again, love turbob R-Type but it's too niche/hardcore to be a good pack in IMO.

[NE146]

I'm not sure if R-Type could have been the pack-in game because it took a few months before it came out after the TG16 launch. Granted.. they could have just been holding it back with some pre-determined schedule, but I always just assumed it was because they had to change it to fit on one Hucard vs. two like the jap one.

[CZroe]

Well, they bundled it with a shooter in Europe (PAL Turbografx includes Blazing Lazers).

[+Black_Tiger]

6 hours ago, CZroe said:

Well, they bundled it with a shooter in Europe (PAL Turbografx includes Blazing Lazers).

There never was an actual pack-in. The OEM TurboChip and photocopy manual was one from an assortment of games.

 

I think that the early ones that trickled out of Spain were reported to have included BlaZing LaZers. Mine from the UK came with Alien Crush and the OEM games also got sold by liquidators separately as NOS.

[+Black_Tiger]

16 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

They really should have kept the PC Engine's design for the US market and made R-Type the pack-in game.

I made a mock-up a while back of the TG-16 with R-Type as the pack-in in the style of the Genesis box:

 

 

 

 

 

I think that the Genesis box design, particularly showing a photo of arcade quality visuals at home and emphasizing that an actual established arcade hit was included, was one of the big things that led to modest early success and brand recognition.

 

PC Engine style HuCards with nice coverart would have also gone a long way.

 

Edited May 22, 2020 by Black_Tiger
Added last sentence.

[zetastrike]

Does anyone else find the fire buttons on the PC Engine controller to be not that great?  I've owned several over the years and they always have this erratic responsiveness to them.  Like sometimes they'll engage when I press them down and again when I release them.  Other times they don't respond at all or with a delay.  I have some NES rubber membranes coming in soon from console5 and I hope to try swapping them with the originals and seeing if that helps.

[Steven Pendleton]

2 hours ago, zetastrike said:

Does anyone else find the fire buttons on the PC Engine controller to be not that great?  I've owned several over the years and they always have this erratic responsiveness to them.  Like sometimes they'll engage when I press them down and again when I release them.  Other times they don't respond at all or with a delay.  I have some NES rubber membranes coming in soon from console5 and I hope to try swapping them with the originals and seeing if that helps.

I had this on my Shuttle controller's II button. Cleaned it with alcohol and it works fine now.

[DragonGrafx-16]

My orange CoreGrafx controller works great...

[Steven Pendleton]

15 hours ago, GoldenWheels said:

I agree on the former 1000% (the time it would have saved them alone in beating Sega to market would have been huge) but always used to argue the latter, which is an argument I've seen before. It's an excellent version of the game, but putting a hard as balls (and somewhat weird) shooter in there as the pack in the 80s....I think it would have gone over like a fart in church.

 

(I was actually questioning to myself if a shooter was ever a pack in game for any system, then I remembered SMS and Astro Warrior...but that also had a light gun game on it, so I consider that more of a "value cart", which I do understand as a pack in. "Son, it's got TWO games inside!!!)

 

Again, love turbob R-Type but it's too niche/hardcore to be a good pack in IMO.

The thing with R-Type is that I'd put it in there to show people that the system can actually do relatively excellent arcade ports (I REALLY hate the scrolling, though, probably because I have been playing the arcade version for about 10 years before I played the PC Engine version), which is something that people apparently cared about then, hence pack-in Altered Beast. One of the guys who was actually working at NEC or Hudson or whatever company at the time said the same thing about R-Type as well. Basically, it's there as more of a tech demo to impress people with the system's abilities than anything else. Of course, if the consumer ends up liking the game, I guess that's good.

 

15 hours ago, NE146 said:

I'm not sure if R-Type could have been the pack-in game because it took a few months before it came out after the TG16 launch. Granted.. they could have just been holding it back with some pre-determined schedule, but I always just assumed it was because they had to change it to fit on one Hucard vs. two like the jap one.

R-Type I and II were released on PC Engine well over a year before the TurboGrafx-16 was released, but I would not be surprised if the delay was related to combining I and II.

 

7 hours ago, Black_Tiger said:

I made a mock-up a while back of the TG-16 with R-Type as the pack-in in the style of the Genesis box:

 

 

 

 

 

I think that the Genesis box design, particularly showing a photo of arcade quality visuals at home and emphasizing that an actual established arcade hit was included, was one of the big things that led to modest early success and brand recognition.

 

PC Engine style HuCards with nice coverart would have also gone a long way.

 

That is super tasty. I don't remember how well the Genesis did with Altered Beast, but I think seeing this would have been very interesting to consumers at that time.

[+GoldenWheels]

1 hour ago, Steven Pendleton said:

The thing with R-Type is that I'd put it in there to show people that the system can actually do relatively excellent arcade ports (I REALLY hate the scrolling, though, probably because I have been playing the arcade version for about 10 years before I played the PC Engine version), which is something that people apparently cared about then, hence pack-in Altered Beast. One of the guys who was actually working at NEC or Hudson or whatever company at the time said the same thing about R-Type as well. Basically, it's there as more of a tech demo to impress people with the system's abilities than anything else. Of course, if the consumer ends up liking the game, I guess that's good.

