Matthew Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 It was $75. Not sure what you mean by this. ..Al US $75 == AUD $104.42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Andrew Davie Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Reading Davie's statement I understand what you are saying, but reading his last sentence I can also see how someone might take it as a sense of frustration or bitterness that it took so long to sell the remaining unsold copies. In any case...H2O under the bridge. It is what it is....time to move on. Thanks to all that responded. FSS and Thomas, Albert and I negotiated a one-off run of 250 copies. We sold those copies with the explicit indication to purchasers that that was all there were ever going to be. 250 copies. Despite that, it was on sale for over a year - so there was not significant demand at the price point we had to set. But they did all sell, and the number 250 was in hindsight nearly perfect to match price against demand. While FSS might in principle be willing to release more, we have all agreed that sticking to our word is really important, and that people who purchased with the understanding that there would not be a re-release would be justifiably miffed. So, there will not be another release, and there is not any bitterness. Copies show up occasionally; when you find one and buy it, do so with the knowledge that your purchase won't be diminished at some point in time by a cheaper re-release. Still, in my opinion, an amazing achievement for an unadorned (other than memory) '2600 cartridge. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amstari Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 US $75 == AUD $104.42 The Australian dollar was higher than the US dollar when I got Boulder Dash. It was about AUD$70. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tremoloman2006 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 When this game was released, $75 was a high price for an Atari 2600 title as most in the AA store were $20-$35. With the going price of games being released CIB now for $50, I'm sure this would have sold a lot quicker. I'm just glad I got my copy when I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Ninja Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Having completely missed the boat on Boulder Dash, (I didn't even have a 2600 when it was released) I am wondering if there will ever be a re-issue So do I! If any developers of Boulder Dash for the 2600 monitor this thread, here's hoping you can work out a (new?) deal with First Star. Perhaps gauging interest in a new thread or a poll would be a good start? Edited November 21, 2015 by McFlurrry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 So do I! If any developers of Boulder Dash for the 2600 monitor this thread, here's hoping you can work out a (new?) deal with First Star. Perhaps gauging interest in a new thread or a poll would be a good start? I think Andrew pretty much stated everything that needs to be said about a new run. Like I said, a non IP infringing BoulderDash type game can be made. You just have to decide whether you want a new BoulderDash type game or if you want to play the same exact game strictly for nostalgia. I'd rather play a new game with new levels, personally. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Even that's not possible. The game mechanics are also part of BD, so they only thing that can be reused is the game engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Even that's not possible. The game mechanics are also part of BD, so they only thing that can be reused is the game engine. You cannot really legally protect game mechanics, so you could make a Boulder Dash-like game with different graphics. If I was going to use the Boulder Dash engine, though, I'd make the game different enough so it's not just a Boulder Dash clone. ..Al 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Probably you are right, I am not into legal issues at all. BTW: If people really want another run of BD, may they should come together and try to change FSS's mind themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r_type2600 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 How about Boulder Dash II ? Would give the ones who missed out with the first their chance to grab a physical Boulder Dash cart, yet still attract a lot of buyers since it would be an all new game. That shall justify a large enough production run (eventually larger than for the first) to cover the licensing costs... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 There were plans for doing BD II, but now Andrew has left the scene. And I am not prepared to do it on my own. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maiki Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I want a smooth side-scrolling BD... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Ninja Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) There were plans for doing BD II, but now Andrew has left the scene. And I am not prepared to do it on my own. Then let's get Andrew back - Boulder Dash 2 for the Atari 2600 is an awesome idea! Is he on AtariAge, Twitter or any of the other popular social networks/fora? Edited December 13, 2015 by McFlurrry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 He won't react to any pressure. Just give him time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 I like my copy! Was a quality release where no one had to camp out and buy the second it came on sale. There are tons of games I missed because I never was back into buying atari at the time. I never expect them to go on sale again. It shows how awesome this game is for people to keep asking. Just take it as a compliment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Hierophant Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) My view on this is that when First Star Software was initially approached, they were probably somewhat amused though not particularly floored by the amount of money they would acquire by giving permission to use the property. Say that it received a $25 royalty on each cartridge sold (based on an AtariAge sales price of $75) they would have netted $6,250 for itself. Moreover, it may have had to wait upwards of a year for the money paid to them. More likely the publicity for making it available on one of the most popular retro platforms of all time was as valuable as the income generated. There really would not be much in the way of extra publicity from a reprint. How many new copies would there be for a reprint? 