Black Monday thoughts on the Jaguar...

[82-T/A]

So, with the stock market plunging, and red everywhere on my stock portfolios, I decided to open my liquor cabinet. I didn't find any whiskey, but did find a 1/3rd bottle of Grey Goose Vodka, which is French. I'm warming up to the French, particularly because of Orion's Jaguar games... and Napoleon was a pretty cool guy too. Still, I wanted some Jack Daniels and couldn't find any... so I had to settle for the Grey Goose. I also couldn't find any sprite, or anything else... and I only found a can of Ginger-ale... just pathetic on my part... but it'll do.

 

Keep in mind, I've been drinking for at least an hour before writing this, but something occurred to me. I've got this massive Jaguar collection. Nearly half my games I could sell for 500-600 bucks a piece on eBay right now. But realistically what I'll end up doing, is keeping them for another 20 years, and then when I do finally decide to sell them, no one will care anymore. I can't bring myself to sell them because I love playing it, even though I only play once or so a month. Does that make me a fan, or does that make me crazy? (or both?)

 

Discuss...

 

 

[sirlynxalot]

 

 

Keep in mind, I've been drinking for at least an hour before writing this, but something occurred to me. I've got this massive Jaguar collection. Nearly half my games I could sell for 500-600 bucks a piece on eBay right now. But realistically what I'll end up doing, is keeping them for another 20 years, and then when I do finally decide to sell them, no one will care anymore. I can't bring myself to sell them because I love playing it, even though I only play once or so a month. Does that make me a fan, or does that make me crazy? (or both?)

There's something to be said for this. It looks like you have unconsciously done the analysis in your head, you could get $1000+ if you liquidated all your jag stuff, but you have decided not to, because being able to play the Jag with the setup that you currently have, is worth more to you than what you would get if you liquidate it. Obviously if you have a collection where individual games would be several hundred bucks, you probably have a large amount of items that would be hard to replace in case you wanted to buy up the same items at a later date. Sometimes collections that have taken a long time to put together, or required more effort (money, luck, etc.) appear as more than just physical items, but reminders of interesting episodes of your life and what kind of person you are, reflective of your tastes, etc.

All of your items could be sold, but only you could determine what it is worth to you, and it seems like the amount you think you could get for it now, is not worth it to sell.

Personally, through experience I know that I tend to regret selling all items/liquidating a certain collection. I like re-evaluating what I own periodically, and maybe selling a few items, and then putting the money into other game items either at the time or to use as funds to justify a purchase at a later date.

[+madman]

Half your games could go for $500-600 each? Is half your collection Battlesphere carts?

[Clint Thompson]

Topic should have read: Stock Market prices down but Jaguar prices soar to a record high...

[Rick Dangerous]

If commodities traders had pro controllers, Jag CDs, and battlesphere carts to sell, the market would have risen 5% today..

[+SabertoothRetro]

I am a big believer in the retrogaming bubble and think that we're at the high point now. Anyone who wants to get out should do it now while someone will still pay $200 for a pro-controller and $300 for a Jag CD. In relation to today's crash, I say sell your Jaguar collection, buy stock at low prices and then, after the market recovers and the Jaguar bubble bursts, you can sell your stock high and buy back into Jaguar at a much lower rate. Genius.

 

FWIW - I sold my original collection of Jag games low (1998) because I got out of gaming altogether. I picked up a unit on liquidation about 4 years later with a handful of games but it stayed in storage until 2010 when I moved across country. It was hard to buy back into the scene five years ago but way less than it is today. I would rather keep my Jaguar collection intact than sell now than risk having to pay even more down the line when nostalgia grips. Its been my favorite console for 21 years and thats not going to change. I still want to have it when 58 in another 20 years. If its worth anything when I'm gone and the family sells it off, that'll be good for them. If not, maybe it'll be a once in a lifetime yard sale find for some random kid that knows what he's looking at.

