Mclaneinc Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) Regardless of what They say, lead solder & a used, professional, sky-blue, temperature-controlled Weller soldering station off of ebay takes all of the guesswork out of soldering. Radio shack soldering irons are great for destroying traces on a PCB... get a good blue "microprocessor-controlled" Weller, and never worry about lifting traces, ever again. Yes indeed but if you can't afford one of those beauty's then I'd suggest an 18W Antex or even a 15W if its small work, never lifted a trace in my life with those but then again as 25W and 30W irons are so common and there's a lot of people who have never done a soldering course (I'd recommend the HeathKit one if they are still around, expensive but very good kits / courses) and lift traces / tracks because they leave the iron on the pad for too long. 30W irons with those tips that would look ok on a road digger equals disaster waiting to happen, with one of those its easy to get a swimming pool of micro surface mount stuff. Apart fom leaving the iron too long on a spot the other big mistake is to use too much solder, you are not trying to weld a battleship together, once its started to flow take the solder away. Thankfully on old PCB's the pads are a fair distance from each other even on IC's but the new PCB these days are a hairs width apart in most cases and over soldering just means linked joints. Edited April 21, 2015 by Mclaneinc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Z Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) I don't wear gloves when I solder and I don't have good ventilation where I solder. I find some soldering challenging enough without loosing any dexterity. Also, the garage would be the only place at home I could really get decent ventilation, but it is not conducive to the task. I suppose I probably get more lead from handling ammunition anyway. Well, my point was that the flux fumes are your biggest concern. Whether you use leaded or unleaded solder, you still have flux and associated fumes. The lead exposure as a single person soldering in a reasonably sized room is likely below the OSHA limits, so you're fine there. And as far as ventilation, cracking the window would be fine, or even leaving the door open to allow the fumes to dilute into the whole house would be plenty of 'ventilation.' Regardless, if you feel unsafe with leaded solder, feel free to use lead free, I won't stop you. Isn't this the same "They" that painted all ship's hulls below the waterline with red-lead for over a hundred years, sank innumerable tons of ships filled with innumerable tons of lead ammunition & leaded oil onboard in every ocean, sea, and large lake, and lobbed innumerable tons of lead artillery-fire into the water-table of mainland Europe, up until a few years ago? Ha. This "They" that you speak of also said that it was fine & dandy for kids to play with lead soldiers, & lead toys of every description, for hundreds of years, ha. Yes, it was this "They" that allowed & encouraged Leaded Petroleum for automobiles, until fairly recently. Ha. So nice that They are looking out for us, nowadays. Landfill & Groundwater, Ha! The nerve! lol. Regardless of what They say, lead solder & a used, professional, sky-blue, temperature-controlled Weller soldering station off of ebay takes all of the guesswork out of soldering. Radio shack soldering irons are great for destroying traces on a PCB... get a good blue "microprocessor-controlled" Weller, and never worry about lifting traces, ever again. Do you think you can try to leave the politics out of it? You having a certain hatred or disapproval of the hypocrisy of "They" doesn't contribute much to the useful content of this discussion. This is how arguments end up starting, and every once in a while they get out of control, and then the thread locks. An otherwise useful, informative thread. And to be clear, "They," as I use it, was meant to mean pretty much the whole world. I'm pretty sure every country other than developing, third-world nations have banned the use of lead in commercial electronics manufacturing except for certain purposes where the safety risk of not using it exceeds the environmental cost, like avionics, where they still use leaded solder (for good reason, IMO). EDIT: just to be clear, if the "They" that you are referring to is the one I think you mean, then I agree with what you said. Nevertheless, for the sake of not derailing the thread, I'm asking nicely (that is my intention) to stay on the topic of Atari. Thank you. Edited April 21, 2015 by Joey Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNIXcoffee928 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 EDIT: just to be clear, if the "They" that you are referring to is the one I think you mean, then I agree with what you said. Nevertheless, for the sake of not derailing the thread, I'm asking nicely (that is my intention) to stay on the topic of Atari. Thank you. Relax. I'm just a Friendly Lead Salesman. Read it a few more times until you find it funny. As far as I can tell, my post is completely on topic, it says: - Buy Leaded Solder - Buy a used Weller Soldering Station I have always had a high regard for the content of your posts, & I will presume that you were just having a bad day when you typed the vitriol above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Z Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Relax. I'm just a Friendly Lead Salesman. Read it a few more times until you find it funny. As far as I can tell, my post is completely on topic, it says: - Buy Leaded Solder - Buy a used Weller Soldering Station I have always had a high regard for the content of your posts, & I will presume that you were just having a bad day when you typed the vitriol above. I can't relax any more than I already was. You do say to buy leaded solder and get a used weller, but you also have a paragraph twice as large that seems to indicate a dislike with the hypocrisy of "They." That's was I was referring to. If you intended this to be comedic or sarcastic, I misunderstood and I apologize. It's just too hard to tell when someone is serious or not sometimes. I've seen too many threads on here derailed by politics and off topic stuff, not to mention derailed by on-topic stuff to just leave it alone. In other words, I was telling you to