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Atari 800 256Kb upgrade


ebiguy

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Again, my 62K upgrade should be compatible with the "64K base XL" mode. It even uses PortB (you have to run a wire to the joystick port). That said, I never built and tested it but I'm willing to help you test and debug it, as I did for ebiguy.

Yes, for now, this is what I am going with too, whether I have to find a 48K board or if I can use more than 1 16K board to get there.

 

EDIT: I quoted the wrong post, I meant to quote Magic Knight's post #51. Though the two sort of fit together anyway, so I guess let's say it's a reply to both posts.

Edited by Gunstar
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  • 1 month later...

So, I've decided to first upgrade a 16K board to 48K before doing the 62K ClausB upgrade and while reading the mod, Claus talks about how the 64K chips are pin compatible with the 16K chips and it reminded me of the ClausB/Rambo 256K upgrades I've done to XL's. The 256K chips are pin compatible with the 64K chips...so now I'm thinking, instead of installing 64K chips in the 800 16K board, why not 256K chips? With Claus' 62K port B compatible upgrade, why not go ahead and put enough memory in for a 256K (254K?) upgrade?

 

What do you think ClausB? I know It will take a bit more work connecting up the other 16K banks to port B, but it should be able to work just like the 62K upgrade, right?

Edited by Gunstar
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Folks sorry for hijacking this thread, I only have simple question. Which program can be used (.ATR,.XEX,.BAS) to reliably detect and check all RAM on 256kB 800XL upgraded by Claus Bucholz XE compatible mod for C021697 (or C021698). I have just finished it, and I am not sure if it works correctly. Best for DOS2.5 ..if it is possible.

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So, I've decided to first upgrade a 16K board to 48K before doing the 62K ClausB upgrade and while reading the mod, Claus talks about how the 64K chips are pin compatible with the 16K chips and it reminded me of the ClausB/Rambo 256K upgrades I've done to XL's. The 256K chips are pin compatible with the 64K chips...so now I'm thinking, instead of installing 64K chips in the 800 16K board, why not 256K chips? With Claus' 62K port B compatible upgrade, why not go ahead and put enough memory in for a 256K (254K?) upgrade?

 

What do you think ClausB? I know It will take a bit more work connecting up the other 16K banks to port B, but it should be able to work just like the 62K upgrade, right?

4164/4 1256 RAM chips are NOT pin compatible with 4116 chips, The 4116 use 3 different voltage supplies(+5V/+12V/-5V) while 4164/41256 chips are single voltage supply(+5V). You will fry a 4164/41256 chip if you try to use it in place of a 4116 without rerouting the power supply traces.

 

There are 16K to 256K PCB upgrades(Peterson/Windhover?) but they don't give XL compatibility, they use the older AXLON banking method.

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4164/4 1256 RAM chips are NOT pin compatible with 4116 chips, The 4116 use 3 different voltage supplies(+5V/+12V/-5V) while 4164/41256 chips are single voltage supply(+5V). You will fry a 4164/41256 chip if you try to use it in place of a 4116 without rerouting the power supply traces.

 

There are 16K to 256K PCB upgrades(Peterson/Windhover?) but they don't give XL compatibility, they use the older AXLON banking method.

The ClauseB 62K upgrade modifies the boards for +5V only. Have you even looked at what I am talking about? The link is in post 55 above. The upgrade I intend to do is actually several upgrades talked about across several threads. By the time I am ready to install 41256 chips the board will NOT burn them out because power traces WILL have been re-routed. The question was directed to Claus, who knows what I am talking about. I posted in this thread because more has been talked about here than just Axlon upgrades, and it goes along with the posts above regarding 16-48K upgrade to a 16K board, which is also what I am starting with. It will NOT be the same board when I am through. It's just easier to start with a 16K board than making one from scratch. ;) The OS board will also be modified.

 

Edit: Actually the link in post 55 goes to another thread where there is another link to the 48K-to-62K port B compatible upgrade. How compatible with software more than 48K remains to be seen, but just because something is more than 48K does not mean it necessarily wouldn't work with OS B. I am not looking for XL compatibility, I'm looking to expand the 800's library a bit with software that is more than 48K, but will still run on OS B with the upgrade(s) I am referring too, because the upgrade I am referring too uses Port B for the extra 14K +(2K I/O)=16K mapped exactly as the XL's extra memory is mapped, under the OS. My idea, directed to Claus is to not stop at a 64K board, but go all the way to 256K using the same Port B banking.

 

But this is all still experimental, ClausB's upgrade has not been done yet, it's just on paper, my 16K board and OS personality board will be guinea pigs. it's still just theory. But ClausB has been doing Atari memory upgrades since the early 80's and I trust his practical theory. And hopefully he can help me through any issues that may pop up. :thumbsup:

 

But I thank you for your concern, and it bumps this thread up again too, which I needed anyway since ClausB has still not replied. :thumbsup:

Edited by Gunstar
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Folks sorry for hijacking this thread, I only have simple question. Which program can be used (.ATR,.XEX,.BAS) to reliably detect and check all RAM on 256kB 800XL upgraded by Claus Bucholz XE compatible mod for C021697 (or C021698). I have just finished it, and I am not sure if it works correctly. Best for DOS2.5 ..if it is possible.

 

One of the programs in the attached ZIP file should be what you're looking for.

