The Official Turbografx 16 Thread!

[Monk]

Why is there an official Turbografx-16-thread, but not an official PC Engine-thread? After all, PC Engine is the original, Turbografx-16 is just an american bastardized version, like a mutilated, butchered thing, just like NES compared to the Famicom.

 

Just in case someone doesn't know, the original Famicom has a microphone and ability for amazing sound due to special chips in games, that added more channels and waveforms and even FM synthesis and whatnot. Famicom is also beautiful design - the only drawback is that the controllers don't detach.

 

The American (and European, for that matter) version of NES is an ugly, grey box with all these special features removed.

 

Don't even get me started on Super Famicom vs. Super Nintendō Entertainment System .. could the american version look more like a childish, useless toy?

 

It's not a big thing, I guess, but it IS a sort of disrespectful blasphemy when you have a thread for only a mutilated, ugly monstrosity, but not the original, wonderful, epic beauty of a system.

[Steven Pendleton]

16 hours ago, turboxray said:

I used to game a lot on emulators because it was more of a pain to setup the real hardware/display/etc (I still had the real hardware). But now I do almost all my gaming on the real hardware via the retrotink 5x. I only used emulators for debugging or hacking. For hardware that I don't have, I use a MisTer unit.. not software emulation.

Yeah, I am the same way. I never managed to get a lot of the PS1 and PS2 emulators that I wanted to use to work properly. This was like 10 years ago or so, and mostly just because I had the hardware but not the games. Now that I have all of the games, not much point in messing around with emulators. I wish my MiSTer worked properly. I really want to play some arcade games without messing around with MAME, which I have had some recent frustration with when I tried R-Type Leo on it maybe 6 months ago (although I did eventually get it fixed), but my MiSTer decided that it doesn't want to respond to most controller inputs anymore, so...

53 minutes ago, Monk said:

Why is there an official Turbografx-16-thread, but not an official PC Engine-thread? After all, PC Engine is the original, Turbografx-16 is just an american bastardized version, like a mutilated, butchered thing, just like NES compared to the Famicom.

 

Just in case someone doesn't know, the original Famicom has a microphone and ability for amazing sound due to special chips in games, that added more channels and waveforms and even FM synthesis and whatnot. Famicom is also beautiful design - the only drawback is that the controllers don't detach.

 

The American (and European, for that matter) version of NES is an ugly, grey box with all these special features removed.

 

Don't even get me started on Super Famicom vs. Super Nintendō Entertainment System .. could the american version look more like a childish, useless toy?

 

It's not a big thing, I guess, but it IS a sort of disrespectful blasphemy when you have a thread for only a mutilated, ugly monstrosity, but not the original, wonderful, epic beauty of a system.

[+jgkspsx]

5 hours ago, Monk said:

Why is there an official Turbografx-16-thread, but not an official PC Engine-thread? After all, PC Engine is the original, Turbografx-16 is just an american bastardized version, like a mutilated, butchered thing, just like NES compared to the Famicom.

No, it’s not bastardized at all. The Turbografx is functionally identical to the PC Engine. You don’t lose any functionality or capabilities like you do with the NES. It’s just a different case, a reverse card pinout, and a different (but fully compatible) controller port. The changes were not for the better, but other than the extra plastic, the need for a card converter, and weird shape without the Turbobooster they weren’t for the worse. I would kind of like a CoreGrafx, but I don’t have an NA to JP converter, only the other way. The JP console has a stronger region lock and looks for a chip that the US cards don’t have.

 

No, if you want to talk about a bastardized, mutilated, deficient model, you have to look at my beloved PC Engine Shuttle.

 

Of course, with the Turbo Duo, North America got exactly the same system as Japan except for the card pinout. Curse you, region locking!

 

(Also the North American Super Nintendo has 100% more purple than the EU or JP versions so it’s automatically the better design. Sorry, I don’t make the rules.)

