Popeye Arcade 8-bit conversion

[Tempest]

 

Since the original 5200/A8 also did this, but with far uglier sprites (!) , I don't think we can complain. After all, these guys are modifying an existing disassembled ROM of the game, not creating it all-new. Thus there are going to be limitations to what they can accomplish in a reasonable time frame. I'm VERY VERY VERY happy with the newest punch as well as the numerous other improvements! EXCELSIOR!!

Exactly.There's only so much that can be done without reworking the game entirely.

[+darryl1970]

The NES game uses a very dynamic jump in the air and punch one frame pose, not hugely wide, but makes Popeye change shape radically - perhaps that's what to do here?

 

I imagine they did that because the arcade punch is a very wide sprite.

A leap and punch pose would perhaps be easier to create than trying to make one arm long?

 

sTeVE

The problem is that Atari sprites (called players on Atari A8) are only 8-bits wide, and there are only 4 available.

 

Popeye and Brutus are each made up of two players. Each player brings it's own color. Popeye is a flesh color and a blue color player. The A8 has a special mode, which creates a 3rd color where the two players overlap. By luck, the Blue and Peach color overlap to make white. That is how Popeye is 3 colors using two players.

 

Brutus is ALSO two players. There are "tricks" which allow the player to be used in multiple places. Olive is actually two players too, being re-used.

 

The NES is pretty much made up of blocks, and the NES has a lot more Sprite blocks to use. So, when Popeye punches, they just append an extra 8x8 Sprite for his arm.

 

 

 

In fact, I updated the NES also. It was much easier, as the sprites are higher resolution too!

 

Edited November 6, 2015 by darryl1970

[+darryl1970]

Version 9 Concept.

 

Playsoft had a great idea. When I first heard it, I wasn't too sure, because it leaves Popeye as a single color when he punches.

However, the more I look at it, the more I prefer it over the other options.

 

It eliminates the low resolution,at the sacrifice of color, but it actually has a more natural looking reach.

 

What are your thoughts for V9?

 

 

Latest expand punch V8:

 

Collision seems great, and it has that lunging-forward feel to it.

Edited November 6, 2015 by darryl1970

[+Cafeman]

Except now he's a transparent ghost! I prefer v8, the wide sprite.

[Jinroh]

Hmm...this is a tough call.

 

I like the V9 concept better, easy on the eyes and has a better visual continuity. Not to mention a more dramatic animation.

 

Wow looks great!

In fact, I updated the NES also. It was much easier, as the sprites are higher resolution too!

 

Edited November 6, 2015 by Jinroh

[Goochman]

Wow - tough call...........funny thing for me is the ghost popeye only bothers me with his pipe - my eyes dont seem to mind the other missing colors for a second but the pipe looks out of place with the change.

 

Just my $0.02

 

Having said that and knowing the limitations I feel both are excellent compromises and give the game a better 'arcade look' vs what we had before.

 

Maybe apply some magic to Dig Dug next

[tjlazer]

The problem is mixing low and hi res in an animation is very noticeable and looks terrible.

[+Cafeman]

Why does Ghost Punchy Popeye need to be white? Why not use he flesh color?

[jaybird3rd]

Why does Ghost Punchy Popeye need to be white? Why not use he flesh color?

 

But then he'd look naked, and we'd get a bunch of posts asking "are you SURE that's his arm sticking out when I push the button???".

 

But seriously ... amazing improvements to an already-decent arcade port. The "ghost Popeye" looks better to me, and the monochrome sprite don't bother me since it's only on the screen for a short time.

[bfollett]

Have you tried the flicker approach by reusing a sprite? I'm not sure how the sprites are laid out but maybe there's a player that isn't likely to be on the same scan lines as Popeye's extended arm too often and wouldn't flicker a lot.

 

Bob

Edited November 7, 2015 by bfollett

[kiwilove]

I've looked at the NES sprite sheet for Popeye (couldn't find one for the coin-op sprites) - and I can plainly see how it is a problem to try transferring it onto the Atari sprite - and I think Darryl has done an excellent job in so trying.

It is good that different versions are available - so that players can choose which of the options they prefer.

 

I can only guess that using multiplexing to produce something better? Is too much work for so little improvement?

 

You're extremely fortunate to have a couple of guys going to the effort of providing improvement(s) over the original release.

 

Harvey

[Grevle]

V9 Concept should work i think. But why is it possible to see trough Popeye when he is one color. That surely shouldnt happen ? or is it a priority issue ?

[Grevle]

Well ofcoarse when he is one color you migth see trough omly the pixels that makes up color 0 for drawing eyes etc, but in the image above the it seems backround is visible trough the color pixel also with doesnt seem right, the backround trough the upper parts of Popeye's head.

[+playsoft]

The white (actually light blue) is solid. What you are seeing is just the image I think. Compare Popeye's head with the top of the heart which are both over the same background colour and look similar.

[+therealbountybob]

Had a good go on 5200 port v7.Great Work guys 129,410 would have beaten 3rd screen on 4th round but stupidly fell off collecting last letter!