 

 

I dunno, I know that was something marketed to ("Acade series") but I guess I'm unsure how much that mattered to most. As a kid being marketed to at the time, I had been in few arcades, and never seen Altered Beast. Mario had already kind of changed the idea that video game machines were just ways to take arcade games home, new home IPs were a big deal. So far as the philosophy of tech demo style thinking...Altered Beast is well remembered but not well loved as a pack in, and was replaced with a mascot platformer (and other pack ins) ASAP, that did WAY better.  Atari tried to do the "look what we can do with Polygons ma!" pack in as well with Cybermorph...it was a tremendous disaster.

 

When you have ONE game to start with, IMO it should be one people want to play, not one people want to WATCH or just looks cool on a commercial. And it should be EASY enough for most players to make SOME progress, be it your mom or your sister or your dad.

 

Even the genre just strikes me as all wrong for a pack in. Shewty-shewts just seem like awful pack ins.

[Steven Pendleton]

7 minutes ago, GoldenWheels said:

I dunno, I know that was something marketed to ("Acade series") but I guess I'm unsure how much that mattered to most. As a kid being marketed to at the time, I had been in few arcades, and never seen Altered Beast. Mario had already kind of changed the idea that video game machines were just ways to take arcade games home, new home IPs were a big deal. So far as the philosophy of tech demo style thinking...Altered Beast is well remembered but not well loved as a pack in, and was replaced with a mascot platformer (and other pack ins) ASAP, that did WAY better.  Atari tried to do the "look what we can do with Polygons ma!" pack in as well with Cybermorph...it was a tremendous disaster.

 

When you have ONE game to start with, IMO it should be one people want to play, not one people want to WATCH or just looks cool on a commercial. And it should be EASY enough for most players to make SOME progress, be it your mom or your sister or your dad.

 

Even the genre just strikes me as all wrong for a pack in. Shewty-shewts just seem like awful pack ins.

Well, the difference between R-Type and Altered Beast is that R-Type is actually fun and people still enjoy PC Engine R-Type today. Meanwhile, nobody cares about Altered Beast, and dropping it in favour of Sonic remains one of the best marketing strategies in the industry's history. R-Type is difficult, but as a technical showpiece for early PC Engine games, it is quite impressive and one of the best games available for the TurboGrafx around the time of its launch. It's also much easier than Legendary Axe, as well, which was a launch title for the system, and Keith Courage is Keith Courage.

 

As for shooters being back pack-ins, I heard that the only way to get the US version of Gate of Thunder was to buy the TurboDuo. Not sure if it was sold separately. Perhaps someone who knows more than I do about the US systems (which is pretty much everybody) will know more.

[+GoldenWheels]

9 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

Well, the difference between R-Type and Altered Beast is that R-Type is actually fun and people still enjoy PC Engine R-Type today. Meanwhile, nobody cares about Altered Beast, and dropping it in favour of Sonic remains one of the best marketing strategies in the industry's history. R-Type is difficult, but as a technical showpiece for early PC Engine games, it is quite impressive and one of the best games available for the TurboGrafx around the time of its launch. It's also much easier than Legendary Axe, as well, which was a launch title for the system, and Keith Courage is Keith Courage.

 

As for shooters being back pack-ins, I heard that the only way to get the US version of Gate of Thunder was to buy the TurboDuo. Not sure if it was sold separately. Perhaps someone who knows more than I do about the US systems (which is pretty much everybody) will know more.

R-type is fun for people willing to put in the time to learn it, and who were willing to put up with the difficulty. I play it now and then and while it's enjoyable, virtually every playthrough ends in frustration (You died, there go your weapons, have fun with that guy!).

 

There's no arguing it's an actual good game whereas Altered Beast really isn't, I get that...but I'd argue even Altered Beast is a better pack in...two player simultaneous play, simple game mechanics, easy play. Pack ins IMO are supposed to appeal to the whole family and be approachable.

 

Gates of Thunder TD pack in was on a disc with Bonks 1&2 and Bomberman. I do believe it was available singly.

 

 

[Steven Pendleton]

41 minutes ago, GoldenWheels said:

R-type is fun for people willing to put in the time to learn it, and who were willing to put up with the difficulty. I play it now and then and while it's enjoyable, virtually every playthrough ends in frustration (You died, there go your weapons, have fun with that guy!).

 

There's no arguing it's an actual good game whereas Altered Beast really isn't, I get that...but I'd argue even Altered Beast is a better pack in...two player simultaneous play, simple game mechanics, easy play. Pack ins IMO are supposed to appeal to the whole family and be approachable.

 

Gates of Thunder TD pack in was on a disc with Bonks 1&2 and Bomberman. I do believe it was available singly.

 

 

Yeah, Altered Beast being multiplayer is a huge advantage. I know arcade R-Type has non-simultaneous multiplayer, but I'm not sure about PC Engine R-Type. Non-simultaneous sucks, though, which is why R-Type Dimensions has simultaneous multiplayer and it's GLORIOUS! Makes the game way harder, though, since the amount and type of power ups don't change, so for a while, both players are at 1/2 strength of what you'd be if you played alone unless one person takes all of the power ups.

