Papa Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) Just out of left field with this. What would it take to add just 4K more graphics RAM to the Atari VCS? Could a cart be made that adds more (like a Super Charger) that could then be accessed by Bb? I keep drifting into what if's and how stupendous games could be with just that tiny bit more. Could a newer version of Melody board be made that adds 4K extra or is this just not possible? ...So, that's what would have happened if I invented the finglonger. A man can dream. A man can dream. Edited August 9, 2015 by Papa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Just out of left field with this. What would it take to add just 4K more graphics RAM to the Atari VCS? Could a cart be made that adds more (like a Super Charger) that could then be accessed by Bb? I keep drifting into what if's and how stupendous games could be with just that tiny bit more. Could a newer version of Melody board be made that adds 4K extra or is this just not possible? ...So, that's what would have happened if I invented the finglonger. A man can dream. A man can dream. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 http://www.2600connection.com/articles/longevity/longevity.html Read that papa. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Just out of left field with this. What would it take to add just 4K more graphics RAM to the Atari VCS? Could a cart be made that adds more (like a Super Charger) that could then be accessed by Bb? I keep drifting into what if's and how stupendous games could be with just that tiny bit more. Could a newer version of Melody board be made that adds 4K extra or is this just not possible? ...So, that's what would have happened if I invented the finglonger. A man can dream. A man can dream. DPC+ really shows off the graphic capability of the Atari 2600. You're still limited by the TIA chip. Like the MMC5 chip for the NES. Awesome mapper chip, but still bound to the NES graphic capability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Just stick to the original specs and stay pure®! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 The secret to longevity of the VCS is that it is a difficult machine to work with. And only the most skilled and innovative programmers can make this machine shine. And that eliminates a lot of riffraff from the ranks. I know I've said this before, but the next most difficult machine to work with is the AGC. Limitations galore. Programs needing to be finalized 6 months ahead with no room for error.. Ohh sure the VCS has its share of doggy titles. However none of those titles are crafted with love, so they end up being me-too wannabees. And anybody today can churn out material on today's high-level languages running at thousands of MHz with millions of pre-made libraries - so that eliminates modern machines as being difficult. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) Why don't you prototype a VCS XM? Then you can take preorder moneys and we can all b!tch about it over the next 5 years until it finally arrives... Edited August 9, 2015 by stardust4ever 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 . . . that could then be accessed by Bb? For those who don't know, he's talking about batari Basic (bB). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Why don't you prototype a VCS XM? Then you can take preorder moneys and we can all b!tch about it over the next 5 years until it finally arrives... So how do you know its going to take 5 years? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyChris Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 http://www.2600connection.com/articles/longevity/longevity.html Read that papa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyChris Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Great article. Looks like everything you cold ever want / use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Posted August 9, 2015 Author Share Posted August 9, 2015 Just stick to the original specs and stay pure®! How about that Super Charger! Pure Awesome Sauce! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Why not release your homebrew on Super Charger then? You could distribute them on ordinary cassette tape. bB doesn't support it, but you could use assembly or vwBASIC. If you went the assembly route, you could even program it on an 8-bit computer! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr SQL Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Yes the SuperCharger is basically a 6K RAM expansion board Virtual World BASIC lets you use the extra RAM for graphics and variables and the games can run on Melody carts as well as Tape. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 Can it do a 32K game with the 6K extra? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Can it do a 32K game with the 6K extra? I guess 6K means 6K. What game did you have in mind, that would need 32K? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I guess 6K means 6K. What game did you have in mind, that would need 32K? There are already a number of games that use 32K through the miracles of bankswitching. I don't really understand this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 There are already a number of games that use 32K through the miracles of bankswitching. True, but the supercharger has 6K. I thought we were talking about the supercharger. Papa is new to bankswitching. But Batari Basic supports several bankswitching scheme's (iirc) so there should be no problem for Papa to make a 32K game. The supercharger was brought into the conversation to make the game more authentic I guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Aren't there enough schemes already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 I have currently programmed four games that use bankswitching. The SuperCharger has 6K of additional RAM that can be dedicated to graphics. After enabling scripts and compiling with vwBASIC I can see that it would be quite