[Zoyous]

The PC Engine is a technical marvel and a thing of beauty for sure. But it's only when comparing the two that the TurboGrafx really suffers. Taken on its own design merits, the TG-16 is not a bad-looking console at all. I even like the font they used for the system.

 

I don't know that the Famicom is a better design than the NES. The main drawback is that the controllers were hard-wired, weren't they? Also, the color scheme would look at home on a fast food restaurant. Explanations include "it was the CEO's favorite color" as well as "it was the cheapest color plastic available at the time" (why not both?). I think the NES is a clever design although its unique cartridge mechanism apparently wasn't physical robust enough to function well decades later.

 

The Super Famicom is definitely a more elegant design than the SNES. I suppose they were trying to continue/evolve the boxy design cues of the NES but in the end it just looks like a North American designer had to put their stamp on things and came up with something simply worse than the original. Even removing it from the context of comparison... well, it's what's inside that counts, right? ?

[+jeremiahjt]

7 hours ago, Monk said:

Why is there an official Turbografx-16-thread, but not an official PC Engine-thread? After all, PC Engine is the original, Turbografx-16 is just an american bastardized version, like a mutilated, butchered thing, just like NES compared to the Famicom.

 

Just in case someone doesn't know, the original Famicom has a microphone and ability for amazing sound due to special chips in games, that added more channels and waveforms and even FM synthesis and whatnot. Famicom is also beautiful design - the only drawback is that the controllers don't detach.

 

The American (and European, for that matter) version of NES is an ugly, grey box with all these special features removed.

 

Don't even get me started on Super Famicom vs. Super Nintendō Entertainment System .. could the american version look more like a childish, useless toy?

 

It's not a big thing, I guess, but it IS a sort of disrespectful blasphemy when you have a thread for only a mutilated, ugly monstrosity, but not the original, wonderful, epic beauty of a system.

Well this is a US based website with probably well over half of the users being American. So most of the users here grew up with the names NES, TurboGrafx-16, and Super NES.  I am sure there are plenty of Japan based message boards where they use Famicom, PC Engine, and Super Famicom. You just have to find them.

[NE146]

Well speaking as someone who had much easier access to buy the japanese consoles at the time, (Famicom, PC Engine, etc.) what did I want? Why, the SUPERIOR US console versions of course! I had to basically go to the states to get them, which worked out fine since I went out for college. 

 

Well actually I didn't consider them superior (I had no idea of the Famicom vs. NES technical differences back in 1987, and probably neither did most of you ? )  but really the main reason was I wanted my games to be in english. They really did play the same games at the end of the day. I had a number of Famicom and PC-Engine hucards and played them fine using adaptors on my NES and Turbografx-16.

[+jgkspsx]

4 hours ago, Zoyous said:

I think the NES is a clever design although its unique cartridge mechanism apparently wasn't physical robust enough to function well decades later.

It wasn't physically robust enough to function when it was brand new if the humidity and the cart connector's cleanliness were not both just right ? 

 

I prefer the American SNES by a wide margin. The JP/EU design looks like an answering machine. I like the colorful buttons, but I like the purple buttons too.

3 hours ago, NE146 said:

I had a number of Famicom and PC-Engine hucards and played them fine using adaptors on my NES and Turbografx-16.

Play, yes. Listen to... not so much. Some Famicom games that used the additional sound hardware sound funky on an NES.

[NE146]

4 hours ago, jgkspsx said:

Play, yes. Listen to... not so much. Some Famicom games that used the additional sound hardware sound funky on an NES.

Yeah although that was something I only learned during the age of the internet. In the late 80's, even if I did experience it I probably wouldn't have noticed at all.. not without an A/B reference of some kind.

 

Anyway the one game out of the short list of Famicom games with expanded audio I could have possibly had that experience with would be Castlevania 3....  but I didn't since I bought the US version. ?

 

[DragonGrafx-16]

The overwhelming majority of Famicom games did not use sound expansions.

