The Official Turbografx 16 Thread!

[+GoldenWheels]

I didn't mind my Turbo on RF when it was all I had. Got one of those homemade AV cords but the sound was super weak. Finally just broke down and did the Duo thing, which is what I should have done from day one.

[Eltigro]

I've had my TG since new and it still has a great rf output. I'm sure it probably does look better with other output options, but it doesn't look bad now. I no longer use the original rf adapter, though... just using a regular av cable running straight to a coax adapter. I switch that cable out between several systems including my 2600 and Intellivision which don't work well with an automatic rf switch.

[+GoldenWheels]

Yeah so far as stock RF, my Turbo and my 7800 were the best I've seen, across multiple systems (well, multiple 7800s at least, I've only had one Turbo). Totally playable, low static if any, next to no ghosting.

 

Whereas I've owned 3 Colecovisions and the RF was GOD awful on all three. Ugh.

 

I guess there is no accounting for the bumps and bruises each system MAY have seen in 20-30+ years but still...seems like a trend!

[derFunkenstein]

What do folks think of the Super SD System 3? Sure, it's not real media, but CD systems are already pretty rare and costly. Thinking of adding one of these things to my Core Graphics and get RGB in the deal (via Genesis 2-style SCART cable).

[CZroe]

What do folks think of the Super SD System 3? Sure, it's not real media, but CD systems are already pretty rare and costly. Thinking of adding one of these things to my Core Graphics and get RGB in the deal (via Genesis 2-style SCART cable).

I was hung-ho until I saw how they treated people who were trying to help. Sure, they did the right thing by recalling and replacing but behind the scenes they scapegoated the very people who tried to help before launch and could have helped if Terra Onion/NeoSD has only cooperated, all the while insisting that there was nothing wrong and that these people were just whiny. Very unprofessional. I’m not an RGB purist either but I had the same questions as them before launch (questions NeoSD dodged) and I saw their open offers to help them soon enough to avoid the recall (literally as soon as it was announced). Point is, there was no reason for it to ever be that way except that they buried their head in the sand, only pulling it out to scream at the people trying to help.

 

Now I’m more interested in UpperGrafx/UperGrafx. It’s a Japanese TG16/PCE Optical Drive Emulator (ODE) which pre-dates SSDSys3. It doesn’t have HuCard/System Card emulation like SSDSys3 but it does have one killer feature nothing else has: Direct digital DVI/HDMI output, UltraHDMI-style with no analog RGB conversion. Since I already have a TurboED I won’t miss the System Card and HuCard stuff from the SSDSys3.

 

Just waiting on someone to give their English impressions of the ODE version but I may end up being the Guinea pig for this thing. Would have ordered already if my roommate didn’t just bail on me and double my rent (f—ker had to go off and get married! Harrumph.).

[derFunkenstein]

Wow, never seen that one before. Found this video and it looks cool.

 

The video shows stretched 16:9 but the guy talking says that there's a service menu to choose 4:3. Lack of aspect and forced 16:9 would have been a deal breaker.

 

I also have a Turbo EverDrive but HDMI is less of a concern to me. After conversion the Super SD System 3 is around $320 shipped to the US. The Upper Grafx is $425. http://www.upergrafx.com/home?lng=en&phpv=2(44980 yen to USD conversion) before shipping.

 

Since I have an OSSC on the way already, and despite how some people may have behaved, the SSDS3 seems like the "better buy". If I didn't have the OSSC coming, I'd definitely give this a look.

Edited February 19, 2018 by derFunkenstein

[Tanooki]

CZroe was that really as much the TO team than really the behavior over at that forum that caused the problem? I'm not saying there's no blame there since they never have set their own board up but I watched it kind of all get fed all over the place there.

 

That said I didn't know about the UperGrafx until all this crap storm blew in over the SSS3 mess and I backed off buying one of them not so much due to the behaviors but because of that device. Yes it would ultimately cost more having to get a TE and that to get the same functionality, but you gain a bulletproof jack system for the device with the little cables going out of fashion on TVs while the HDMI format will be around for a very long time to come. The fact it can have a clean lag free environment like other UltraHDMI like things (NES, N64, Gamecube) and allowing long term usefulness I like that.