100 seems to be the maximum amount that would likely be sold at the $75 price, based on the demand for a reprint edition. Let us consider a gamer who bought one of the first 250 and becomes upset because now there are more out there. What is he going to do? Is he going to boycott buying future products from Andrew Davie and Thomas Jentzsch? Unlikely unless he wants to shut himself off from a future great game. Someone else will take his spot in their sales list. So, having sold a "reprint edition" what is the buyer of the original edition going to do? Is he going to sue Andrew Davie and Thomas Jentzsch for breaching a sales contract by allegedly "breaking their word never to release more Boulder Dash cartridges"? Companies release "limited editions" followed by "standard editions", "collector's editions", "game of the year editions", "reprint editions", you name it. This buyer is going to have a hard time arguing that he reasonably relied on the representations that there would never be more copies released of this game. Those representations would have to be pretty explicit and made prior to the sale, not years after the fact. After all, the buyer is buying the right to use software contained in a cartridge, not a collectible One wonders if you can have a claim to buy an instant collectible. Moreover, First Star Software could conceivably make its own 2600 Boulder Dash cartridges or Andrew Davie and Thomas Jentzsch or someone else could release the ROM. What would his damages be? He may take the position that by releasing more cartridges, it decreases the resale value of his own cartridge. Of course adding 100 more reprint edition cartridges to the market is unlikely to have any more than a short-term effect on the resale prices, so by the time he gets around to litigating the issue, his claim is moot. Edited December 21, 2015 by Great Hierophant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 My view on this is that when First Star Software was initially approached, they were probably somewhat amused though not particularly floored by the amount of money they would acquire by giving permission to use the property. Say that it received a $25 royalty on each cartridge sold (based on an AtariAge sales price of $75) they would have netted $6,250 for itself. Moreover, it may have had to wait upwards of a year for the money paid to them. More likely the publicity for making it available on one of the most popular retro platforms of all time was as valuable as the income generated. There really would not be much in the way of extra publicity from a reprint. How many new copies would there be for a reprint? 100 seems to be the maximum amount that would likely be sold at the $75 price, based on the demand for a reprint edition. Let us consider a gamer who bought one of the first 250 and becomes upset because now there are more out there. What is he going to do? Is he going to boycott buying future products from Andrew Davie and Thomas Jentzsch? Unlikely unless he wants to shut himself off from a future great game. Someone else will take his spot in their sales list. So, having sold a "reprint edition" what is the buyer of the original edition going to do? Is he going to sue Andrew Davie and Thomas Jentzsch for breaching a sales contract by allegedly "breaking their word never to release more Boulder Dash cartridges"? Companies release "limited editions" followed by "standard editions", "collector's editions", "game of the year editions", "reprint editions", you name it. This buyer is going to have a hard time arguing that he reasonably relied on the representations that there would never be more copies released of this game. Those representations would have to be pretty explicit and made prior to the sale, not years after the fact. After all, the buyer is buying the right to use software contained in a cartridge, not a collectible One wonders if you can have a claim to buy an instant collectible. Moreover, First Star Software could conceivably make its own 2600 Boulder Dash cartridges or Andrew Davie and Thomas Jentzsch or someone else could release the ROM. What would his damages be? He may take the position that by releasing more cartridges, it decreases the resale value of his own cartridge. Of course adding 100 more reprint edition cartridges to the market is unlikely to have any more than a short-term effect on the resale prices, so by the time he gets around to litigating the issue, his claim is moot. I really hate limited edition homebrew stuff. If I buy limited edition X out of Y so i can actually play it, and then the original maker reissues a regular edition, I'm happy that others can enjoy it. In fact if the LE is worth so much more on the collector's market, I'll sometimes actually sell my LE copy to buy the RE and pocket the difference. If you're gonna play keep away, then at least release the ROM. My two cents... For the record, I understand that Boulderdash was a special circumstance and was limited to 250 copies per contract. Generally however, release once and gone forever is just bad for gamers in general. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Hierophant Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 The limited numbers is a function of the contract between the programmers of Boulder Dash and First Star Software, not the programmers and the buyers of the cartridge. There is nothing to prevent First Star Software from authorizing more cartridges, but I wonder if there is enough reason for it to do so. Similarly, I hold in contempt the attitudes that "I bought this so I could enjoy something that few others can" and "I bought this item so I could resell it for maximum dollar when the market is ripe" and would not take them into consideration if contemplating a reprint edition of a game. Of course I would make sure to distinguish the re-release from the original release. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinroh Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) Good info here. Just for the record (for the sake of gaging interest) I'd throw in, that I'd throw down for a re-issue cart. If it were ever to happen. Edited December 21, 2015 by Jinroh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) FSS are very careful with their license. Of course we asked for extra copies when there was demand and they disagreed because the buyers of a limited release might be annoyed (and I am sure you will always find someone who is). And for the 2nd demo, we asked for using two other levels, but they disagreed for the same reason. Edited December 21, 2015 by Thomas Jentzsch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I think who would be annoyed is people that paid hundreds to buy later. I am not one of them but their investment would drop considerably. The only answer would be to throw down 500 bucks a game or whatever market value is then everyone would be happy. No wait then people would not pay that. Or would they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Hierophant Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 An interesting view for FSS to take, given that they did not program the game, build the cartridges or operate the store that sold the game. They do not even mention the Atari or Intellivision cartridge releases on their Boulder Dash page : http://www.firststarsoftware.com/boulderdash.htm All they appear to have supplied was a marketing license. They have no liability to the buyers of the limited edition. Nor does the second purchaser have a right against anybody if more cartridges are made. By limiting the number of cartridges, they allow people on the resale market to make larger sales from which they do not receive a penny. However, when your only asset comprise intellectual property rights of nostalgic games, there is reason to take care of these properties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaxda Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I'll have to check, but I could have sworn I have a FSS release of Boulder Dash this AND an AtariAge one. Was the FSS one unlimited or am I misremembering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiu Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 ... I seriously want this game now, but I think I only want it because I know it won't ever be released again.Plus, I don't actually have an Atari 2600 to play it on. Or a TV that I could even connect an Atari 2600 to if I had one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) ... I seriously want this game now, but I think I only want it because I know it won't ever be released again. Plus, I don't actually have an Atari 2600 to play it on. Or a TV that I could even connect an Atari 2600 to if I had one. Don't think about it and you won't want it. Don't let the collectard mentality fog your brain. So-called "collectors" have wrecked the hobby for thousands upon thousands of gamers with all this hoarding stuff. Not only that, but they try and create a desire in your head in hopes that you will pay them money to get what they have. I maintain zero respect for such activity. Zero respect for artificial scarcity. All it does is create dissension in the ranks and makes one feel empty. Whether it be classic cars or videogames and comics. The only time I have respect for a rare limited edition is when the rarity is naturally created by time and attrition. When no intent of artificial scarcity was envisioned during production. From a practical gamer's point of view, just seek out a copy for one of the 8-bit computers, C64 or 400/800. Even the Apple II version is nicely executed. I consider myself above the want for BD VCS because the first time I played the game it was on the Apple II and Atari 800. And therefore that is the memory which brings back the good times. Good times cannot be associated with any price. A good judge of value of a "collector's item" is when someone who is totally not into the scene or hobby comments and says that's a nice thing. And then later some months down the road tells someone else so and so has this cool thing come check it out! Does that happen with individual niche video game carts? I think not. It appears to be collector vs. collector when it comes to limited editions. And when the outside person wants to join in but can't it creates unease and tension. Something a hobby and leisure pursuit shouldn't do. So like I said in the beginning don't bunch your panties over it. Unrelated example: There are people paying thousands upon thousands of dollars to acquire the first run of Apple II computers. For what? You get the precise exact same experience by buying one of the later run consoles for much much cheaper. In fact you can get more by going with one of these "plus" models. Not to mention the first "II only" models are appearing more and more frequently on ebay, so they're not that rare to begin with. Thousands upon thousands were made. Anyhow - I get the same positive comments about the Apple II as I do the II+ or //e. Edited December 23, 2015 by Keatah 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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