The Official Turbografx 16 Thread!

[+jeremiahjt]

That Order of the Griffon cover is just a reuse of the cover for the Ed Greenwood novel Spellfire.

[turboxray]

US/NA version of R-Type for TG16 has some video settings changed from the Japanese release.. and it wasn't for the better:

 

This has been known for some time now. But I was curious as to what extent the effect had on the game. So I patched the original rom and did a quick comparison. I used the demo mode so two captures (from the real system) would align up.

Edited October 31, 2021 by turboxray

[+jgkspsx]

On the plus side, you get the whole game on one hucard. Nowadays that’s not such a big deal, but back in the day it seemed like a better value proposition. I wonder how many people even made it to part 2, though.

 

Was there any reason they changed the settings?

[turboxray]

3 hours ago, jgkspsx said:

On the plus side, you get the whole game on one hucard. Nowadays that’s not such a big deal, but back in the day it seemed like a better value proposition. I wonder how many people even made it to part 2, though.

 

Was there any reason they changed the settings?

Yeah. For a small bit there NEC apparently freaked out and thought the mid res mode of the PCE was too high of a pixel clock for vram. I.e. getting too close to the rated vram speed. They did this sometime in 89-ish, but then reversed their opinion. Basically when the PCE is in mid res mode (7.16mhz dot clock), often referred to as 352 horizontal res mode, it accesses vram as 140ns periods. The vram is rated at 120ns though (lower number means it's faster), so it's fast enough, and ram back then typically was faster than the actual rating. What does all this mean? Well, the video chip (VDC) can be setup to run with slower vram. So US version of R-Type does this. The problem is that the VDC uses "hblank" for fetch ALL the sprite pixels for the upcoming line. When vram is clocked slower, and there's not enough time to fetch all the sprite cells for a 352 pixel wide display, so some cells get dropped. The PCE can set how wide the display pixel area is, regardless of the resolution, and so if you shorten this display area (clip it horizontally), you can get back some of that draw time for more hblank time. The US version takes the Japanese resolution of 352x236 and changes it to 336x236. It helped, when using slower vram clock speed, but it only allows 192 pixels or 12 sprites to show per line. The normal limitation for PCE is 16 sprites or 256 pixels. By changing it back, you gain 4 sprites or 64 pixels more per scanline. In this hack for this video, I didn't bother changing the displayable area back to 352 because that's technically in overscan area (compared to the nes/sms/md/snes/etc) - mainly because I was trying to show the sprite issue and not so much the over scan issue. One thing to note, is that the game logic is unaware of the horizontal display area change. It still assumes the displayable area is 352 in the US version. It's drawing the graphics as if you can see it haha.

 

 IREM released Ninja Spirit and Legend oh Hero Tonma later on in the US, and left the Japanese settings as is - so these games don't have this issue. But some other Japanese games around 1989 have settings like this too; Ys I & II only shows 14 sprites or 224 pixels a line (but it also wastes two sprites on either side of the screen for the border, so it's still effectively on 12 sprites or 192 pixels). Funny enough, I guess when IREM made Japanese R-Type Complete CD they used the US settings instead of the Japanese settings lol. We need patches for both games (or all games for that matter - why not).

 

 It's funny, NEC is over here worrying about something being 'too close to spec', but mean while Nintendo is just over there making mappers with bus conflicts - giving zero f*cks  ;>_>

Edited November 1, 2021 by turboxray

[NeonSpaceBeagle]

On 10/31/2021 at 7:30 PM, jgkspsx said:

On the plus side, you get the whole game on one hucard. Nowadays that’s not such a big deal, but back in the day it seemed like a better value proposition. I wonder how many people even made it to part 2, though.

 

Was there any reason they changed the settings?

imagine that? the entire game on one card (or disc).  I'm looking at you R Type Final 2 >:-/

[electricmastro]

It's only a game.

 

[turboxray]

http://www.turboxraypce.org/pce_demos/

I did some quick/dirty King of Fighters backgrounds to PCE conversion. There's some color artifacts as I didn't spend any time clean them up (that's takes a bit of time). I was curious to see how they would convert. I didn't do the full background length.. just like 512px horizontal's worth. Not bad haha.