relax, perhaps when you were not worked up, and if that's the case, I apologize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNIXcoffee928 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I can't relax any more than I already was. You do say to buy leaded solder and get a used weller, but you also have a paragraph twice as large that seems to indicate a dislike with the hypocrisy of "They." That's was I was referring to. If you intended this to be comedic or sarcastic, I misunderstood and I apologize. It's just too hard to tell when someone is serious or not sometimes. I've seen too many threads on here derailed by politics and off topic stuff, not to mention derailed by on-topic stuff to just leave it alone. In other words, I was telling you to relax, perhaps when you were not worked up, and if that's the case, I apologize. Whaddya work for the effin' EPA? Give me a break. Look, Junior, if you want to keep poking at a Bag Full of Rattlesnakes, just to see what will happen, then you are doing a great job. Your generation's lack of attention-span is not my problem. It strikes me that you're the kind of guy that would give Voltaire a bad book review, just to see what would happen, or the kind of guy that would throw a can of beer at David Lee Roth's head, on-stage, just to see what would happen. Your curiosity amuses me. Other than that, I will further maintain that lead-based solder & a temperature controlled Weller soldering station is the way to go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellis Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Whaddya work for the effin' EPA? Give me a break. Look, Junior, if you want to keep poking at a Bag Full of Rattlesnakes, just to see what will happen, then you are doing a great job. Your generation's lack of attention-span is not my problem. It strikes me that you're the kind of guy that would give Voltaire a bad book review, just to see what would happen, or the kind of guy that would throw a can of beer at David Lee Roth's head, on-stage, just to see what would happen. Your curiosity amuses me. Other than that, I will further maintain that lead-based solder & a temperature controlled Weller soldering station is the way to go. FWIW, I'm of your generation and I interpreted your original post exactly as Joey Z did, but this is the internet, so I shrugged it off in a "it takes all kinds of people" sort of way. That said, I wouldn't poke at him too much. You know what your intent and tone was, but I don't think everyone received it the same way as you intended. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Apropos of the EPA-hate here ... there's a solid medical reason behind the old phrase, "Mad as a hatter," and there's plenty of solid medical and epidemiological data linking the decline in many type of violent crime (especially among older teens and young adults) with the elimination of leaded gasoline. Sorry to interrupt the obligatory GovernmentHate that's so prevalent these days, but google is your friend if you choose to disbelieve. That said, I learned to solder in the 70's with leaded solder, and I've done a very little bit more recently with the lead-free variety. Lead-free sucks in comparison but it works if you're careful and take your time. For a once-in-awhile repair I doubt the use of leaded solder matters (especially for an adult brain living in an adult body already dealing with worse medical issues like obesity, hypertension, lung disease) ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlowingGhoul Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) Apropos of the EPA-hate here ... there's a solid medical reason behind the old phrase, "Mad as a hatter," and there's plenty of solid medical and epidemiological data linking the decline in many type of violent crime (especially among older teens and young adults) with the elimination of leaded gasoline. Sorry to interrupt the obligatory GovernmentHate that's so prevalent these days, but google is your friend if you choose to disbelieve. That said, I learned to solder in the 70's with leaded solder, and I've done a very little bit more recently with the lead-free variety. Lead-free sucks in comparison but it works if you're careful and take your time. For a once-in-awhile repair I doubt the use of leaded solder matters (especially for an adult brain living in an adult body already dealing with worse medical issues like obesity, hypertension, lung disease) ... Correlation is not causation, and the biggest drop in violent crime coincides precisely with increased rates of incarceration and longer sentences for violent crime. Violent crime rates did not change in Europe or Japan when leaded gasoline was phased out. ...and if you're going to have use incendiary phrases like "obligatory Government Hate" I'm going to respectfully suggest that you look to your parents for benevolence, not the government. As hard as it may be to believe, the government doesn't care one iota about you, including whether you live or die. Now back to the topic I originally started this thread for. Edited April 21, 2015 by GlowingGhoul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Ask the epidemiologists about it. You'll be surprised. The only thing harsher sentences and greater rates of incarceration has done for certain is create an entire prison-industrial complex that exists nowhere else in the world but the good old USA. It's also made for-profit prison companies insane amounts of money. How's that for correlation? And as for what you THINK I believe about the government, well, suffice it to say I probably know a lot more about than you realize. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Z Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Apropos of the EPA-hate here ... there's a solid medical reason behind the old phrase, "Mad as a hatter," and there's plenty of solid medical and epidemiological data linking the decline in many type of violent crime (especially among older teens and young adults) with the elimination of leaded gasoline. Sorry to interrupt the obligatory GovernmentHate that's so prevalent these days, but google is your friend if you choose to disbelieve. That said, I learned to solder in the 70's with leaded solder, and I've done a very little bit more recently with the lead-free variety. Lead-free sucks in comparison but it works if you're careful and take your time. For a once-in-awhile repair I doubt the use of leaded solder matters (especially for an adult brain living in an adult body already dealing with worse medical issues like obesity, hypertension, lung disease) ... I thought that was due to the mercury use, not lead? Could be wrong though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNIXcoffee928 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 This is what I said: Isn't this the same "They" that painted all ship's hulls below the waterline with red-lead for over a hundred years, sank innumerable tons of ships filled with innumerable tons of lead ammunition & leaded oil onboard in every ocean, sea, and large lake, and lobbed innumerable tons of lead artillery-fire into the water-table of mainland Europe, up until a few years ago? Ha. This "They" that you speak of also said that it was fine & dandy for kids to play with lead soldiers, & lead toys of every description, for hundreds of years, ha. Yes, it was this "They" that allowed & encouraged Leaded Petroleum for automobiles, until fairly recently. Ha. So nice that They are looking out for us, nowadays. Landfill & Groundwater, Ha! The nerve! lol. Regardless of what They say, lead solder & a used, professional, sky-blue, temperature-controlled Weller soldering station off of ebay takes all of the guesswork out of soldering. Radio shack soldering irons are great for destroying traces on a PCB... get a good blue "microprocessor-controlled" Weller, and never worry about lifting traces, ever again. My gawd man, must I deconstruct it? My only intention was humor... The lead-significant (he said "lead", lol), bold, italicized usage of the word "they", the repeated endings of the word "Ha" , the double meaning of saying "The nerve!" (self-referencing nerve damage caused by lead exposure), the use of "lol" at the end... Sometimes I like to give people a good snicker, to liven their day, and I personally found it to be quite funny when I typed it. However, I can now see how, perhaps, Adderall, or Fluoxetine consumption could potentially cloud the reader's judgment, in this day and age when everyone is looking for something to freak out about... Long time AtariAge users probably rolled their eyes, in flummoxed disbelief, at my remarkable use of politeness, respect, patience, and the extent to which I was kind enough to fire a warning shot across the bow for such a "Conditional Apology". lol. That being said, here's a quick guide to Humor 101. When you see things like this, as a correct human response, you are supposed to laugh, you are not supposed to get up a posse with William Phips & Tipper Gore. Just so you know. You are not supposed to sharpen the tines of your pitchforks, and gather torch-making supplies. Just so you know. Now, just pretend that you know, and everything will be ok. Other than that, I will further maintain that lead-based solder & a temperature controlled Weller soldering station is the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I thought that was due to the mercury use, not lead? Could be wrong though. Oops. You are correct. Hatters suffered from mercury poisoning rather than lead. Still, it's neurological dysfunction brought about by exposure to a chemically-active metal that shouldn't be ingested. Lead, mercury, arsenic, cadmium ... lots of metals should be avoided as much as possible, especially if exposed in enclosed places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNIXcoffee928 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 w-11_6_1926-born_Frank-carson-Its-a-cracker-and-Its-the-way-I-tell-em-600-.jpg Says the dude who sounds like a dead-ringer for Chronos from Venom, lol. OK, I've dissed enough of my friends today, I'm done. = ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Good job... We're all bereft of ribs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNIXcoffee928 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Good job... We're all bereft of ribs. Lol, then my work is done, here. Good day, sir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 w-11_6_1926-born_Frank-carson-Its-a-cracker-and-Its-the-way-I-tell-em-600-.jpg I find the term cracker offensive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNIXcoffee928 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNzzXzqccZY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujidude Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I don't have good ventilation where I can do my soldering. Maybe there is some kind of fume sucker that's worth a crap. I use leaded solder and plan to regardless though. I don't solder very often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) I log off and then return in the morning to find the thread has gone totally daft, and all without my help, I'm losing it.. People have to understand that its my job to lead threads miles off topic and fill it with poor humour Who would have thought solder could be so anarchic. Edited April 22, 2015 by Mclaneinc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Judging by the thread, it looks to me like lead vaporises far more liberally than previously supposed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNIXcoffee928 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I log off and then return in the morning to find the thread has gone totally daft, and all without my help, I'm losing it.. People have to understand that its my job to lead threads miles off topic and fill it with poor humour Who would have thought solder could be so anarchic. Yeah, at some point, after your watch, things went straight to hell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) OH no's...The Devil is in da house... And 666 will maybe lift a trace Edited April 22, 2015 by Mclaneinc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNIXcoffee928 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 ...666 will maybe lift a trace That's the original lyric that Bruce Dickinson wrote. The other guys in the band made him change it, because they didn't think that the average listener would get it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujidude Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 666... the number of the trace fumes and fire... are coming for your face Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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