useful for many programs even with the limitations in size. 12K is the max with double SC and a little less with Super Charger or other games. All of the games I've made are 32K (I decided to use the highest amount that could easily be put onto cartridges). DPC+ may complicate that, but I've also use it for two games. Titan Axe is 32k bankswitching using the standard kernel. Run Out is 32K using DPC+ and my newest work, Street Fight World is 32K DPC+. I've been programming with Bb for over three years now. I like vwBasic (I will call it VolksWagon BASIC) and will be studying it while I finish up my latest DPC+ game. I am not new to this. I've programmed in C++, Visual Basic, Assembly (a little with my Coco, and I don't think well with it), and several other 'game-making' programs, like Game Builder, etc... I find Visual Bb to be so easy and yet limiting enough to express with that it fits me like a glove. I just want more than 4K total graphics memory, that's all. I could fit two more characters in my Street Fighter clone and all the backgrounds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2600 Forever Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 DPC+? WTF happened to all the purist nonsense? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 To be honest, Melody pretty much has everything a 2600 XM could possibly offer, in a smallish form factor (cart). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr SQL Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I have currently programmed four games that use bankswitching. The SuperCharger has 6K of additional RAM that can be dedicated to graphics. After enabling scripts and compiling with vwBASIC I can see that it would be quite useful for many programs even with the limitations in size. 12K is the max with double SC and a little less with Super Charger or other games. All of the games I've made are 32K (I decided to use the highest amount that could easily be put onto cartridges). DPC+ may complicate that, but I've also use it for two games. Titan Axe is 32k bankswitching using the standard kernel. Run Out is 32K using DPC+ and my newest work, Street Fight World is 32K DPC+. I've been programming with Bb for over three years now. I like vwBasic (I will call it VolksWagon BASIC) and will be studying it while I finish up my latest DPC+ game. I am not new to this. I've programmed in C++, Visual Basic, Assembly (a little with my Coco, and I don't think well with it), and several other 'game-making' programs, like Game Builder, etc... I find Visual Bb to be so easy and yet limiting enough to express with that it fits me like a glove. I just want more than 4K total graphics memory, that's all. I could fit two more characters in my Street Fighter clone and all the backgrounds. Awesome you are trying vwBASIC Papa! I like RunOut and Street Fight World, looking forward to seeing what you will build I guess 6K means 6K. 6K is closer to 32K if the code is compiled, vwBASIC supports about 32K of BASIC code: ...both gameloops can hold about 12-14K of code, but they share space for graphics and sound (shared with gameloop2) and array variables (shared with gameloop1). bB is compiled too so it's 32K config is holding something like 128K of BASIC source code. I think we should talk about the memory size available to BASIC to keep perspective. DPC+? WTF happened to all the purist nonsense? It would be interesting to see what kinds of games could be written with the Compumate - it had only 2K of RAM for BASIC code. 2K of memory for BASIC is challenging but it's a fairly usable size; the Altair only had 2K after loading Tiny BASIC from tape, same for the Bally Astrocade. If you really want to get hardcore you could see what you can do in just 63 bytes with Atari's BASIC Programming cartridge; that's kind of like the one-liner contests from bitd where you had to write a program in 80 or 255 characters depending upon what your BASIC's line length was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 I have considered trying to code the Atari BASIC cart just to see what could be done. Before my wife found Bb and downloaded it for me ("Hey..I bet you would really like this!") I was looking at the Compumate. I really don't like blister-keys though. I would tolerate it if it was all I had. I consider getting help from the ARM processor to build carts that play on the original system to fit into my own 'purist' ideals. I like assembly and all, but I just can't seem to get as creative with it as I can with BASIC. I really love the sprite maker and playfield drawing tools in Bb and I seem to think in BASIC. I have all those old books on BASIC programming for Amiga and Atari computers and toy with AMOS and QBasic as well, but the fun of just sitting down and getting results immediately, like with a visual environment or vwBASIC, is very exciting. vwBASIC will be my next learning endeavor. I like that it's been upgraded to include labels, but I also think there is nothing wrong with the simplicity of number lines. Now that I see that each loop can approach 12K compiled it seems bigger. One factor with DPC+ is that the first and last banks are taken up by the ARM code. I've also found that progressive scan capable CRT's don't like DPC+. I have HD and CRT TVs that play my games perfectly, but my Progressive Scan CRTs look terrible, with jitters and doubled sprites (something I use regularly to get bigger objects) tearing in half with poor sync. I will print the manual (although a much deeper explanation with more examples would be helpful) like I did with VBb and BasiEgaXorz (another endeavor). Thanks a LOT for the compliments on my latest work. It means a whole heck of a lot coming from someone like you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 DPC+? WTF happened to all the purist nonsense? Purist nonsense is just that, nonsense. Whatever you can stick in the slot is game! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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