 

But like you, I can't find some english owner reviews, in depth or really otherwise showing the capabilities of it for what it promises between the saving, hdmi output, and the disc copies and how they work on there too(and your structure needed so it reads that.)

 

Mind you I think having an OSSC would negate the usefulness of it though too. I think you could attach the same DVI-HDMI converter on that, then attach a 4-6port HDMI switcher box on that to get all those old systems playing nice too. Either way it's an expense and a fix.

[derFunkenstein]

I'm not really up-to-speed on the whole TerraOnion drama thing. Was it as simple as people said there was a flaw, and then TerraOnion said there wasn't a flaw right up until the point where they recalled all the devices? As unfortunate as something like that might be, it's pretty common at least for corporations.

 

Just look at the iPhone thing - Apple there was no problem with the battery or performance right up until Apple admitted there was a problem with the battery that caused them to cripple performance.

 

Or maybe Microsoft and the RROD sounds familiar - Microsoft said there was no problem with the Xbox 360 failing in droves right up until Microsoft did the extended warranty for RROD failures.

 

And so there was no problem with SSDS3 right up until there was a massive recall.

 

It's certainly not a valid excuse. Companies should be held accountable for how they treat the people that give them money. But in my jaded eyes, it's just same s*** different day for these guys. Didn't stop me from buying an Xbox One and it won't stop me from upgrading to the next iPhone this fall. The fact is companies make things that I want and if I want them and can agree to the price, I'll pay it.

[CZroe]

Wow, never seen that one before. Found this video and it looks cool. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUlV4Pi4_m8

 

The video shows stretched 16:9 but the guy talking says that there's a service menu to choose 4:3. Lack of aspect and forced 16:9 would have been a deal breaker.

 

I also have a Turbo EverDrive but HDMI is less of a concern to me. After conversion the Super SD System 3 is around $320 shipped to the US. The Upper Grafx is $425. http://www.upergrafx.com/home?lng=en&phpv=2(44980 yen to USD conversion) before shipping.

 

Since I have an OSSC on the way already, and despite how some people may have behaved, the SSDS3 seems like the "better buy". If I didn't have the OSSC coming, I'd definitely give this a look.

The video shows 4:3 matted with pillar boxes. Instead of the usual black pillar boxes it had self-promotional banners because it was on display at a trade show/event. That was the older UGX-01 version that they say is “fully populated” for the ODE function but they haven’t decided if they want to enable the functionality. They said that before they announced UGX-02 and Google Translate shows them considering a trade up/upgrade service, so perhaps they couldn’t enable it on UGX-01 after all.

 

Yeah, SSDSys3 is definitely the better buy for most, especially if you don’t have a TED. Even if you do, SSDSys3 has better game support and can even play those few titles that would require an expensive Arcade Card with the UGX-02. UGX-02 has a clunky way to get CD images on it too, requiring you to convert them to a certain format and write to the card RAW with a utility (non-standard filesystem).

 

Ignoring game-specific issues and user friendliness, it really boils down to two core differences:

Direct digital DVI/HDMI output (UGX-02)

Built-in flashcard/Arcade Card (SSDSys3)

 

CZroe was that really as much the TO team than really the behavior over at that forum that caused the problem? I'm not saying there's no blame there since they never have set their own board up but I watched it kind of all get fed all over the place there.

 

That said I didn't know about the UperGrafx until all this crap storm blew in over the SSS3 mess and I backed off buying one of them not so much due to the behaviors but because of that device. Yes it would ultimately cost more having to get a TE and that to get the same functionality, but you gain a bulletproof jack system for the device with the little cables going out of fashion on TVs while the HDMI format will be around for a very long time to come. The fact it can have a clean lag free environment like other UltraHDMI like things (NES, N64, Gamecube) and allowing long term usefulness I like that.

 

But like you, I can't find some english owner reviews, in depth or really otherwise showing the capabilities of it for what it promises between the saving, hdmi output, and the disc copies and how they work on there too(and your structure needed so it reads that.)

 

Mind you I think having an OSSC would negate the usefulness of it though too. I think you could attach the same DVI-HDMI converter on that, then attach a 4-6port HDMI switcher box on that to get all those old systems playing nice too. Either way it's an expense and a fix.