Looks great. Possibly with Spinach Brutus still was not hit by the arm when I punched him on 2nd screen. I need to do more punching re cans. The toot-toot between levels is a nice addition but it comes in 1 note early. Surely someone can code that round counter's 2nd digit

[+darryl1970]

Why does Ghost Punchy Popeye need to be white? Why not use he flesh color?

That would look weird and more obvious, since Popeye is mostly white. He only has a flesh face and arms, and the colors are really close.

[+darryl1970]

Have you tried the flicker approach by reusing a sprite? I'm not sure how the sprites are laid out but maybe there's a player that isn't likely to be on the same scan lines as Popeye's extended arm too often and wouldn't flicker a lot.

 

Bob

That would be cool it it would work, but it's way but I think it would be extremely complex. That would be the ultimate, if it is possible. I do not have the chops (I could create the art), and I know Playsoft has other projects.

[+darryl1970]

I've looked at the NES sprite sheet for Popeye (couldn't find one for the coin-op sprites) - and I can plainly see how it is a problem to try transferring it onto the Atari sprite - and I think Darryl has done an excellent job in so trying.

It is good that different versions are available - so that players can choose which of the options they prefer.

 

I can only guess that using multiplexing to produce something better? Is too much work for so little improvement?

 

You're extremely fortunate to have a couple of guys going to the effort of providing improvement(s) over the original release.

 

Harvey

Thanks. Much appreciation. I was really surprised when I realized how long we'd worked on this before releasing it. Time flew. I guess it's a labor of love.

[+darryl1970]

V9 Concept should work i think. But why is it possible to see trough Popeye when he is one color. That surely shouldnt happen ? or is it a priority issue ?

This is because 2 players (Atari sprites) are needed to make a multicolor sprite on Atari 8-bits, and there are only 4 truly available in this format.

Blue and flesh overlap to make white.

In this version, we are using the two players side-by-side to give the feel of a "reach", much like the arcade and NES versions.

 

If you look at the ColecoVision version, Popeye is ALL white, ALL THE TIME.

I am still toying with a couple ideas, but I think this (the punch is only a split second) is the best "feel" of the arcade.

[+Philsan]

 

I am still toying with a couple ideas, but I think this (the punch is only a split second) is the best "feel" of the arcade.

Have you considered my idea?

"Would it be possible to expand only one of the two Popeye sprites, like Bruce Lee when it kicks?"

[kiwilove]

If anyone thinks it should look even better - show how it should be done.

But within the Atari Player hardware limitations. Use a Player Editor or anything that will show it as it is using the Atari 800 hardware. The NES Popeye sprite sheet provides a good reference that is helpful,

 

Harvey

[+playsoft]

Philsan, on 07 Nov 2015 - 9:13 PM, said:

Have you considered my idea?

"Would it be possible to expand only one of the two Popeye sprites, like Bruce Lee when it kicks?"

 

That is how it is already done. If you look closely you can see that the blue player remains single width and the pink player goes double width.

 

It works better for Bruce, but it's a simpler design and does not use the or colour. If you made Popeye a 2 colour sprite then Bluto would have to be too - and you can't just go 2 colour for the punch, since Bluto would change too.

[+playsoft]

therealbountybob, on 07 Nov 2015 - 1:14 PM, said:

Had a good go on 5200 port v7.Great Work guys 129,410 would have beaten 3rd screen on 4th round but stupidly fell off collecting last letter!

Looks great. Possibly with Spinach Brutus still was not hit by the arm when I punched him on 2nd screen. I need to do more punching re cans. The toot-toot between levels is a nice addition but it comes in 1 note early. Surely someone can code that round counter's 2nd digit

Popeye5200v7.jpg

 

The last note is missing from the level completion music on the A8 original - for every level - when you run in PAL. There is a PAL entry on atarimania but the image is identical to the NTSC one.

[FifthPlayer]

I finally burned this to an AtariMax cart and tried out the double-width punch on real hardware.

 

When my attention was drawn away from Popeye, as when punching Bluto, the double-width punch looked OK. But if I was looking directly at Popeye, the transition to double-width and back was a little distracting.

 

It's a tough call, but I suspect I'd like the monochome, high-res punch sprite a little better than multicolor/double-width. But both are better than single width.

[+darryl1970]

Have you considered my idea?

"Would it be possible to expand only one of the two Popeye sprites, like Bruce Lee when it kicks?"

 

 

I finally burned this to an AtariMax cart and tried out the double-width punch on real hardware.

 

When my attention was drawn away from Popeye, as when punching Bluto, the double-width punch looked OK. But if I was looking directly at Popeye, the transition to double-width and back was a little distracting.

 

It's a tough call, but I suspect I'd like the monochome, high-res punch sprite a little better than multicolor/double-width. But both are better than single width.

 

Sorry it took me so long to catch up Philsan. I see Playsoft already clarified. It's a tricky setup, but we are using that concept (as did the original).

One player is dw and the other is normal. The overlap allows the third color. It's tricky.

 

I tried a few different things. I do like the monochrome higher res, but the all white and background holes can be distracting.

 

I have a new double-width. It sacrifices some detail, but it flows with the animation like the double-high res did, while retaining the multi-color.

The blue will not reach to draw a pipe nor his tattoo.

 

We'll release it as soon as a few bugs are worked out.