Magic Knight Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 I wouldn't hesitate to mod one to 62k using the link wires required. Now where can i find one of those 48k boards..mmmm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClausB Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 You could start with a 16K board if you don't mind the extra work. See the other thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 (edited) Again, my 62K upgrade should be compatible with the "64K base XL" mode. It even uses PortB (you have to run a wire to the joystick port). That said, I never built and tested it but I'm willing to help you test and debug it, as I did for ebiguy. Yes, for now, this is what I am going with too, whether I have to find a 48K board or if I can use more than 1 16K board to get there. EDIT: I quoted the wrong post, I meant to quote Magic Knight's post #51. Though the two sort of fit together anyway, so I guess let's say it's a reply to both posts. Edited November 15, 2018 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Knight Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 You could start with a 16K board if you don't mind the extra work. See the other thread. Could you kindly link for me please :0) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClausB Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 http://atariage.com/forums/topic/285023-atari-800-memory-upgrade-question/?do=findComment&comment=4157802 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Knight Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 http://atariage.com/forums/topic/285023-atari-800-memory-upgrade-question/?do=findComment&comment=4157802 Thanks - there's been quite a few topics started on this type of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) So, I've decided to first upgrade a 16K board to 48K before doing the 62K ClausB upgrade and while reading the mod, Claus talks about how the 64K chips are pin compatible with the 16K chips and it reminded me of the ClausB/Rambo 256K upgrades I've done to XL's. The 256K chips are pin compatible with the 64K chips...so now I'm thinking, instead of installing 64K chips in the 800 16K board, why not 256K chips? With Claus' 62K port B compatible upgrade, why not go ahead and put enough memory in for a 256K (254K?) upgrade? What do you think ClausB? I know It will take a bit more work connecting up the other 16K banks to port B, but it should be able to work just like the 62K upgrade, right? Edited January 7, 2019 by Gunstar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 bump. Still looking for a response from Claus... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archeocomp Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Folks sorry for hijacking this thread, I only have simple question. Which program can be used (.ATR,.XEX,.BAS) to reliably detect and check all RAM on 256kB 800XL upgraded by Claus Bucholz XE compatible mod for C021697 (or C021698). I have just finished it, and I am not sure if it works correctly. Best for DOS2.5 ..if it is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 So, I've decided to first upgrade a 16K board to 48K before doing the 62K ClausB upgrade and while reading the mod, Claus talks about how the 64K chips are pin compatible with the 16K chips and it reminded me of the ClausB/Rambo 256K upgrades I've done to XL's. The 256K chips are pin compatible with the 64K chips...so now I'm thinking, instead of installing 64K chips in the 800 16K board, why not 256K chips? With Claus' 62K port B compatible upgrade, why not go ahead and put enough memory in for a 256K (254K?) upgrade? What do you think ClausB? I know It will take a bit more work connecting up the other 16K banks to port B, but it should be able to work just like the 62K upgrade, right? 4164/4 1256 RAM chips are NOT pin compatible with 4116 chips, The 4116 use 3 different voltage supplies(+5V/+12V/-5V) while 4164/41256 chips are single voltage supply(+5V). You will fry a 4164/41256 chip if you try to use it in place of a 4116 without rerouting the power supply traces. There are 16K to 256K PCB upgrades(Peterson/Windhover?) but they don't give XL compatibility, they use the older AXLON banking method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) 4164/4 1256 RAM chips are NOT pin compatible with 4116 chips, The 4116 use 3 different voltage supplies(+5V/+12V/-5V) while 4164/41256 chips are single voltage supply(+5V). You will fry a 4164/41256 chip if you try to use it in place of a 4116 without rerouting the power supply traces. There are 16K to 256K PCB upgrades(Peterson/Windhover?) but they don't give XL compatibility, they use the older AXLON banking method. The ClauseB 62K upgrade modifies the boards for +5V only. Have you even looked at what I am talking about? The link is in post 55 above. The upgrade I intend to do is actually several upgrades talked about across several threads. By the time I am ready to install 41256 chips the board will NOT burn them out