 

Anyway, I personally do not really like PC Engine R-Type because of the scrolling and will take the arcade version or the unfinished SuperGrafx port over the PC Engine version without question, and ESPECIALLY over that terrible R-Type Complete CD with its horrible music. I almost bought it when I learned that it exists and I am extremely glad that I did not.

 

I am really not sure what the deal with the TurboDuo's pack-ins was. I guess it had a few different pack-ins that varied or something like that. Single and compilation versions of Gate of Thunder, Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective, and some other stuff which may or may not have been swapped for other games, and I think you got like 4 pack-in games, which was and still is ridiculously generous, especially given their quality. I personally do not like Bonk very much, but I respect it and understand that it's a good game and I can see why people might like it.

 

Edit: I just remembered that I think it was the regular CD-ROM2 + IFU combination that had all of the different pack-ins, not the TurboDuo! Disregard!

Edited May 22, 2020 by Steven Pendleton

[NE146]

Yeah I really wonder.  R-Type was still a cool game but we already had R-Type at home on the SMS. Obviously the PCE/TG16 version was faar superior, but the point is it was still just R-Type, an arcade game that had been around a few years already. I was 20 years old at the time and remember that being my exact impression. i.e. "the graphics are amazing!!! It's just like the arcade game", then it went relatively unplayed. Compare that to Altered Beast.. we played the heck out of it. What was the difference? Altered Beast was new!   So yeah I think maybe Blazing Lazers or even Legendary Axe, i.e. games that were new and were exciting at the time of launch, would have made for better pack-ins. But who knows really.

[+GoldenWheels]

47 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

 

 

Anyway, I personally do not really like PC Engine R-Type because of the scrolling and will take the arcade version or the unfinished SuperGrafx port over the PC Engine version without question, and ESPECIALLY over that terrible R-Type Complete CD with its horrible music. I almost bought it when I learned that it exists and I am extremely glad that I did not.

 

 

Is the PC-E scrolling different from the American version? Is there parallax missing or something?

[Steven Pendleton]

2 minutes ago, GoldenWheels said:

Is the PC-E scrolling different from the American version? Is there parallax missing or something?

I mean the vertical scrolling that's on all PC Engine and TurboGrafx versions of the game aside from Chris Covell's SuperGrafx port.

[Steven Pendleton]

I can't believe that I didn't realize that I could do this before, but I realized that I can capture footage of how bad the PC Engine mini's turbo controller's d-pad is. Behold, footage of me rotating the d-pad in Windows. Notice how many times the diagonal up right indicator appears, as well as how often the diagonals register in general.

 

 

[roots.genoa]

8 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

nobody cares about Altered Beast

I do! ?

[Steven Pendleton]

4 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

I do! ?

I forgot you like this game! I actually forgot that it's on PC Engine until just now, too. Maybe I'll buy a copy some day. I see it all the time, but it's a bit too expensive (3000~4000 yen) for what you get, I think, but maybe I will get it later.

[CZroe]

I forgot you like this game! I actually forgot that it's on PC Engine until just now, too. Maybe I'll buy a copy some day. I see it all the time, but it's a bit too expensive (3000~4000 yen) for what you get, I think, but maybe I will get it later.

Just get the CD-ROM² version.  

Just kidding. It's terrible! I have both CD-ROM² versions and they are both terrible. HuCard version is much better!

 

 

[+Black_Tiger]

On 5/22/2020 at 5:54 AM, Steven Pendleton said:

I mean the vertical scrolling that's on all PC Engine and TurboGrafx versions of the game aside from Chris Covell's SuperGrafx port.

The arcade version runs in an unusually high vertical resolution. The only way that Super Grafx version technically doesn't scroll is because 16+ pixels of height from each stage have been removed. Even the Playstation couldn't display the full stage without the power bar overlapping the stage/play area.

[Steven Pendleton]

11 hours ago, CZroe said:

Just get the CD-ROM² version.  

Just kidding. It's terrible! I have both CD-ROM² versions and they are both terrible. HuCard version is much better!

 

 

Yeah, I will probably try to find the card version if I decide to get it. Interesting that both this and Bonk 3 are better on card than CD.

 

7 hours ago, Black_Tiger said:

The arcade version runs in an unusually high vertical resolution. The only way that Super Grafx version technically doesn't scroll is because 16+ pixels of height from each stage have been removed. Even the Playstation couldn't display the full stage without the power bar overlapping the stage/play area.

Interesting... time to do some comparisons.

[DragonGrafx-16]

There's a couple copies of PC Engine R-Type on ebay right now for around $9... but ugh cause it's shipping from Japan it would cost more than the game is worth just to ship it. lol

Edited May 24, 2020 by DragonGrafx-16

[CZroe]

Does anyone know where I can find high resolution or vector images of various PCE/TG16 controller designs? ...like, just the art and not the whole controller. I want to print and cut replacement label stickers for the clear RetroGameRestore controller shell.

 

I imagine this is something I'm going to have to figure out how to make myself but figured I'd ask first just in case.