I thoroughly went through everything they said on Neo-Geo Forums, Shmups, and elsewhere. It goes a lot deeper, including Arcade-Projects, RetroRGB, and more. What I saw was Terra Onion/NeoSD themselves fanning the flames with out-right lies inside an echo-chamber that would take their suggestions and run with it.

 

I'm not really up-to-speed on the whole TerraOnion drama thing. Was it as simple as people said there was a flaw, and then TerraOnion said there wasn't a flaw right up until the point where they recalled all the devices? As unfortunate as something like that might be, it's pretty common at least for corporations.

 

Just look at the iPhone thing - Apple there was no problem with the battery or performance right up until Apple admitted there was a problem with the battery that caused them to cripple performance.

 

Or maybe Microsoft and the RROD sounds familiar - Microsoft said there was no problem with the Xbox 360 failing in droves right up until Microsoft did the extended warranty for RROD failures.

 

And so there was no problem with SSDS3 right up until there was a massive recall.

 

It's certainly not a valid excuse. Companies should be held accountable for how they treat the people that give them money. But in my jaded eyes, it's just same s*** different day for these guys. Didn't stop me from buying an Xbox One and it won't stop me from upgrading to the next iPhone this fall. The fact is companies make things that I want and if I want them and can agree to the price, I'll pay it.

WAY deeper than that. I was excited from the moment this thing was announced. I remained excited even when there were questions about what cables it would use (valid questions considering their port of choice). I remained excited even after it launched and video purists started finding that they did, indeed, mess up the video output. I remained excited when people found that they linked the analog and digital ground planes which made audible noise when loading. I remained excited when they announced the recall and replacement. I would have remained excited even if they DIDN’T update it. I lost all enthusiasm, however, when they put all the blame on Bob from RetroRGB an viciously attacked him, which led the rest of the forums to do the same.

 

What that means is that they were not actually taking responsibility. They were saying that whiny videophiles forced them to recall a perfectly working product. I watched in stunned disbelief as everyone praised them for admitting mistakes and taking responsibility when, in fact, they were doing the exact opposite.

 

Bob reports gaming news (well, he DID until last week) and runs a website dedicated to getting the best video quality from old game consoles (RetroRGB Weekly Podcast and RetroRGB website). Obviously, when they reported on this they were interested in the video capabilities as well. Being RGB enthusiasts, they knew that the Genesis/Megadrive do not output proper RGB and components are required in the cable. Purists insist on correcting it in the console. Even then, there should be certain components in the cable that aren’t always there. This means that there are three different kinds of Gen/MD cables out there with no word from Terra Onion on which theirs was designed to take.

 

Of course, Bob asked. He couldn’t get a real answer so he asked if he could borrow one before launch to review as two other YouTuber’s had done. He had hoped to give feedback to get things right before it launched, which is something he and his crew have done in the past for other products. They turned him down.

 

In the two months leading up to the launch the best answer anyone could get from TO was that it was changed in response to their concerns and was designed to work with any cable even if it wasn’t perfect. Bob dutifully reported everything we knew and remained enthusiastic/supportive.

 

When it launched, we found out that they were using the worst possible straight cables without even resistors or something crazy like that. Even worse, they engineered it to require those cables even if you had expensive HD Retrovision cables or proper Sega cables. Worse still is that the messed up the signals and merged the digital/analog ground planes so there was terrible noise and artifacting in the video and audio, even if you used the same cables they did.

 

It was the worst-case scenario, which is *facepalm* worthy considering all the concern people expressed before it started manufacturing. Sure, they agreed to a recall, but what did they do first? If you thought they may have been a little defensive... HA! They were OFFENSIVE, accusing Bob of demanding a free unit then trying to trash them. They publicly accused anyone concerned with these issues of being a whiny crybaby and that it was Bob’s fault anyone cared/noticed (as if no one thinks for themselves?). Of course, the said this on their sub forums on NGF and the NGF members and operators ran with this idea, but I’m not faulting them for what NGF said/did.