because power traces WILL have been re-routed. The question was directed to Claus, who knows what I am talking about. I posted in this thread because more has been talked about here than just Axlon upgrades, and it goes along with the posts above regarding 16-48K upgrade to a 16K board, which is also what I am starting with. It will NOT be the same board when I am through. It's just easier to start with a 16K board than making one from scratch. The OS board will also be modified. Edit: Actually the link in post 55 goes to another thread where there is another link to the 48K-to-62K port B compatible upgrade. How compatible with software more than 48K remains to be seen, but just because something is more than 48K does not mean it necessarily wouldn't work with OS B. I am not looking for XL compatibility, I'm looking to expand the 800's library a bit with software that is more than 48K, but will still run on OS B with the upgrade(s) I am referring too, because the upgrade I am referring too uses Port B for the extra 14K +(2K I/O)=16K mapped exactly as the XL's extra memory is mapped, under the OS. My idea, directed to Claus is to not stop at a 64K board, but go all the way to 256K using the same Port B banking. But this is all still experimental, ClausB's upgrade has not been done yet, it's just on paper, my 16K board and OS personality board will be guinea pigs. it's still just theory. But ClausB has been doing Atari memory upgrades since the early 80's and I trust his practical theory. And hopefully he can help me through any issues that may pop up. But I thank you for your concern, and it bumps this thread up again too, which I needed anyway since ClausB has still not replied. Edited January 9, 2019 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Folks sorry for hijacking this thread, I only have simple question. Which program can be used (.ATR,.XEX,.BAS) to reliably detect and check all RAM on 256kB 800XL upgraded by Claus Bucholz XE compatible mod for C021697 (or C021698). I have just finished it, and I am not sure if it works correctly. Best for DOS2.5 ..if it is possible. One of the programs in the attached ZIP file should be what you're looking for. Memory Test.zip 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archeocomp Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) Thanks fot the files. If I may further continue, my PAL 800XL shows mixed results, even some errors. Is it normal or not for XE compatible QuarterMeg 256kB upgrade? DOS2.5 RAMDISK works fine, I can switch between BASIC and DOS instantly without having data lost. In last picture data at 83 and 87 look suspicious to me. According to the description from Claus Buchholz it might be really correct, he mentions 12 16kB banks selected by bits 2,3,5,6 in his text with bit 4 making bank appear at 4000H-7FFFH. It is just that those reported errors make me unsure.. thanks. Edited January 11, 2019 by archeocomp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 The 800XL 256K RAMBO type upgrades are 'XE Compatible' because 4 of their 12 16KB bank bits are the same as the 130XE. So, DOS 2.5 for example will use 130XE 64KB ramdisk with no problem. The additional 8 available banks can be addressed by compatible software. A 130XE upgraded to 320KB replaces the 2nd 64KB with 256KB (64+256) A 256K XL has only 256K total (64+192) The last 4 banks ($8x) available in a 320K XE are either not present in a 256K XL, or map back to the base 64K. Some programs may assume the machine is 320KB since those last 4 banks look like they have RAM when it's really just a mirror of base memory, and don't recognize that condition. In your upgrade, they are mapping back to the base memory. Looks like the testers in the first 2 screenshots were the only ones to correctly identify only 192KB of extended memory! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archeocomp Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) Thank you. As it is verified now, I would like to share PCB with community. They (3 pieces including shipping worldwide for USD7.70) can be ordered or downloaded at https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/Fr8n4LQ7 Edited January 11, 2019 by archeocomp 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) Thanks fot the files. If I may further continue, my PAL 800XL shows mixed results, even some errors. Is it normal or not for XE compatible QuarterMeg 256kB upgrade? DOS2.5 RAMDISK works fine, I can switch between BASIC and DOS instantly without having data lost. pic1.jpg pic2.jpg pic3.jpg pic4.jpg pic5.jpg pic6.jpg In last picture data at 83 and 87 look suspicious to me. According to the description from Claus Buchholz it might be really correct, he mentions 12 16kB banks selected by bits 2,3,5,6 in his text with bit 4 making bank appear at 4000H-7FFFH. It is just that those reported errors make me unsure.. thanks. The memory tester in picture 2 is the most accurate I have found across the board because it detects main and OS memory separately from extended