Edited August 25, 2015 by atariLBC

[Willard]

in regard to retro gaming prices eventually declining... that's a tough one. prices have rather steadily increased. kind of like the stock market, you have to wonder, how high will it go and when will it drop? when it drops how far will it drop? will the value recover? Prices could yet double and worst case come back to todays prices. OR they could get nicked pretty bad. or they may never.

 

I personally don't collect on the basis of having my collection appreciate in value. I collect different systems for different reasons but they boil down to either (1) Playing the games (2) Documenting/preserving games that are extremely hard to find information on. So it doesn't really matter to me anyway. IMO older games have a historical characteristic that cannot really be replaced (maybe it's just me trying to justify nostalgia) and a lot of people have collecting habits, with retro games just being a popular thing to collect. I think that's an notable distinction between the stock market and games - people don't necessarily collect games solely for their appreciation in value or quarterly dividends.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Willard

[MAYAman]

I play my Jaguar weekly for the last 22 years. Keep it, you can't take anything with you when you die. Just have fun in your life. selling Battlemorphs are not life changing money.

[+madman]

I personally don't collect on the basis of having my collection appreciate in value. I collect different systems for different reasons but they boil down to either (1) Playing the games (2) Documenting/preserving games that are extremely hard to find information on. So it doesn't really matter to me anyway. IMO older games have a historical characteristic that cannot really be replaced (maybe it's just me trying to justify nostalgia) and a lot of people have collecting habits, with retro games just being a popular thing to collect. I think that's an notable distinction between the stock market and games - people don't necessarily collect games solely for their appreciation in value or quarterly dividends.

Agreed. I always find it weird when people talk about video games as investments. Can you make money on them? Sure, but unless you are spending 10s of thousands on games, the money should be a drop in the bucket compared to other investments you have. But then again, I see posts where people are selling games to make rent, repair their car, etc. so I have no idea if most gamers/collectors even have savings accounts or investments so I could be totally off base with my thinking.

[+CyranoJ]

Agreed. I always find it weird when people talk about video games as investments. Can you make money on them? Sure, but unless you are spending 10s of thousands on games, the money should be a drop in the bucket compared to other investments you have. But then again, I see posts where people are selling games to make rent, repair their car, etc. so I have no idea if most gamers/collectors even have savings accounts or investments so I could be totally off base with my thinking.

 

If you are buying games to later sell for food, instead of just buying food for your family then you are doing it wrong.

[sh3-rg]

Sell the games and make sure there's always enough Jack Daniels and Sprite around.

 

Priorities.

[Hyper_Eye]

I never bought a single Jaguar item because I thought it would be more valuable down the road. Well... except maybe Blackout. A lot of my Jag stuff was purchased brand new from bargain bins. I was digging through piles of the stuff. Since then I have bought Jaguar items for only one reason: I wanted them. The value is not enough to make me want to let it go. Well... except maybe Blackout.

 

On the topic of the "retro game bubble". I think the bubble is real. I do think prices will eventually come down for most retro swag. I believe the Jaguar is immune though. I've been buying this stuff for the life of the Jag. I never sold my collection. Jaguar prices have consistently gone up. If the prices go down dramatically it will be the first time I've seen it happen post-death. I am not rooting against it. It makes no difference to me what the prices are. I would love to get a couple more pro controllers and see Battlesphere drop to a price I can justify.

[danny_galaga]

I am a big believer in the retrogaming bubble and think that we're at the high point now.

 

I bought a cart off a guy who had a retro games shop once and he gave me an interesting insight. He used to be big on stamp collecting. At some stage there was a huge crash in that market and suddenly stamps weren't worth much. In fact, being an enterprising guy, he started buying up Australian stamp collections, cents on the dollar and then sold them to corner stores etc at half face value since they could still be used as actual postage stamps!