[Steven Pendleton]

BTW the TurboGrafx-16 actually looks pretty cool in person. It's ugly as hell in pictures, but if you've ever seen a real one, it's actually pretty cool. Same thing for SuperGrafx.

 

18 hours ago, jeremiahjt said:

I am sure there are plenty of Japan based message boards where they use Famicom, PC Engine, and Super Famicom. You just have to find them.

You'd be surprised. I've looked for them for a while, but...

Edited November 29, 2021 by Steven Pendleton

[Steven Pendleton]

I am going to reevaluate the PC Engine mini. I'm not sure why, but I want to to see what I think of it now.

[roots.genoa]

I'd just like to play it again but I need a new TV for that. ?

[Tanooki]

The PCE Mini is quite good, surprised me really.  Probably better for steve there since he lives in the country to get one and understand the games I wish I could dig into like Snatcher, but still wherever you want to tap into it there's at least 50 games that are doable and largely very very top notch fun.

[str0m]

It's a shame there's never been a public released mod for it unless I've missed it? SNES/MD/PS1 etc Minis all got them. Would be great if we could chuck more games on

[Steven Pendleton]

I think I've played enough of the PC Engine mini now to basically say what I think of it. I don't remember what I said when I reviewed it when it was released, but I think it's basically fine in general. The PC Engine's d-pad has never been particularly great, but the mini's d-pad is very stiff. Might get better with use, though. Comparing it to my real CoreGrafx controller, the mini controller feels cheap and the system itself also feels light and hollow, especially compared to the surprisingly heavy CoreGrafx, which I'd feel relatively confident in using to beat the crap out of someone if they broke into my home or whatever.

 

I know I've said it before, but I'll say it again: best PC Engine controller for anything that's not a 6-button game is unquestionably the Avenue Pad 3. Playing Soldier Blade seriously for the first time, I almost never used the speed change thing since it's mapped to select and that's way too far out of the way for it to be especially practical. Then I switched to the SuperGrafx and used the Avenue Pad 3 and with that controller I can effortlessly change speed while also moving and shooting at the same time. Still, the mini controller works fine, and my mini controller's turbo is WAY faster than the real controller's turbo, which is really cool.

 

The menu's very nice, although I wish that the options menu could be accessed from inside games. Video options are okay, CRT filter is really bad, PC Engine GT/TurboExpress screen is really awesome, etc.. The games all run well enough. Is there lag? Yeah, it's there and I know it's there, but I don't notice it at all. Maybe it's because I haven't been playing the system since I was 3 years old like I did with the Genesis, which caused me to immediately notice the lag on the MD Mini when I played Sonic 2, but no problems here. I spent a lot of time playing Soldier Blade on the mini and then moved to the SuperGrafx to play it there and noticed absolutely no difference in lag.

 

Game selection is mostly fine, but there are some odd choices. Why are The Kung Fu and Moto Roader here? One's a launch game, so I can sort of understand that, EDIT: no it isn't, but it's close

 

and the other is the most awkward racing game I have ever played. No thanks, do not want. Still, when was the last time you can say that you bought some non-bootleg PC Engine games together in a lot for ~$100 and got:

 

Dracula X

Ginga Fukei Densetsu Sapphire

Soldier Blade (rare and expensive US version)

Lords of Thunder (US version)

Splatterhouse (Japanese version, which is actually kind of expensive now)

Ys (both versions)

Spriggan

Spriggan mark2

R-Type (US version)

 

Yeah, that's right, never. Unless you have, but I doubt it. I wish that there were a few games like Gate of Thunder, The Legendary Axe, Nexzr, Magical Chase, Cotton (seriously, PC Engine Cotton's music is still the best version of that soundtrack and worth playing just for that. It's better than even Cotton Reboot!'s soundtrack), and maybe a few more that I can't remember right now, but overall it's a pretty good selection. Is there a reason to buy this thing if you have a real PC Engine? Not really, unless you only have HDMI displays and no way to connect the PC Engine or you want to sell all of your games and make a ton of cash because PC Engine is ridiculously expensive right now. Is it good as a general representation of the system for someone who has no experience with it? Yeah, sure. That's basically all I really have to say so I'll abruptly and awkwardly stop here.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Steven Pendleton

[Tanooki]

I largely agree with the above, and I have been using the Duo(US) since 96-2005 and then the CG2/JP DUO for a few years in this decade so I can fill some gaps.

