Retro VGS will support playing ColecoVision games from the cartridges!

[dashv]

And using the original controllers!

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=873452596057345&substory_index=0&id=783316545070951

[TPR]

Here's the non-mobile Facebook link:

 

https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/photos/a.793351770734095.1073741829.783316545070951/873452596057345/

[dashv]

Sorry bout that.

[TPR]

So I have not heard about this before, but I did just spend the last hour or so doing some reading up on several different sites including their own. Here are some conclusions I've drawn from some fairly confusing resources and I'm trying to really make some sense out of all of it....

 

- It's a "stand-alone" system, not an "emulator" or a "multi-slot" all-in-one console for retro games.

- The system seems to have a moderately decent powered base so that many different types of games could be made, anything from a homebrew 2600 game to a 3D Playstation game.

- The system uses it's own unique cartridges and the base system is not compatible with anything else via cart or emulation.

- The system will have some adapters to play carts like ColecoVision, Atari, NES, etc, but they are sold as additions to the actual console.

- The system looks exactly like a Jaguar (because they bought the mold rights), but won't play Jaguar games.

 

I'm just trying to understand why....

 

- A homebrewer would develop for this system rather than already installed base of popular systems that exist.

- Someone would want to play their ColecoVision games on this through an adapter rather than just play them on a ColecoVision

(I get that the same question could be asked about the CV Expansion Module #1, but I think that's a little different as when the system came out in the 80s, it made sense, but in this case, I'm assuming most people who would be interested in playing an actual CV cart would probably already own a CV?)

- If you wanted to play multiple retro system on one console this is better than, let's say, a original XBOX with all the emulators, which seem to play almost every retro console system from the Atari 2600 to Super Nintendo just fine.

 

I think it will be very interesting to see how well the Kickstarter does but at the moment, I can't see this being something I would back. Maybe the Kickstarter page will have clearer information and will be able to sell me on the project.

[Pixelboy]

Three things come into play:

 

1) Emulation accuracy

2) HDMI support

3) The quality of the included controllers

 

As the CV Flashback demonstrated, anything less than perfect emulation accuracy will bring bad karma to the system. But couple HDMI output with an effort to get the hardware emulation just right and you have something interesting. I don't mind the cart slot adaptors, especially if it allows me to play both ColecoVision games and NES games on a single system.

 

Cheap, clunky controllers will also ruin the system. They have to get that just right as well, or again, bad karma.

 

It will be extremely difficult for these guys (whoever they are) to get the emulation just right in their FPGAs from day one. For that reason, if the system does not offer a way to upgrade the FPGA's programming to improve the hardware emulation, that will be quite disappointing.

 

All this to say that I think their multi-console idea is a good one, especially with a built-in cartridge slot to play legacy cartridges, but the hardware's design must meet several conditions (HDMI, good emulation, good controllers, and probably other minor things I'm not thinking of right now) for me to really take notice of this console.

[mckafka99]

Although I own a number of older systems (O2/AstroCade/Channel F, etc) the reality is that these systems probably wont last forever. Having modern hardware that is capable of accepting the original cartridges via a system specific cartridge adapter does have an appeal to me (in addition to the other capabilities of the system). If it will allow use of the original controllers, that will be even better. If this all comes to pass, I can see myself having one of these to keep in the living room next to me on the sofa hooked up to my separate 'gaming tv' instead of the incredible clutter brought by having all of the individual retro consoles set up which I have currently (a spot that my wife, thankfully ignores/overlooks). The 'real things' could then be sent to a different room to be appropriately displayed/setup. Depending on the adapters available at launch, I may very well make this my first kickstarter backing.

[+Tarzilla]

Three things come into play:

 

1) Emulation accuracy

2) HDMI support

3) The quality of the included controllers

 

As the CV Flashback demonstrated, anything less than perfect emulation accuracy will bring bad karma to the system. But couple HDMI output with an effort to get the hardware emulation just right and you have something interesting. I don't mind the cart slot adaptors, especially if it allows me to play both ColecoVision games and NES games on a single system.

 

Cheap, clunky controllers will also ruin the system. They have to get that just right as well, or again, bad karma.

 

It will be extremely difficult for these guys (whoever they are) to get the emulation just right in their FPGAs from day one. For that reason, if the system does not offer a way to upgrade the FPGA's programming to improve the hardware emulation, that will be quite disappointing.

 

All this to say that I think their multi-console idea is a good one, especially with a built-in cartridge slot to play legacy cartridges, but the hardware's design must meet several conditions (HDMI, good emulation, good controllers, and probably other minor things I'm not thinking of right now) for me to really take notice of this console.