memory. It accurately detected internal Rambo 256K (64+192K), external Syscheck 576K (64+512K), internal Rambo 512K (64K+448K) on my 1200XL's. No other memory tester program above or any other I have found does it accurately with mirrored ram/OS ram and main memory. It is the only one I use anymore for any memory upgrades.Though the memory tester in the 3rd picture I have never seen or tried before, and from the screen shot it "looks" like it would be good too. All the others don't work right for my memory upgrades. Edited January 11, 2019 by Gunstar 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) Yes, Nezgar, I see now that the 3rd pictured one is counting an extra 64K. The problem with it and all the others, except apparently the testers in pics 1 & 2, is they are lazy testers that just assume the first 64K, and then count it again as extended memory, or just not recognize the condition for some reason, as you said. With Rambo compatible upgrades, which all three of mine are, all the others I've tried do this too, My favorite, in picture 2, and picture 1 seem to actually look for it and test Main and OS memory and differentiate is from expanded memory properly. I'd still use the one in picture 3 though, to detect other things, once I used picture 2 tester for memory. Edited January 11, 2019 by Gunstar 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR> Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 If you want to do true deep testing and extended burn in testing of your mod try PAGEFIND.BAS as described by Hias here. It really is the best tester IMO. It's in German, but it's not too hard to figure out. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/221107-looking-for-an-extended-memory-test-program/?hl=%2Bpagefind.bas&do=findComment&comment=2912802 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archeocomp Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Thanks for the hint. I subjected the mod to deep test. Everything is OK. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClausB Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Sorry, been busy preparing to host a robotics tournament. Done now but having a bourbon. Will study this long thread tomorrow. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClausB Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 The Atari 48K board has enough logic for 62K - it just needs quite a bit of rewiring. If you start from a 16K board you will have to reroute the power traces and add a few chips. And going to 256K needs some more chips, but I'll look into it if you want to go that route. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archeocomp Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 (edited) The memory tester in picture 2 is the most accurate I have found across the board because it detects main and OS memory separately from extended memory. It accurately detected internal Rambo 256K (64+192K), external Syscheck 576K (64+512K), internal Rambo 512K (64K+448K) on my 1200XL's. No other memory tester program above or any other I have found does it accurately with mirrored ram/OS ram and main memory. It is the only one I use anymore for any memory upgrades.Though the memory tester in the 3rd picture I have never seen or tried before, and from the screen shot it "looks" like it would be good too. All the others don't work right for my memory upgrades. Gunstar you might be interested in a new version of http://atari.sk/extended-ram-test-0-22-0-xram0220-xex/ I have contacted the author of program. He could still locate source code from year 2003 (originally on audio cassette) and adapted changes needed for Rambo extension(s). It now works correctly on my Rambo 256kB XLE 800XL machine. Edited April 26, 2019 by archeocomp 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Gunstar you might be interested in a new version of http://atari.sk/extended-ram-test-0-22-0-xram0220-xex/ I have contacted the author of program. He could still locate source code from year 2003 (originally on audio cassette) and adapted changes needed for Rambo extension(s). It now works correctly on my Rambo 256kB XLE 800XL machine. Thank you. I have download the .xex and .txt files and will try it tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a8isa1 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) Gunstar you might be interested in a new version of http://atari.sk/extended-ram-test-0-22-0-xram0220-xex/ I have contacted the author of program. He could still locate source code from year 2003 (originally on audio cassette) and adapted changes needed for Rambo extension(s). It now works correctly on my Rambo 256kB XLE 800XL machine. yep. works. Thanks! [EDIT] I mean on my Rambo XL equipped 800XL as well. Edited May 2, 2019 by a8isa1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archeocomp Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Thanks. What is your memory size? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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