 

Like you I suspect it might collapse. For most of us that doesn't matter so much if you are buying them to use. I also suspect there will be a big correction in collectible car prices. When you see family sedans going for six figures you know it's gonna end in tears for the last person in that massive game of 'pass the parcel'

[Pete5125]

If you have 2 kids under 2 and you know thar their is maybe 2ore years til you come home and find th destroyed but could get a couple thousand since you have the Jag jagcd, rca cables,pro controller, another 2 jags as spares, and every retail release except atari karts.

 

Would you sell figuring you are tempting fate that the kids won't get into collection. They are in a downstairs room but I am not home to guard.

[sirlynxalot]

^You could either pack the stuff up for a few years in a closet, or generally instill some mild discipline in your kids Growing up I could have totally trashed my dad's large record collection and fragile audiophile record player, but somehow I grew up with the sense that he would get angry if I did this and this stuff should be hands off from child me.

[NeoGeoNinja]

 

I bought a cart off a guy who had a retro games shop once and he gave me an interesting insight. He used to be big on stamp collecting. At some stage there was a huge crash in that market and suddenly stamps weren't worth much. In fact, being an enterprising guy, he started buying up Australian stamp collections, cents on the dollar and then sold them to corner stores etc at half face value since they could still be used as actual postage stamps!

 

Like you I suspect it might collapse. For most of us that doesn't matter so much if you are buying them to use. I also suspect there will be a big correction in collectible car prices. When you see family sedans going for six figures you know it's gonna end in tears for the last person in that massive game of 'pass the parcel'

 

I just don't see it with games. The medium is too deep and varied vs comics, cards, stamps.

 

Games, I feel, are almost their own thing really. Different hardware required to enjoy gaming catalogues accurately... physical gaming slowly being phased out, year by year... Modern gaming pushing many older gamers and those with a sense of imagination, simple gameplay and less inclined towards movies and reality, back towards retro games.

 

Granted, indie devs and so on are constantly trying to strive for retro classic goodness by forcing 2D visuals and pixels down our throats, but the games still feel and play too 'modern' It's hard to pin point but... it's true.

 

There's currently a lot of appeal at looking back at older, forgotten or misunderstood platforms, as well as uprooting the unknown from well-established platforms and taking delight in acquiring and experiencing it first hand.

 

Like many here, having been buying and playing games continuously for the best part of 3x decades, I'm not seeing a shift in the current increasing pattern we have been observing over the last 10 years. It's even worse now, as obscure platforms (3DO, NGPC, Jaguar, etc) are also getting whisked up in the madness, not to mention some of the originally more financially viable retro platforms to collect for (DC, MD, Saturn).

 

As a NeoGeo collector, I have never seen prices decrease either. They just go up and up and up. It's usually a simple case of, if you can 'afford' to buy it now for 'x' crazy price, do it, as it will be 2x this 'crazy price' in 1 years time! I know,, I've been seeing a lot of, now, unattainable titles...

[+madman]

As a NeoGeo collector, I have never seen prices decrease either. They just go up and up and up. It's usually a simple case of, if you can 'afford' to buy it now for 'x' crazy price, do it, as it will be 2x this 'crazy price' in 1 years time! I know,, I've been seeing a lot of, now, unattainable titles...

Neo AES is its own beast for sure.

 

I dumped all my MVS carts (and cab) a few years ago, been slowly rebuying them now that I have an Omega. The prices are insane. Even for first gen carts that were cheap like Mag Lord or NAM, those are now $100+ MVS carts. Super Spy goes for more than Metal Slug. Insanity. And for all the crap it takes, I've got a CDZ and it's been a great way to pick up some of the earlier games for cheap...without the storied loading times associated with fighters.

 

Getting back OT, I think there is a bubble to some degree. 16-bit and earlier games seem to have increased drastically because people who grew up with those games now have the disposable income to collect them. However in 10 years when these people have kids and other interests, I can see prices decreasing. I haven't seen quite the same thing with N64, though there are some rare/high priced games with that system. I bet in 10 years we will see N64 games soaring in value...I better get on with my collection!