The original plan was for the HDL to be part of the cart, so the programmer would be able to program around the inaccuracies, but still program the same way they would for the real system. Now it sounds like these adapters will be like mini versions of the Flashback, but will play the cart loaded thru it opening themselves up to the same complaints about game X from 83 has glitches like we have with the flashbacks

[mckafka99]

Perhaps the adapters will be flashable/updateable to account for core inaccuracies as they arise?

[Pixelboy]

Perhaps the adapters will be flashable/updateable to account for core inaccuracies as they arise?

The adapters will probably just be pass-through devices to map a cart's pins to the appropriate pins on the Retro VGS's cartridge port. The "flashable/updatable" part should logically be the FPGA core inside the console. As I said, if they devised a way to update the FPGA with updates in an easy and straightforward way (via a USB port or whatever) then the system will be able to evolve with incremental improvements. Users will then simply need to keep up with the latest updates posted on the official web site.

[TPR]

Reading some of the comments above, this quote from their FAQ doesn't look to promising? Or am I reading too much into it?

 

 

 

Is the RETRO VGS updatable? Will there be patches?
We wanted to avoid any architecture that would need internet connection for updates. We want the whole system to be update free and not dependent on a server being around 30 years from now.
There is no firmware to upgrade. We're making this system in such a way that in 30 years from now when you plug in a game, the system won't have to rely on a bunch of garbage updates from servers that won't even be there! Most next gen games have a lifespan of 6 to 10 years because they need to ping a server for some kind of crap reason. This will be totally self contained and not have to rely on updates.

[Pixelboy]

Reading some of the comments above, this quote from their FAQ doesn't look to promising? Or am I reading too much into it?

Look at it this way: The people who created the Ouya made some mistakes that came back and bit them in the @$$. The guys behind the Retro VGS are also going to make mistakes, it seems. Having no way to update the FPGA core means owners of the console will be stuck with whatever problems arise with the hardware emulation and certain games not working properly.

 

Downplaying the value of updates to the FPGA core will probably be one of their biggest mistakes, given that they're advertizing their FPGA solution as the best thing since sliced bread. Also, we all know the internet is never going to disappear, so the notion that the system shouldn't be upgradable because the "official" server could one day disappear is not a valid argument. Even if the company behind the Retro VGS goes under, the last firmware upgrade(s) could still be downloadable from other places, elsewhere on the net. Some tech-savvy homebrewers could even come up with their own firmware upgrades to improve the FPGA core even more than was ever imagined by the console's creators. Just look at how Opcode's MegaCart and SGM helped the ColecoVision homebrew community grow these past few years!

[TPR]

Although I own a number of older systems (O2/AstroCade/Channel F, etc) the reality is that these systems probably wont last forever. Having modern hardware that is capable of accepting the original cartridges via a system specific cartridge adapter does have an appeal to me

 

That's actually a very good point. It's funny, the ColecoVision that I use is in such good shape and even though I'm just using a standard A/V mod, it still looks fantastic on my HD screen. I don't think think about it being 30 years old!

[Murph74]

It looks like a simple, functional solution to me-- I'm guessing for the classic console cartridge adapters, the FPGA HDL will be in the adapter. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Flash cart developed for this to update HDL's and load roms without the need for an OEM Cartridge or adapter. I'm interested and intrigued, but the price point is going to be the kicker. For me, the 'new' retro style games aren't really a selling point-- playing the original games in a modern way (IE HDMI, reliable hardware etc) is significantly more appealing. Not sure I'm in the minority or not here considering who their target demo is.

 

From the FAQ: and at this current time, it’s an FPGA and ARM system. If a developer wants to make a Neo Geo game, they would include an HDL (Hardware Description Language) file that configures the FPGA to operate like a Neo Geo. The developer would code their game to run against the Neo Geo platform. This HDL code along with the actual Neo Geo game will be on the cartridge. Once that cartridge is placed in the RETRO VGS, it will become a Neo Geo and play that game. So in this case, the language is: 68000 and Z80 code. If you wanted to do a new Atari 2600 styled game, you'd include a 2600 HDL file that configures the FPGA to replicate the logic of the original 2600 hardware and then you'd include your new 2600 game on that cartridge too

[108 Stars]

There has been a LOT of discussion on the Retro VGS in this thread already: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/page-34

 

I suggest you look/discuss there, will be easier to follow if both the discussion is in one thread.

[cimerians]

I will keep my original Colecovison hooked up (with the SGM) as a simple F$#@ you to it.....and send them a picture of it.