[electricmastro]

Best version of Street Fighter II?:

 

 

[newtmonkey]

I've been playing a lot of PC Engine lately.  I recently completed Ys I/II for the first time and am playing though Ys III now.  I completed the SNES version of that one back in the day, so it's interesting to compare the two versions—PCE version is basically better in every way except for background scrolling.  I was surprised to find you can actually play PCE Ys III as an actual action game, as the hit detection is not completely broken like it is in the SNES version.

 

I have multiple ROM/ISO solutions available, as I'm picky and get annoyed easily haha.  I started with a Turbo Everdrive (it's fine), but then got a Super SD 3, obviously so I could play CD games as well.  My SSD3 is from the weird middle batch, where the worst of the issues had been resolved but it still has awful CD audio clipping.  I then got the UperGrafx, which I am now 100% happy with; it's a very quirky device and a pain to set up, but once you get used to it, it's fantastic.  It took me a weekend of fooling around with it to get the SD card set up fine, and now I don't even need to think about it.  Turn it on, select the game from the menu, and play.

 

I've now settled on using UperGrafx for CD games, and Super SD System 3 for chip/card games.  I use the former for its great CD audio balance without clipping (though slightly louder than original hardware) and error-free soft reset to the game menu from CD games, and the latter because—unlike the Turbo Everdrive—you can soft reset to the game menu from the controller.

Edited November 19, 2021 by newtmonkey

[+jgkspsx]

Do you have multiple PC Engines? I would be leery of swapping devices on the CD expansion port too often… that’s a lot of easy to bend pins.

 

I turned off the soft reset on the SSDS3 because it causes most CD games to crash in my experience

[cybercylon]

22 hours ago, newtmonkey said:

 

 

I've now settled on using UperGrafx for CD games, and Super SD System 3 for chip/card games.  I use the former for its great CD audio balance without clipping (though slightly louder than original hardware) and error-free soft reset to the game menu from CD games, and the latter because—unlike the Turbo Everdrive—you can soft reset to the game menu from the controller.

Does the UperGrafx allow you to use the Turbo Everdrive? I would have to concur with jgkspsx. Those pins are really easy to bend even with the PC Engine. I never did get the soft reset to work well with the SD system 3.

1 hour ago, jgkspsx said:

Do you have multiple PC Engines? I would be leery of swapping devices on the CD expansion port too often… that’s a lot of easy to bend pins.

 

I turned off the soft reset on the SSDS3 because it causes most CD games to crash in my experience

This. I'd like to pick up a CoreGrafx, but are there still issues with things being shipped from Japan? The North American resellers really like to jack up the price, and the prices are bad enough as it is.

 

I did break down and get the HD of the SSDS3 (I know I said I wouldn't many pages back, but I caved in). In my hands, the soft reset seems to work fine with the updated version. Anyway, my old one is likely to find a new home.

 

Off topic from the quotes.. any one having issues getting the Turbo Everdrive to work with the new SSDS3 Pro? I just get a green screen despite trying multiple SD cards. If I had another system around, I could test it as I'd rather not do the swap out the SSDS3s with the pin issue. It worked fine with the old SSDS3.

[+jgkspsx]

2 hours ago, cybercylon said:

I'd like to pick up a CoreGrafx, but are there still issues with things being shipped from Japan?

No. (At least not to the US and Canada.) Prices vary wildly these days between eBay price gouging and very good deals. Search some off eBay sellers before buying.

 

Quote

Off topic from the quotes.. any one having issues getting the Turbo Everdrive to work with the new SSDS3 Pro?

I don’t understand. I ask sincerely: what is the point of doing that?

[cybercylon]

1 hour ago, jgkspsx said:

No. (At least not to the US and Canada.) Prices vary wildly these days between eBay price gouging and very good deals. Search some off eBay sellers before buying.

 

I don’t understand. I ask sincerely: what is the point of doing that?

I left out a tidbit. I am eyeing some redundant stuff to perhaps part with. I'd like to know if my Turbo Everdrive works.

[newtmonkey]

11 hours ago, jgkspsx said:

Do you have multiple PC Engines? I would be leery of swapping devices on the CD expansion port too often… that’s a lot of easy to bend pins.