 

The controller doesn't feel cheap, and it's not really all that lighter, but let's be realistic parts are thinner and weigh less than usual 80s designed bulk.  The d-pad and buttons work as nice as my controllers did on my most recent Duo/CG2 setup and I went between the original and the Ave6 pad.  As far as lag, no I'd have to disagree with that.  The emulator it runs is quite sound, the only lag would be inherent with the actual LCD tv you're using.  I played some games it has and cards I had and they ran the same, looked about the same, and I had no issue.  I did research my TV well so it's a low general input lag device (old displaylag.com listed it as excellent as it was in the upper mid 20s of milliseconds.)  I'm not saying Steve is wrong ,but if he's going off feeling while I compared the actual things side by side as my GAME MODE I leave on by default for HDMI and sub-hd stuff lets it all run the same, unfiltered and unharrassed by crappy processing.  A great test for me was Gradius as I'm quite familiar with that one.

 

On the mini I don't use the filters, they blow as he said.  There are a few game choices I do find odd too, and I wish I had Salamander still, at least I own the fantastic Famicom cart for that one.

 

 

I just wish like the dude said earlier -- SOMEONE WOULD HACK IT.  I'd strongly consider throwing the HuCard library on the thing I had on the everdrive I used to own.  Good stuff, I miss dodgeball, parodius, twinbee.

[roots.genoa]

7 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

Why are The Kung Fu and Moto Roader here?

I guess games like Moto Roader and Gateball are there for variety. Racing games (and beat 'em ups) might be one of PC Engine library's weak points anyway. 4 of the 5 games you suggest are missing are shoot 'em ups, so...

[+jgkspsx]

1 hour ago, Tanooki said:

I wish I had Salamander still, at least I own the fantastic Famicom cart for that one.

Salamander is on there. Unless I’m crazy. Is it one of the secret games?

 

EDIT: it’s exclusive to the western releases. Well, that sucks.

 

But Twinbee time attack is a hidden game in Tokimeki!

[Tanooki]

Yup and it's tricky too, the other hidden game is interesting too but it doesn't make a lot of sense.  It has this kind of gradius style look, you play a stage then just up and die without a hit at a certain point.  I'm guessing it's like some point caravan maybe?  And yeah because i never could find the core grafx 2 model from the UK without a 50-100% markup I went for a PCE model.  I refused to pay a scalper so I went that route and basically broke even on a unit that even had a guaranteed working ac adapter block for it as well and included a new modern 8bitdo pce/turbo buttons controller that's wireless too.

[Steven Pendleton]

On 12/10/2021 at 6:19 AM, Tanooki said:

As far as lag, no I'd have to disagree with that.  The emulator it runs is quite sound, the only lag would be inherent with the actual LCD tv you're using.  I played some games it has and cards I had and they ran the same, looked about the same, and I had no issue.  I did research my TV well so it's a low general input lag device (old displaylag.com listed it as excellent as it was in the upper mid 20s of milliseconds.)  I'm not saying Steve is wrong ,but if he's going off feeling while I compared the actual things side by side as my GAME MODE I leave on by default for HDMI and sub-hd stuff lets it all run the same, unfiltered and unharrassed by crappy processing.  A great test for me was Gradius as I'm quite familiar with that one.

It supposedly has around 5 frames of input lag. I'm using a PC monitor with ~8.6ms of lag, so I'm on par with or faster than a CRT, depending on where the CRT's beam is in its sweep, and I don't notice anything at all. The sound delay is noticeable if you intentionally try to find it, but you probably won't notice it otherwise.