 

Thanks to Bob reporting the existence to other RGB purists, they had a lot of potential buyers for whom this was a big deal... and Terra Onion definitely did NOT appreciate it. That’s fine. They made an ODE and HuCard emulator and enhanced video output was a secondary feature. I still planned to buy it. Bob was still excited too and he continued to support them when discussing it on the RetroRGB podcast.

 

After they announced the recall is when it turned REALLY ugly. They cluelessly praised Voultar for his help in fixing the RGB levels and attacked Bob, cluelessly not even realizing that Voultar was doing exactly what Bob offered to do. Heck, Voultar is part of the RetroRGB Roundtable and works with Bob on that stuff. They played the victim by claiming that it was costing them thousands and it was all Bob’s fault. They claimed that he instructed hundreds of people to demand refunds. They claimed that he did this to hurt them for not sending him a free unit. All lies.

 

First, all of Bob’s weekly reports were supportive and the concerns he had were the same concerns his audience would share. It would be wrong NOT to ask those questions or remind his listeners about the pre-existing situation with Genesis/Megadrive RGB cables. Amazingly, he didn’t even acknowledge their attacks on him and remained supportive while expressing sympathy when he reported on the recall. Bravo!

 

Second, the NGF guys latched on to Terra Onion’s claim that Bob demanded a free unit and began attacking Bob all over the net. In response, Bob tweeted a screenshot of his email to Terra Onion where he clearly asked to “borrow” it. Terra Onion responded with laughs and derision, claiming that no one “borrows” things for review. Wait a second. Isn’t that EXTREMELY common? Doesn’t that happen in the tech industry all the time? Don’t review units sometimes get passed around? Don’t they sometimes have stipulations that they be given away to a reader/viewer/listener when the review is over? Heck, doesn’t Bob himself and his contemporaries (My Life in Gaming) have an established history of doing this? Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes.

 

So, surely someone put a stop to this nonsense and corrected them, right? No. The people in charge banned anyone who dared not to pick up a pitchfork or torch alongside the rest of them. The entire forum doubled down on the lie and continued claiming that Bob was demanding one for free. Not a single post in support of Bob was allowed. The admins even changed Bob’s username to something extremely offensive and referred to him that way in all posts. The vitriol and hate toward Bob was spewing everywhere, and Terra Onion was right in the middle, orchestrating all of it.

 

It doesn’t take long to see all the RetroRGB weekly updates related to it from the time it was announced (Dec 7). If you look yourself you will see that Bob was always supportive, cautiously optimistic, enthusiastic, and sympathetic. He doesn’t deserve this.

 

Now, to be clear, I’m not offended on Bob’s behalf. It’s not like I’m some RetroRGB groupie Bob-fan who just can’t handle them attacking Bob. I don’t even own an RGB display and didn’t even have the ability to test my RGB arcade boards until a got a CGA to VGA Converter a few weeks ago (after all this BS). I’m simply appalled at their behavior. It’s the most unprofessional thing I’ve witnessed from a company since, well, the same guys did something equally bad with DarkSoft/Arcade-Projects... but that’s another story involving Terra Onion’s NeoSD, DarkSoft’s/Arcade Project’s Neo Multi, a live stream from BeAsT, and a the NeoSD’s won early videos.

 

Seeing people praise Terra Onion as “professional” in response to how they handled this really blows my mind. It was the most unprofessional response to a product issue I have ever witnessed. I was still on board even after they announced the recall until I saw their statements at the end where they completely denied the issue and blamed the very person who would have saved them all this trouble had they only listened. To misplace the blame on the very person offering help before it was too late while simultaneously praising an associate of his for helping after it was too late just smacks of irony. There was literally no difference in what Voultar was offering and what Bob was offering except Bob was offering the help soon enough to avoid the recall. Cluelessly throwing him under the bus demonstrates laughable ignorance... and I DID laugh.

 

I would change my mind tomorrow and place an order as soon as I could spare if they simply admitted their mistake and apologized. That probably isn’t going to happen though.

[derFunkenstein]

I found a thread: http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?273804-Oficial-Super-SD-System-3-RGB-Statement&p=4268528

 

Got the link from here: https://twitter.com/retrorgb/status/956245138598227969?lang=en

 

And yeah, that's pretty unprofessional. It's crappy of them to on one hand fix the issue and on the other hand drag him through the mud. I can see their point in a way, though...it seems that for Bob to call it a "disaster" over a noisy image is hyperbole at best. Even with noise in the image it looks to me a whole lot better than my CoreGrafx through composite.

