Muzz73 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Hello, all... I have only come into TI hardware in the last couple of years (though I always liked them) and only have black & silver consoles, myself. I have this question... Are all beige consoles the cost reduced revision? If not, how do we tell them apart? I've also heard that the cost reduced models have less circuitry and run cooler. Is this true? Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabrice montupet Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) Hi If you look at the right side of the computer, you'll see the bus extension connector. If it looks like this: You have a cost reduced version of the TI-99/4A (TI-99/4QI). And if the metalic parts around the connector look like this (they are identical in classic silver and beige TI-99/4A computers) : ...It's the classic beige TI-99/4A. Yes, the TI-99/4QI has less circuit by using Gate Array. It has also lost the big metalic shield of the TI-99/4A. To dissipate de heat of the TMS9918, the QI has a heat sink installed on the VDP.I have never noticed that my QI computer run cooler. PS: The QI version has also an orange mark on the power button, it is blue on the classic beige TI-99/4A.But the better way to 100% identify the version of the computer is to open the case and to look at the motherboard. Edited August 6, 2015 by fabrice montupet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willsy Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 IIRC there are two variants: The first is a standard motherboard (same as silver console) in a beige case. The other variant was beige, with an optimised motherboard: some of the discrete 74 type logic ICs on the original motherboard were mopped up into one or more PAL/GAL type devices. As far as I know, the later motherboard was only in the beige model, but there could be some crossover I guess. I'm not aware of any changes to the internal power supply board during the lifetime of the 4A but I wouldn't be surprised if it also got optimised in some way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabrice montupet Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) This QI version saved only pennies...in better cases. The very few 74LS replaced must cost less than the new IC CF40050.They could better like also using 2 TMS-4416 instead of the 8 TMS-4116 for the VDP RAM, but they didn't.No real optimization in the TI-99/4QI, just a failed good idea. Edited August 6, 2015 by fabrice montupet 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazoo Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I'm not aware of any changes to the internal power supply board during the lifetime of the 4A but I wouldn't be surprised if it also got optimised in some way. There was an upgrade to the power supply that made it into a switching supply. Only 2 wires were used for input instead of 3, and it runs much cooler. It's recognizable by the many electrolytic caps on the board. Gazoo 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabrice montupet Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Not all the QI computers have the new (2 pins) power supply. Here is a picture of it: Some QI computers always have the classic power supply. In all case, with the new or the old (4 pins) power supply, I haven't noticed real difference of heat emission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globeron Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 (see picture). I did not know the internals as described above (except the bronze vs silver I/O port springs and the "mylar" keyboard (Brown PCB-board) vs "switched" keyboard (green PCB-board). Other difference: 1. blue on/off button ("old style") similar as the silver/black and 1981 operating system 2. red on/off button - QI has 1981 operating system 3. there is also a beige QI version which has an 1983 V2.2 operating system (so that 3rd party modules cannot work, like the Atari ones) (I do not have this one, but if you want to experience "V2.2" then download the Classic99 emulator it is built-in) PS. Classic99 has also the /4 Operating system of 1979 built-in, which was used in the silver/black /4 (red button for shift and red button for enter ones on the picture). the /4 ones differ (1 with volume slider and internal speaker and earphone plug) and 1 with solid state software label and earphone plug. (but no volume slider and no speaker) The difference between the /4A ones on the picture is the "Solid state software" label (the old mold of the /4 to cover the volume slider area) and the new mold without this. (**PS, I need to change the beige keyboard here, as it is my 1st TI, but it had the "mylar" keyboard which broke down, I will swap it with another /4A, but did not had time to do that yet). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz73 Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 Wonderful! I have been planning on grabbing another console or two as backups and wanted to make sure I knew what to look for. This has been very helpful. Thank you all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabrice montupet Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 @globeron: Nice TI-99/4 Familly I have all of them too, plus the V2.2 Computer 99/4A and the CDC-99/4A.The CDC-99/4A is a mofified v2.2 TI-99/4QI sold by Control Data Corp with a CDC monitor (Zenith Data Systems), the Palto Interpreter cartridge, a PEB (with CDC stickers) and educational software. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globeron Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Wow! (I have been many times to your website (via translate.google.com) as my French is limited, but it is very nice and I learned a lot about other TI-99 systems (/4B,./5, etc.), including Tomy Tutor, CDC http://www.ti99.com/cdc994a.htm (I know you prefer the real equipment above the emulator), but I just did a check if the CDC was listed in MESS (only a few other CDCs are listed) CDC721 Terminal). >> Maybe it should be preserved? MESS emulator and TI-versions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynSJJMxJ3sc RE: Plato Interpreter: >> Coincidentally 2-3 weeks ago I went one by one through the Plato Software list (together with Schmitzi) and had a discussion >> with Ben on FaceBook TI99ers as well. Platolist.zip Maybe people have these type of lists, but there were errors in it, or there missing modules (e.g Biology 3 "5-8" were not listed). (if there are still missing modules for Plato let me know, but I am pretty sure this list is complete now as I went through several lists) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Then there are the Argentine consoles with a 1982 Copyright date on the screen--and a slightly different keyboard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sometimes99er Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Then there are the Argentine consoles with a 1982 Copyright date on the screen--and a slightly