 

On 12/10/2021 at 6:58 AM, roots.genoa said:

I guess games like Moto Roader and Gateball are there for variety. Racing games (and beat 'em ups) might be one of PC Engine library's weak points anyway. 4 of the 5 games you suggest are missing are shoot 'em ups, so...

Yeah, there are lots of things missing; the entire Valis series, Final Match Tennis, some of the very impressive Neo Geo ports, some more Arcade Card games like Mad Stalker, and a few more that I can't think of right now. PC Engine is basically known for shooting games (15%~20% of the system's entire library is shooting), RPGs, and action games, so I'm sure they did what they could with licensing and stuff. I'm still surprised that Keith Courage isn't here since they wouldn't have to worry about licensing for it like they would with Mashin Eiyuuden Wataru and I guess American Turbo owners really have a close association with Keith Courage since it was a pack-in. I think I'd rather have Keith than Moto Roader.

[Tanooki]

I could give you the nod on the audio end, probably could look for it, I mean I've seen it pointed out in otherwise other minis out there that run fully right, but the audio is just off the same way.  I would call that slightly annoying at worst, if you're so in tune with the game to realize it, but as long as the gameplay itself isn't fouled up that's a win.

[Steven Pendleton]

Mugen Senshi Valis Collection for Switch showed up today. It's got the PC Engine versions of Valis 1-3. Emulation seems good so far! There are a few oddities, like this weird column of pixels on the left side of the screen here

 

 

but it seems mostly pretty great and those weird-looking pixels could be there on the real PC Engine for all I know, as it's been a while since I played this game. They are there on my SuperGrafx, so yeah, all good.

 

They didn't use integer scaling or interpolation in the 4:3 mode when docked, so it fills the screen vertically and the pixels are uneven on both axes, but there doesn't seem to be any shimmer when scrolling horizontally, which is odd, but okay. No scanline options here, which is also kind of odd, as I don't think I've ever seen a collection of old games like this on modern hardware that does not have scanlines, but honestly most fake scanlines just end up looking terrible anyway, so nothing was lost. Square pixels mode looks kind of small in handheld mode since it doesn't fill the 720 vertical resolution for some really strange reason despite that being an integer scale, so best to use the 4:3 mode there, I think.

 

Also, remember that NEC billboard at the end of the first stage of 3? Yeah, it's gone, as expected. The collection's publisher, Edia, put their logo there in place of the NEC logo and I really have no problems with it since it looks cool.

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Steven Pendleton

[Tanooki]

I saw that bundle popup searching play-asia and was wondering if it was worth bothering with.  Seems minimalist but good, sells itself for the games, not fluff and terrible graphics tricks.

[CMR]

Anybody know what the missing chips on the TG16 board were for?  The way they're positioned near the card slot, it looks like they may have been intended for a built in game or the TurboCD bios/ram.

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/NEC-TurboGrafx-16-Motherboard-Top.jpg

[+jeremiahjt]

Timely bump as I beat Dungeon Explorer today so now I can talk about it. Quite a fun game single player, but I would greatly like to try multi-player.

 

I went through as the Fighter, which is probably the most mundane character. And probably the easiest also. If I ever play through again I will choose a different character.  Of course with the ability to improve whatever stats you want, you can make any character fighter-like.

 

I liked all the boss designs and all the boss fights. Now if you did not continue right were you died I might have a different opinion. I was not as fond as the normal enemies. They were all right, but none stuck out to me as memorable.

 

Everything else was quite nice: graphics, sound, control, story, etc. I have played through Dungeon Explorer on the Sega CD and I cannot decide which game I like better. They are different, but both quite fun.

 

Now I have to get a TurboGrafx-CD or a TurboDuo to try out Dungeon Explorer II. Ha. Not going to happen. I know there is also that Crystal Beans on the Super Famicom, but I will most likely never try that out.

 

I think I actually want to play Bonk 3 next, but I might as well play through Bonk's Adventure and Bonk's Revenge again since those two games are great.