flashjazzcat Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 First suggestion: good idea and I think I considered that but didn't want to scroll through multiple options just in order to disable SDX. I see the objective, though. 'SIDE Cart ROM' doesn't belong in that list, though, since the SIDE ROM and SDX are not mutually exclusive (you can have both SDX and the SIDE Cart ROM enabled, and if the SIDE allows a disk boot, you can enter the cart from the SDX command line via the 'CAR' command in the usual manner, as with any other cartridge). The existing options are mutually exclusive, however, which is why it's impossible to enable more than one at a time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) I think it's a possibility that Sparta slot and GUI slot could be running at same time, or another DOS and GUI etc.. so maybe separate slot is still needed but the rest of it still wouldn't make sense if you have a cart and sparta x running at same time so I think FJC's new format makes sense and wouldn't twiddle with the rest of it. The Rom toggle makes sense to be located near the basic rom itself.. so yes that makes perfect flow and sense Edited February 5, 2019 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 I think it's a possibility that Sparta and GUI could be running at same time, or another DOS and GUI etc.. so maybe separate slot is still needed but the rest of it would make sense. The GOS and SDX will never be running at the same time, since the GOS does not require a separate DOS. And if the GOS slot is repurposed for anything else (which it may be, as can the SDX slot: the slot names for both are editable), it could allow the booting of a disk-based DOS. Enabling SDX and trying to repurpose the GOS slot as a banked cart won't work, since the GOS slot cannot appear as an external cart to SDX and even shares its banking register. That's why the options are mutually exclusive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) yeah, the fact you can put whatever you want in a slot and can name it means it should stay as is for those slots, having the on off toggle near the rom is still the good route, it just makes sense. I was still editing when you responded... I tend to take a while sorting out my thoughts within a post. Then I read it and go back and edit again as I dropped words or letters... Edited February 5, 2019 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) No worries. I forgot to mention the other reason the boot ROM options aren't in a list: if you opt to use a 320KB SDX ROM, the GOS slot no longer exists and is greyed out. Dynamically removing items from the ROM-encoded list isn't currently possible (the menu engine is complex enough), and I think greying out inactive options is arguably more informative than preventing them from showing up in a list. Edited February 5, 2019 by flashjazzcat 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) I think we have our answers. I am having great lag posting and ready AA again... is this a windows update day? when the whole of the internet crawls as all the machines poll themselves and phone home to m$ servers all at once? and just like that, windows has 1 important update and 6 optional updates.. pffft just knew it... there it is... Edited February 5, 2019 by _The Doctor__ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 8, 2019 Author Share Posted February 8, 2019 (edited) It appears that the 'SIDE Cart ROM' option works just as well as a general purpose 'Cartridge ROM' option: Even on the 1088XEL - which has no real use for a SIDE cartridge (owing to the internal XEL-CF HDD) nor the SIDE ATR Swap Button mechanism (XEL-CF3 has its own button mechanism) - the button bit serves as a useful on/off switch for any cartridge plugged into the machine. The same functionality works on standard machines (with SIDE's external cart ROM or any other cartridge that's plugged in). Furthermore, this hardware still holds surprises for those of us who haven't seen the VHDL code. The button/cart disable bit works even if the PBI BIOS is disabled entirely. Edited February 8, 2019 by flashjazzcat 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Robot Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 You mean I can turn off my Ultimate Cart from the menu after the next update without needing to press the on/off button? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 8, 2019 Author Share Posted February 8, 2019 You mean I can turn off my Ultimate Cart from the menu after the next update without needing to press the on/off button? Haven't tested the Ultimate Cart yet, but I see no reason why that wouldn't be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Robot Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 That's great, thank you! This means that IF an XEL compatible Dracarys board ever shows up I won't need to mod it to add my pushbutton That's a big IF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 8, 2019 Author Share Posted February 8, 2019 Is 'Dracarys' the Ethernet cart? Or a drink? Or am I thinking of Daiquiri? Definitely don't pour cocktails in the cart port, anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 8, 2019 Author Share Posted February 8, 2019 BTW: If - as I would expect - the Ethernet cart simply presents some ports and control registers in the