 

I turned off the soft reset on the SSDS3 because it causes most CD games to crash in my experience

I have only one PC Engine, but I have to remove the UperGrafx/SSDS3 anyway when I store the console (I don't leave my consoles out/connected).  I'm extremely careful attaching/detaching them, but if it breaks, it breaks I guess.

 

I had the same results with SSDS3 and soft reset, it made CD games unplayable in my experience.

[+jgkspsx]

Could you just get another PC Engine and store them with the add-ons attached? The add ons are much more expensive than the console itself…

[Tanooki]

I finally got rid of almost all my PCE stuff which is a relief.  I'm kind of surprised a little at the 3 things left, mostly Ninja Spirit(JP, card only) though, less shocked at Time Cruise 2 card and a complete Afterburner.  The few people I bundled largely the stuff off to seemed like good sorts and really wanted to dig into the stuff and have a blast which I appreciated if it wasn't blowing smoke.

[turboxray]

I picked up a PAL/EU TurboGrafx. I was curious about how they hacked the up the VCE to get a PAL signal, but I wasn't really too interested in the system itself.. that is, until I started playing it. It's kind of fun playing everything at 50hz!  And hearing most chip game music as a slower version of the original. I have an SSDS3 and it's played every CD game I have thrown at it.. arcade card, super cd, FMV, etc. I took it apart and found that it has the "revision A" chips in it. That was unexpected. Puts it around late 1989 / early 1990 I guess. Even the US TG16 didn't have them.

 

The PAL composite video output is very clear.. even more so than even the NTSC models. But I found on peculiar thing.. in the highest res mode - two pixel as always blended.. perfectly. Were they trying to do a 256px pseudo res but with a 3375 color palette? Or is this just a happy accident haha. Unclear.. but here's a pic of it in action

 

[DragonGrafx-16]

I beat Soldier Blade tonight!!!

[Sinjinhawke]

I notice Amazon Japan is discounting their remaining white PC Engine mini’s today.  These are the ones where the controller is missing the turbo switches.  I have the TG mini but this will be a nice backup and an extra controller is nice as well.  

[Steven Pendleton]

This exists

 

http://megaengine.pceworks.net/

[turboxray]

2 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

This exists

 

http://megaengine.pceworks.net/

It'd be better if it didn't.

[Steven Pendleton]

9 hours ago, turboxray said:

It'd be better if it didn't.

lol yeah. I'm not really sure why this thing exists. I'm pretty sure that it's just a software emulator with a disc drive, and since it can only be obtained online, that means that anyone who has the capability to buy one already has access to free emulators that are probably better anyway. It is kind of fun to laugh at it, though.

[turboxray]

3 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

lol yeah. I'm not really sure why this thing exists. I'm pretty sure that it's just a software emulator with a disc drive, and since it can only be obtained online, that means that anyone who has the capability to buy one already has access to free emulators that are probably better anyway. It is kind of fun to laugh at it, though.

It is just a software emulator; it's retroarch. Which is below the bar for some emulation cores. The processor is ARM, so potentially android based. I doubt it's a Pi.

[Steven Pendleton]

2 minutes ago, turboxray said:

It is just a software emulator; it's retroarch. Which is below the bar for some emulation cores. The processor is ARM, so potentially android based. I doubt it's a Pi.

I have absolutely no idea about PC Engine emulators, but that sounds disappointing. I wonder if there is something like BlastEm for PC Engine, but I don't know. I'll just continue to play games on my real PC Engines, which I have not done for some months now anyway.

[turboxray]

11 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

I have absolutely no idea about PC Engine emulators, but that sounds disappointing. I wonder if there is something like BlastEm for PC Engine, but I don't know. I'll just continue to play games on my real PC Engines, which I have not done for some months now anyway.

I used to game a lot on emulators because it was more of a pain to setup the real hardware/display/etc (I still had the real hardware). But now I do almost all my gaming on the real hardware via the retrotink 5x. I only used emulators for debugging or hacking. For hardware that I don't have, I use a MisTer unit.. not software emulation.

Edited November 27, 2021 by turboxray