[phoenixdownita]

I get my fix with "back-ups" and flash carts ... when it is possible that is ... and that presently excludes AES/MVS and Jaguar (of all consoles) but for AES/MVS the 161-in-1 is a reasonable compromise.

 

I think availability of "alternative" methods of actually playing the games should leave to the real collectors to duel for the "holy grail" du jour ... for the rest of us merely players as long as it works it should not matter.

 

Price of consoles themselves would eventually take a nosedive once 100% fidelity is achieved via FPGA ... at that point I'd rather have 1 box that I could use reliably for say 20 systems rather than 20 systems spread around the house ... 100% is a high mark but given the "original libray" is limited/known cheating to achieve compat (HLE comes to mind) with the handful of SOB games is fine by me.

Edited August 26, 2015 by phoenixdownita

[Atlantis]

As a NeoGeo collector, I have never seen prices decrease either. They just go up and up and up. It's usually a simple case of, if you can 'afford' to buy it now for 'x' crazy price, do it, as it will be 2x this 'crazy price' in 1 years time! I know,, I've been seeing a lot of, now, unattainable titles...

Interesting thread. I think some systems might drop more than others in value after a "general video game bubble". Some systems might drop, but some I think might keep the value. Neo AES has such a strong fan core and more people seem to be interested so even bad games gain extreme value, games mentioned here. The core fans just wouldn't sell the games at low price, but instead keep the game. (They are the core snobs within a snob system within the generally snobbish thing that is collecting old video games.) If this is the case with Jaguar, I don't know. But I think the fan core is "big" and strong enough, with Jaguar also being a system like Neo that has not that many carts in existence.

 

A system with hundreds of games, like SNES or Genesis, where all the games were mass produced might sink in value in general with some rare games as exceptions. I think the obscure systems might sustain better in value after a general video game bubble has cracked - than those loved by a big number of collectors.

 

As with bubbles some "companies", or fractions, get hurt more than others... we'll see who goes down and who stays strong.

[Spacey Invader]

Dark thoughts that prove you should always keep whiskey around the house. Vodka and Sprite are no substitute. I have a magically refilling handle of VO that keeps me from going down this dark path of Jag sellage you describe. My collection is definitely less valuable than yours sounds, but to me, it's worth more as a collection than as whatever I could get out of it. If you did get a chunk of change for your collection, wouldn't the first thought be, "Damn, I'm rich -- time to buy some video game crap!"

 

Having my "collection" plugged into the TV as a diversion for a slow night is much more valuable than somewhat easing the burden of rent for a month or two. Jag powa > food. Get your priorities straight!

 

Anyway it's Thursday and eBay hasn't been flooded with jag goods so I'm guessing you didn't go through with it. Good man

[82-T/A]

Hahah... love these responses.

 

Yeah... it's a problem. I don't NEED to sell my Jaguar stuff to put food on the table. I don't really need to sell it at all, but at my point in my life, I tend to look at things from the perspective of what is responsible or not, and... would it be smarter for me to sell and invest more in my daughter's 529, whatever... or keep.

 

 

As for kids... my daughter definitely gets into stuff. I have a near-perfect Missile Command arcade cabinet... when she was 3, she picked at and tore the graphics off on the left side of the cabinet... hahaha.

 

I can't really get mad at her though. When I was 3, I tried moving my dad's wine collection from one side of the basement to the other, and broke like 4 bottles. I hand picked (unknowingly) the most expensive wines... several very limited production French wines from the 60s... several thousand dollars each. There was also that one time when I was 14, I took my dad's unopened bottle of Louie the 13th Cognac and shared it with my buddies. We thought it was gross since it burned our throats, so I filled up the top with flat TAB (like diet Coke) so he wouldn't notice. He found out later when he served it to his employees that he invited over one night. That was a $4,000, 100 year old bottle of Louie the 13th cognac.

 

I'll keep my Jaguar stuff...