CCTL area, I don't think this feature will actually take those registers off the bus. It's really intended to suppress the ROM via RD4/RD5 control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 9, 2019 Author Share Posted February 9, 2019 (edited) Looks like this only works with 8K carts and doesn't fully suppress 16K carts, so I'll probably repeal it and replace it with the original 'SIDE Cart ROM' setting. The 1088XEL will have the button bit permanently set to 0, as before (SIDE ROM management being an irrelevance on that machine). Edited February 9, 2019 by flashjazzcat 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 (edited) am I following correctly that if someone does not use the cf card option, but uses a side2 on the 1088xel it will it still be okay with the bit set to zero? As the side cart rom will be in the u1m but no other rom could be in that slot and still use the side2. Edited February 9, 2019 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 9, 2019 Author Share Posted February 9, 2019 To use a SIDE2 on the 1088XEL you need to: Flash the 1088XEL SIDE2 U1MB BIOS plugin Flash the standard U1MB PBI BIOS Flash the standard U1MB Loader You'll then lose the XEL-CF HDD but the machine will work exactly like a standard U1MB Atari with a SIDE cart plugged into it. With the standard 1088XEL firmware and plugin, cartridges will work as normal 100 per cent of the time since the SIDE button bit is forced to 0 as was previously the case. On an XL/XE, the cartridge ROM will only be suppressed when the PBI HDD is enabled and 'SIDE Cart ROM' is 'Disabled'. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 I am either so stressed out from all the new stuff I am having to learn at a breakneck pace forwork, or just generally too old to remember details for any length of time. Why is it that I can still remember almost every Atari BASIC error code, my childhood phone number, etc. but new stuff doesn't want to stick. I am going to have to keep a binder of directions next to my beloved Atari now since I only get to use it a few times a year. Sad times indeed. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 9, 2019 Author Share Posted February 9, 2019 This probably seems more complex than it is. Set 'SIDE Cart ROM' to disabled on standard U1MB machines, and on the 1088XEL don't worry about it since the option won't exist. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 I am either so stressed out from all the new stuff I am having to learn at a breakneck pace forwork, or just generally too old to remember details for any length of time. Why is it that I can still remember almost every Atari BASIC error code, my childhood phone number, etc. but new stuff doesn't want to stick. I am going to have to keep a binder of directions next to my beloved Atari now since I only get to use it a few times a year. Sad times indeed. It all seems like Common Sense to me. Commies and Crapples confuse me (along with 'Win' 10 [which is no longer real Windows]). I am an XP guy. I can do anything with it. I prefer to use a Crapple over a 'Win' 10 system. YUCK! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Come on Kyle stop holding back. You can tell us what you really think about those non-Atari computers . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) Commies and Crapples confuse me (along with 'Win' 10 [which is no longer real Windows]). I am an XP guy. I can do anything with it. I prefer to use a Crapple over a 'Win' 10 system. YUCK! I have had no specific objections to Windows 10 in day-to-day use, particularly since older Windows versions now look extremely dated to me. But around the time of the 'Fall Creators' Update', some strangeness with drivers started and at this point my main PC will not reliably wake up from a sleep state. Regarding Apple: the hilarious irony is that (as someone who dabbles in Hackintoshing from time to time) I observed that macOS Sierra (when it was installed on this PC) had no problems whatsoever waking from sleep on this completely unsupported hardware. Meanwhile, Windows 10 will commonly fail to run correctly on the hardware for which it was explicitly designed. Edited February 10, 2019 by flashjazzcat 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 I am either so stressed out from all the new stuff I am having to learn at a breakneck pace forwork, or just generally too old to remember details for any length of time. Why is it that I can still remember almost every Atari BASIC error code, my childhood phone number, etc. but new stuff doesn't want to stick. I am going to have to keep a binder of directions next to my beloved Atari now since I only get to use it a few times a year. Sad times indeed. Don't sweat it, I used to know almost every code in the Maplin catalogue, I knew all the op codes and most of the important addresses in the OS, now because of the lack of every day use I struggle with most of them when I do bother. Its purely from the lack of every day use rather than becoming an old git, as an old git myself I know the issue well. Making a binder is the logical useful thing to do but unless you are doing anything on a regular basis memory tends to favour the newer stuff it gets 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 My Win10 box (2+ year old Alienware gaming laptop) runs great. Win10 has