 

Is it also weird that zero people in the thread objected to how the OP talked about Bob? In fact, some people are actually agreeing. I'm not a podcast listener (I'd rather play games when I'm able than listen to people yammer about them) so I have no way to judge that for myself.

 

$300 is no small chunk of change, so I'm not 100% committed. Gonna wait until real people have them in their hands to even consider it. OTOH if I boycotted every company that did something I disagreed with, I'd be naked, homeless, and very lonely.

Edited February 20, 2018 by derFunkenstein

[CZroe]

I found a thread: http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?273804-Oficial-Super-SD-System-3-RGB-Statement&p=4268528

 

Got the link from here: https://twitter.com/retrorgb/status/956245138598227969?lang=en

 

And yeah, that's pretty unprofessional. It's crappy of them to on one hand fix the issue and on the other hand drag him through the mud. I can see their point in a way, though...it seems that for Bob to call it a "disaster" over a noisy image is hyperbole at best. Even with noise in the image it looks to me a whole lot better than my CoreGrafx through composite.

 

Is it also weird that zero people in the thread objected to how the OP talked about Bob? In fact, some people are actually agreeing. I'm not a podcast listener (I'd rather play games when I'm able than listen to people yammer about them) so I have no way to judge that for myself.

 

$300 is no small chunk of change, so I'm not 100% committed. Gonna wait until real people have them in their hands to even consider it. OTOH if I boycotted every company that did something I disagreed with, I'd be naked, homeless, and very lonely.

That’s another one of their lies. Bob never called it a disaster. I went back and listened to everything he ever said about it. He cumulatively talked for maybe 12 minutes about the thing and was always enthusiastic, helpful, excited, inquisitive, supportive, and sympathetic. He even talked about a similar situation he was responsible for with a previous employer releasing a broken product that was his fault. He always restated his enthusiasm for the project and never said anything like that. It was made up out of the blue jus like he lie that he sent people to them demanding refunds (never happened) and the lie that he demanded one for free (HA!).

[Tanooki]

More drama from both TO and DS to really like either or want to support them on a moral level. It comes down to the product and if it would serve a purpose and save you some money in the long run since it's not like you're buying boards from SNK or Cards/CDs from NEC anymore either depending on the product. It's going to people playing speculation games on prices, so why not give it to a modern tool, maker that bypasses the stupidity with an easy though expensive solution. Just have to weigh it against what's better, taking a moral ground against a-hole tactics and losing out on a device, or ignoring their snark and douchy stuff and enjoying the tool that was developed while holding your nose as the wallet gets a burn mark on it.

 

For me I don't need HDMI but it would be nice. So really in the end there's the option of the $100~ everdrive or the $300 TO device that does discs too. I used to love the dozen discs I had but they're not vital, but then again are the hucards either?

[Eltigro]

I suggested recently ( I think it was to Tanooki?) to use cassette cases as a way to store their HuCards, looks like someone on Reddit did just that.

 

https://i.redd.it/8ynfz6wwubh01.jpg

[CZroe]

I suggested recently ( I think it was to Tanooki?) to use cassette cases as a way to store their HuCards, looks like someone on Reddit did just that.

 

https://i.redd.it/8ynfz6wwubh01.jpg

Did he scale down a DVD insert from The Cover Project? Looks cool. I have mine in DVD cases but I might scale them down too to free up some space on my shelf.

[Tanooki]

No that wasn't me. Someone told me to use PCMCIA plastic cases as they're a near perfect 1:1 fit. Ultimately I already had this nice 2 piece of plastic trading/sports card box (meant for 100 cards) I picked up and put them in there. I think it could in the end without sleeves hold 18-20 of them at most. I was going that route but suddenly had a few luck strikes on complete games that went at or under the value of a hucard alone so now it's a mixed bag on the shelf.

[Eltigro]

Dunno... he didn't give any details on the insert, just that he snipped some off the tabs inside the case (the ones that go through the holes in the cassette) to hold the game snug. It does look good, but I don't have any loose HuCards, so...