Memory Test.zip

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Thanks fot the files. If I may further continue, my PAL 800XL shows mixed results, even some errors. Is it normal or not for XE compatible QuarterMeg 256kB upgrade? DOS2.5 RAMDISK works fine, I can switch between BASIC and DOS instantly without having data lost.

post-64822-0-83125600-1547232945_thumb.jpg

post-64822-0-01811100-1547232994_thumb.jpg

post-64822-0-39773700-1547233041_thumb.jpg

post-64822-0-96925000-1547233074_thumb.jpg

post-64822-0-17796800-1547233119_thumb.jpg

post-64822-0-59160900-1547233154_thumb.jpg

 

In last picture data at 83 and 87 look suspicious to me. According to the description from Claus Buchholz it might be really correct, he mentions 12 16kB banks selected by bits 2,3,5,6 in his text with bit 4 making bank appear at 4000H-7FFFH. It is just that those reported errors make me unsure.. thanks.

Edited by archeocomp
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The 800XL 256K RAMBO type upgrades are 'XE Compatible' because 4 of their 12 16KB bank bits are the same as the 130XE. So, DOS 2.5 for example will use 130XE 64KB ramdisk with no problem.

 

The additional 8 available banks can be addressed by compatible software.

 

A 130XE upgraded to 320KB replaces the 2nd 64KB with 256KB (64+256) A 256K XL has only 256K total (64+192)

 

The last 4 banks ($8x) available in a 320K XE are either not present in a 256K XL, or map back to the base 64K. Some programs may assume the machine is 320KB since those last 4 banks look like they have RAM when it's really just a mirror of base memory, and don't recognize that condition. In your upgrade, they are mapping back to the base memory.

 

Looks like the testers in the first 2 screenshots were the only ones to correctly identify only 192KB of extended memory!

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Thanks fot the files. If I may further continue, my PAL 800XL shows mixed results, even some errors. Is it normal or not for XE compatible QuarterMeg 256kB upgrade? DOS2.5 RAMDISK works fine, I can switch between BASIC and DOS instantly without having data lost.

attachicon.gifpic1.jpg

attachicon.gifpic2.jpg

attachicon.gifpic3.jpg

attachicon.gifpic4.jpg

attachicon.gifpic5.jpg

attachicon.gifpic6.jpg

 

In last picture data at 83 and 87 look suspicious to me. According to the description from Claus Buchholz it might be really correct, he mentions 12 16kB banks selected by bits 2,3,5,6 in his text with bit 4 making bank appear at 4000H-7FFFH. It is just that those reported errors make me unsure.. thanks.

The memory tester in picture 2 is the most accurate I have found across the board because it detects main and OS memory separately from extended memory. It accurately detected internal Rambo 256K (64+192K), external Syscheck 576K (64+512K), internal Rambo 512K (64K+448K) on my 1200XL's. No other memory tester program above or any other I have found does it accurately with mirrored ram/OS ram and main memory. It is the only one I use anymore for any memory upgrades.Though the memory tester in the 3rd picture I have never seen or tried before, and from the screen shot it "looks" like it would be good too. All the others don't work right for my memory upgrades.

Edited by Gunstar
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Yes, Nezgar, I see now that the 3rd pictured one is counting an extra 64K. The problem with it and all the others, except apparently the testers in pics 1 & 2, is they are lazy testers that just assume the first 64K, and then count it again as extended memory, or just not recognize the condition for some reason, as you said. With Rambo compatible upgrades, which all three of mine are, all the others I've tried do this too, My favorite, in picture 2, and picture 1 seem to actually look for it and test Main and OS memory and differentiate is from expanded memory properly. I'd still use the one in picture 3 though, to detect other things, once I used picture 2 tester for memory.

Edited by Gunstar
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The Atari 48K board has enough logic for 62K - it just needs quite a bit of rewiring. If you start from a 16K board you will have to reroute the power traces and add a few chips. And going to 256K needs some more chips, but I'll look into it if you want to go that route.

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  • 3 months later...

The memory tester in picture 2 is the most accurate I have found across the board because it detects main and OS memory separately from extended memory. It accurately detected internal Rambo 256K (64+192K), external Syscheck 576K (64+512K), internal Rambo 512K (64K+448K) on my 1200XL's. No other memory tester program above or any other I have found does it accurately with mirrored ram/OS ram and main memory. It is the only one I use anymore for any memory upgrades.Though the memory tester in the 3rd picture I have never seen or tried before, and from the screen shot it "looks" like it would be good too. All the others don't work right for my memory upgrades.

Gunstar you might be interested in a new version of http://atari.sk/extended-ram-test-0-22-0-xram0220-xex/

 

I have contacted the author of program. He could still locate source code from year 2003 (originally on audio cassette) and adapted changes needed for Rambo extension(s). It now works correctly on my Rambo 256kB XLE 800XL machine.

Edited by archeocomp
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Gunstar you might be interested in a new version of http://atari.sk/extended-ram-test-0-22-0-xram0220-xex/

 

I have contacted the author of program. He could still locate source code from year 2003 (originally on audio cassette) and adapted changes needed for Rambo extension(s). It now works correctly on my Rambo 256kB XLE 800XL machine.

Thank you. I have download the .xex and .txt files and will try it tonight.

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Gunstar you might be interested in a new version of http://atari.sk/extended-ram-test-0-22-0-xram0220-xex/

 

I have contacted the author of program. He could still locate source code from year 2003 (originally on audio cassette) and adapted changes needed for Rambo extension(s). It now works correctly on my Rambo 256kB XLE 800XL machine.

yep. works. Thanks!

 

[EDIT]

I mean on my Rambo XL equipped 800XL as well.

Edited by a8isa1
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