its usability quirks, to be sure, especially if you're coming from something older than, say, Win7. And bear in mind, I used XP for many years myself, and a lot of the computers I use at work are still Win7. I also used OS X and Macs personally and professionally from 2003 through late 2016 so I'm well aware of OS X's advantages and disadvantages as well. By and large Win10 blows all the prior versions of Windows away in ease of day to day use and modern look and feel for mainstream use like most businesses need on modern hardware - Office applications and, in my specific case, very specialized/niched hosted web applications running inside browsers. Those apps simply will not work at all with ancient browsers made for XP, not to mention the inevitable slew of unpatched security holes in the system code and programs that run on XP. A lot of this issue people complain about with Win10 ("My devices don't wake from sleep!" "I can't find XYZ feature that used to be right here!" ) are the same complaints people had when we all first installed the experimental public builds of XP in transition from Win98. Hardware drivers and different OS design philosophies are usually to blame - most machines today are used in work settings and idle power usage is a much bigger deal when you have hundreds of machines sitting there powered on 24 hours a day … Companies WANT to save every microwatt they can, and an interface card falling asleep for a moment isn't a big deal for what they need. And if you have a specialized application (like say a data center or health care equipment control), there are specialized OS builds and companies that specialize rolling them out and maintaining the machines and software that run CT and PET scanners, medical cyclotrons, etc., whether those systems are running on special builds of Windows, Linux or something else. Whatever the kernel, the main installation for those life-critical applications will not be the same as what a home user has on his machine. As an aside, I will also add that when I get around to getting a new machine in another 1-3 years, if I don't just go the easy route and buy another gaming laptop, I'll build a machine again (for the first time since 2002) and I'll probably dual-boot Windows and Ubuntu. I have an Ubuntu installation in VirtualBox running inside Win10 on this machine and I like it quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 I agree with most of that, but Windows 10's been around for what - two years now? - and since I'm not running insider previews, I take badly to something as basic as power management becoming flaky after it worked perfectly well for the better part of two years on the same hardware. I forgave the webcam driver nightmares (which we might reasonably blame on Logitech for not bothering to publish updates) after they kind of went away a year or so back, but the problem is that every major update carries the possibility of something getting screwed up, and that causes me to get frustrated and waste a lot of time. There's as saying: 'If it works, don't update it', but that's not possible (or even necessarily advisable) with this OS. As I say: I'm not throwing shade at Windows 10 since I like it enough to use it every day for productivity purposes, but OS update time is like a game of Russian roulette. And of course I'm not an NPC end-user; I'm prepared to get my hands dirty, but I still haven't nailed the wake-up issue. Probably I will when I devote some time to it. In the meantime, I agree that the inability of the machine to come out of standby is an excellent power-saving feature. Really ingenious. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) windows ten is no longer your window out to the world, it is the worlds windows into you... and you don't own that copy of the o.s. it can be shut down at any time...k and of course, there is nothing like the panicked phone calls of techs from universities after a flood of calls from students who think the network is broken down or otherwise.... oh wait it's break it roulette day... let's verify it's all good with our own test case machines... yep it works... phew... okay now to tell them all the bad news... microsoft is 'working on a fix' (for what they just broke) .... why don't they just roll it back in the update stream till it's fixed? so go ahead and throw shade on win 10... it's been terrible for a couple years, it barfed on at least a few machines when they updated them from 8.1 to 10 without permission, then they couldn't be rolled back, had to be backed up (what could be) by pulling the drive, then USB stick for re install of old os and the delightful symphony of finding all the drivers and updates and rebuilding what you could from the back up. lets not even get into the ones that were upgraded from previous versions of windows to 8.x and then the win10 push happened. What a bad thing to do... later they changed the way they pushed out 10, but the damage had been done. Edited February 10, 2019 by _The Doctor__ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) On top of all that, it just looks flat and ugly! Edit: It's what they did with the Themes! I like my blue start button with a waving flag! Edited February 10, 2019 by Kyle22 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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