[Parallax Scroll]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh FINALLY.

 

I've at last found Diehard GameFan's "Graveyard" segment on Ghouls 'n Ghosts for the NEC SuperGrafx. -- It was in Volume 2 Issue 6.

 

Bless you on archive.org who scanned & uploaded it.

 

 

For those that missed them, I had previous posted the other SG games that Diehard GameFan covered.

 

 

.

Edited February 23, 2018 by Parallax Scroll

[Eltigro]

The "allot" in the last line...

[+GoldenWheels]

One thing I always LOVED about game mags....long connected shots showing entire levels screen by screen, a la that 1941 screen shot on the left. I would hang that on my wall if I could!

[Tanooki]

I just got done playing Fantasy Zone, then Afterburner II and finally Gradius. I forgot how nasty all three could be, especially Gradius when you get to the reverse stage (st4 flips #1.) You at that rate die, it's just over, the boss fight isn't happening unpowered.

[derFunkenstein]

I never last even five minutes in Fantasy Zone. That sumbitch is hard! Doesn't matter if it's PCE or Master System I just suck at that game.

Edited February 24, 2018 by derFunkenstein

[Parallax Scroll]

This is all the GameFan coverage I could find on Castlevania / Dracula X - Rondo of Blood for PC-Engine CD.

 

[Tanooki]

I'm curious I was thinking back to when I used to own Fighting Street years ago on TG CD and I seemed to remember it right so I looked and I was. Capcom has almost no name to it anywhere on the entire package other than a tiny print © to them on the disc, manual, and the rear sticker art too while Hudson Soft is in huge print on everything giving the false appearance it's really their game almost.

 

Is there some story behind the why on this? Did Hudson do the entire conversion and Capcom just authorized it so that's why? Or is there some larger meaning to it? SF2 CE came out in Japan annoyingly only and that one has their name all over it, but more or less they seemed to have really nothing to do with the system. 1943 Kai came out, and that one I do own currently and that has Naxat Soft on there which is a common company to convert other makers games to the system.

[+Black_Tiger]

Capcom wasn't allowed to publish for other consoles because of Nintendo's bs contract and Japanese "loyalty".

 

The success of the Mega Drive worldwide and Nintendo's losses in courts led to them eventually making games for that platform, but they never developed anything for PC Engine. Some of their people are supposed to have worked on games like Sidearms and Son Son II. NEC Ave made the PCE version of SFII'.

[CZroe]

I'm curious I was thinking back to when I used to own Fighting Street years ago on TG CD and I seemed to remember it right so I looked and I was. Capcom has almost no name to it anywhere on the entire package other than a tiny print © to them on the disc, manual, and the rear sticker art too while Hudson Soft is in huge print on everything giving the false appearance it's really their game almost.

 

Is there some story behind the why on this? Did Hudson do the entire conversion and Capcom just authorized it so that's why? Or is there some larger meaning to it? SF2 CE came out in Japan annoyingly only and that one has their name all over it, but more or less they seemed to have really nothing to do with the system. 1943 Kai came out, and that one I do own currently and that has Naxat Soft on there which is a common company to convert other makers games to the system.

In the years leading up to the PCE, platform owners wanted to be the sole source of software for their platforms. At first Atari did all their own ports and tried to use law to stop third-party publishers (they failed). Nintendo even posted several games to the Famicom hardware when they first pitched it to Atari. Early on, Famicom titles made outside of Nintendo were still published by Nintendo and developed almost like they were on commission. Obviously, Nintendo opened up to 3rd party devs early on (licensed, of course) and the whole industry changed, but it was still up to the platform owners to almost exclusively support their own platform early on. Hudson seemed to be offering their services to court 3rd parties. The terms must’ve been good since a lot of them turned over their IPs to Hudson.

 

In the case of Fighting Street, it was also the era that Nintendo had an exclusive agreement with Capcom for Street Fighter II. My guess is that there was some concern that Nintendo would not be happy seeing Street Fighter-anything on a Hudson/NEC platform, so they switched the name around and buried Capcom’s name.

 

Another Capcom title is Ghouls‘N Ghosts for SuperGrafx.

Edited March 6, 2018 by CZroe