 

I have little interest in the Retro VGS but I'll keep tabs on it. If ever get one it will be begrudgingly.

 

Didn't have a good experience with these people with their Kickstarter Retro magazine.

[TPR]

There has been a LOT of discussion on the Retro VGS in this thread already: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/page-34

 

I suggest you look/discuss there, will be easier to follow if both the discussion is in one thread.

 

I actually read that thread and found the information very confusing and conflicting with no real straight answers to many of the questions people were asking.

[Rhomaios]

I still just wish it didn't look like a Jaguar. /me ducks

[TPR]

I still just wish it didn't look like a Jaguar. /me ducks

 

I still can't get over the fact that it looks just like a Jaguar, but doesn't play Jaguar games. You would think that someone making a retro console to sell to retro gaming geeks, that would have been the FIRST system you make sure it emulates! lol

[108 Stars]

 

I actually read that thread and found the information very confusing and conflicting with no real straight answers to many of the questions people were asking.

True that it may be confusing, but I doubt adding more threads asking the same questions will help.^^

After all, even one of the guys behind Retro VGS posted there.

 

The no straight answers part comes mainly from the information about the system still being a bit vague. Vague as the prices somewhere between 150 and 400 Dollars.

 

 

I still can't get over the fact that it looks just like a Jaguar, but doesn't play Jaguar games. You would think that someone making a retro console to sell to retro gaming geeks, that would have been the FIRST system you make sure it emulates! lol

lol, sure, I can see the masses drooling at the thought of getting a Jaguar compatible system. I bet plenty of people who would be interested in the Retro VGS wouldn't even recognize it being a remodeled Jaguar case unless they are told.^^ I still find that choice of a case curious... if anything, the Jaguar shell is associated with negative feelings by most retro gamers. I think they would have been better off with some new design.

Edited September 6, 2015 by 108 Stars

[TPR]

True that it may be confusing, but I doubt adding more threads asking the same questions will help.

 

Well, this thread was started mainly due to the ColecoVision adapters being confirmed, so it makes sense. And it sounds like some of us had never even heard of this system before, so this thread has helped create awareness for the system, so I don't see how that's really a bad thing.

 

 

 

The no straight answers part comes mainly from the information about the system still being a bit vague.

 

I could understand vague information early on in the project, but they are saying their Kickstarter campaign will begin in 9 days. I'm not feeling too confident about a system who's crowd funding launch is right around the corner and they still can't answer some really basic questions.

[MrMaddog]

This is the only working link I can find... http://www.hardcoregamer.com/2015/09/02/retro-vgs-console-adds-classic-cartridge-adapters/165526/

 

It would be real cool if we can use real carts or even Roms on SD cards to play existing classic games on the RetroVGS, TBH I'm not interested in just playing indy titles as I have enough of them on Steam already.

 

Of course it's not set in stone as they removed the FB links in case they change their mind.

[Tron Unit]

This pretty much seals the deal for me. The ability to play game carts is the biggest plus and what was sorely lacking with the Flashback systems. Instant purchase from me.

[Kamshaft]

I'm still on the fence about the whole thing. Why?

 

1. The available information out there is not very clear. For example the cart adapters news is not confirmed anywhere in their site. So, it's a rumor for me at this stage.

2. Marketing. It's mostly done via facebook, and other social media outlets.

3. Is there a community rep here on Atari Age?

 

Don't get me wrong here, I'm very excited for this console/project. Great idea! But, being very excited and forking out $299 at this stage is a gamble for me personally.

 

I'm might just be a late adopter.

 

Lastly, there should be a forum here just for that machine. Would help to put it all in one place.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Kamshaft

[Pixelboy]

I'm still on the fence about the whole thing. Why?

 

1. The available information out there is not very clear. For example the cart adapters news is not readily mentioned anywhere.

2. Marketing. It's mostly done via facebook, and other social media outlets.

3. Is there a community rep here on Atari Age?

 

Don't get me wrong here, I'm very excited for this console/project. Great idea! But, being very excited and forking out $299 at this stage is a gamble for me personally.

 

I'm might just be a late adopter.

I would suggest that you read the last 20 pages of this thread:

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/page-45

 

As you will see, at this point in time the Retro VGS is seen as mostly empty promises, smoke and mirrors.

 

But the really cool thing that came out of this debacle is that we got a peek at Kevin Horton's prototypes. See post #1496 in the thread linked above.

[Kamshaft]

The reality is that Retro VGS info (if it's real) should be everywhere, and not buried an AtariAge forum. LOL