different keyboard. You got a picture ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabrice montupet Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 @Gobleron: Thank you !Yes, I prefer real hardware and I use very few emulators, but they are very usefull for many people, so I will be happy if I can help by any ways @Jim: It's an Interresting information, thank you! I don't have the Argentine TI-99/4A.with a different keyboard. I think that I have found a picture of it :http://mla-s2-p.mlstatic.com/texas-ti994-funcionando-en-caja-ind-argimpecable-extras-235601-MLA20367995097_082015-F.jpgCan you confirm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Schmitzi Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Hi, thanks, cool infos so, some questions please, for my list: @Jim and @Fabrice: so, this Argentina is 1982, but not "QI", right ? @Globeron and @All So, for the 99/4A´s, we have: 1. V1 silver with SSC-label 1981 2. V1 silver without SSC-label 1981 3. V1 beige blue button 1981 4. V1 beige red button QI 1981 (edited) 5. V1 beige blue button Argentina 1982 6. v2.2 beige red button QI 1983 7. v2.2 beige red button QI ControlData 1984 1983? (edited) do they all exist as US (ntsc) AND EU (pal) - version ? So, this means at leat more than 12 types ? Or only some of them as PAL, too ? (Maybe the ControlData was only built for the US-market ? ) If I got some answers and fiddled it out in my list, I´ll show it here, for further fiddling Makes no sense at the moment as I did not differ by the types, just counted all my TI´s in one entry I´ll have to walk through all my TI´s this weekend, make some pics. And also have to find out where my v2.2 is hiding I am still sad about missing a CDC in about 2003.......(ebay) thanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabrice montupet Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 I don't think that the TI-99/4QI received V1 system. Those equiped with this version instead of the V2.2 have surely been downgraded by the user by changing GROM0I don't know if there is an Argentina QI. May be Jim could answer.My CDC 99/4A has been produced in Lubbock, in 1984 (LTA 1384). Mine came from the USA, it never been sold in France. I never saw EU TI-99/4QI computers. But EU beige 99/4A exit (in France, at least) , i bought one in the middle of 80's. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 On the various Argentine issues, here are pictures of the entire series. Take a good look at the closeup picture of the keyboards in the 1982 versions. . .one in Black and one in Beige. I have a Black one. BTW, the site has a lot of interesting pictures of the various Argentine TI releases and books (although I also have several books that they don't include in their listing). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabrice montupet Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) Thank you! Now I see the difference between an US and the Argentina keyboard, The "Ñ" has been added.I posted above the picture of a beige 99/4 taken from argentina website because the keyboard shown has more angular edges than the other keyboards and I thought that it was the difference. In fact, it's not. Edited August 7, 2015 by fabrice montupet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Schmitzi Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Ok, I have just edited/changed this console-infos it in the post above. Will check my list now, thanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Schmitzi Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 So, this just as a beta-list, a first starter before counting/differing my consoles: (my v2.2QI-one ist listed here as EU (=PAL), but maybe I entered it wrong, years ago. will be checked.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Thee are a LOT of Beige consoles with the QI board out there using the V1 ROMs--although I have only seen these as NTSC releases. The V2.2 ROMs were used on some Beige PAL consoles in Argentina though. Note also that only the two versions of the consoles sold in Argentina with the 1982 ROMs had the "Ñ" added to the keyboard, the other types did not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Schmitzi, you should also add the Black console to the types for Argentina with a 1982 ROM date. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Schmitzi Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 we have a list for all:) but I definitely have to 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabrice montupet Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Some years ago, I talked with a person who worked at TI Lubbock during the TI-99 period. He told me that the QI was one of the parts of a big TI plan to reduce production costs and increase margins. And preventing software companies to sell cartridges without paying the TI GROM Licence was one of these parts too. So, integrate V2.2 system in the QI computers makes sense for TI. The TI-99/4QI with Gate Array was produced between august 1983 and march 1984. The system installed was V2.2. But people were angry with this computer because no Atari cartridge was compatible, so most of these computers were downgraded to V1 by the users. And it was easy to do the operation: TI directly sold the GROM Chip for a little less than 4$. Resellers make also the operation for a low price (no solderings, the GROM chip to change is socketed). This is why we also find QI computers with V1 system. This reminds me an anecdote. In 1984, my TI-99/4A has been fried because of a thunderstorm. So my daddy has brought the computer to the reseller for repair who has brought the computer to TI customers service. After one month, we have received the computer repaired but I had the bad surprise to notice that some of my cartridges didn't worked anymore (and they always worked on the 99/4A of one of my friends) . So we have brought again the TI-99/4A for repair. Even the reseller was surprised and did not understand the computer behaviour. Some weeks later, we received again the computer and all was OK. After the first repair, I had well noticed that the system version was different than I had before but, at this time, I didn't understood what it happened to my TI-99/4A... I have understood the situation some time later, when I learned about the V2.2 restriction. Someone has the Corcomp '83 Module adapter'? It's a peripheral for v2.2 computers to bypass the restriction. I have never seen a picture of it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 If we have ROM dumps of the CDC I'd be happy to add the CDC into MESS as a TI clone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabrice montupet Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 I remember an assembler program you made to dump GROMs. Can you give me an address to download it?Thus, I will be able to give you all the GROM of the CDC-99/4A for MESS emulation :-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.